Microsoft just can't win in the EU browser row

Of course somebody has to nitpick everything Microsoft does. Do you actually think Microsoft is inspired to be fair or more likely just comply what their lawyers say is the minimum acceptable? It's never a level playing field unless Google makes their own operating system, just like Intel & AMD. AMD is keepin Intel honest much like the EU is keeping Microsoft honest.

Enjoy!

Quote:

If you chose another browser as a 'default', the IE logo or 'shortcut' still remains unchanged on the desktop and the logo of any alternative browser the user has selected does not replace this.

___________

That is a no-go and very much the M$ way. Its the risk that M$ takes and world+dog currently awaits the Word salesban saga there is another one brewing.

The ppl in Bruxelles are not trivial on this; If they ban curved cucumbers for a seison they really can and will kick the whole Redmond softwarecompany out of business for a while and a shortcut, replace it with something else (tm) or advice a pen and paper.

EU lawmakers are not the ones where you want to kid around with; M$ is in the red zone now, and they need to get out. fast.

What a surprise. Mozilla start making comments like Opera and there's no flood of hate mail.

In fact, instead of comments like "Cut the crap or die Opera" we now have the same thing being directed at MS themselves!

And to think people make fun of Apple's disciples.

The article comes from the wrong standpoint - its clear that Microsoft is trying to pull a fast one again. If there is required functionality missing from Firefox then Microsoft need to publish proper spec's so that the Firefox people can either implement it or shut up!!!

It's up to Microsoft and it followers to stop winging and move on.

MS itself tried to get away with offering the OS without any browser at all. So, it is not absolutely needed. Also, The possibility of Windows without IE was demonstrated in a court case some time ago. The 'offer' MS made was designed to make it helpful to opt for IE, if I remember correctly

just beacuse some cheeze at Mozarella is saying something doesn't mean the EU will automatically listen and bar MS from Europe. It is extremely unlikely the EU will do anything, the case is closed. But I agree that the EU should ban Apple.

"Internet Exploder"

Another nuetral article again and no Microsoft will never make the EU happy because the EU wants to keep making money from this whole thing

Speaking of monopolists, don't forget about big glue: they hold a monopoly in the mainframe market (small number of machines, but they cost much more than a PC), since they sell the hardware, the software and the operating system. Last time I checked Z/Os not open source, it's not that interoperable and costs more if you decide to run it on non IBM hardware.
Still, no one complains, no one investigates....

...nothing will change. A couple billion in fines is the price of doing business for Microsucks. They generate hundreds of Billions in revenue from violation of anti-trust laws, so anything short of a Euro 500 Billion fine don't mean anything to them.

I demand that Toyota quit putting their Chrome product name on the rear of my new Camry's.
I want it to display the "FORD" logo (icon).
What a load of rubbish this argument is.
Get real or buy some other OS if you don't like MS.
Short cuts and Icons can be changed. If you can't figure out how to do that, you don't deserve a computer.

MS should go back there there original plan of selling W7 with no browsers at all and stick it up the EU's ****. (or included it and double the price to pay for the upcomming fine) What a bunch of idiots all this crap over Web Browsers, which are freely downloade from any of the providers, and are did I say FREE. It is not like any of the browsers are loosing money on there FREE browsers. I guess they needed someone to help them out of the resession. (and I am not from the US or the EU)

So when you get an apple OS what browsers do you get with that? Just safari I think. If that is so are they going to have to offer other options too?
I know most version of linux offers two.
Thoughts people?

My thoughts about this whole topic are quite simple - EU, and their lawyers have no idea what they are doing in the first place.
Acting as a monopoly is bad of course, but we have to get down to basics here anyway, which is:

Microsoft is a business, and operating systems are their lifeblood, and also so it happens, their intellectual property. If EU keeps up with trying to 'regulate' what Microsoft is doing with their OS, then the next steps that could happen(seemingly as ridiculous as the "browser wars") are I guess quite natural to follow:

- Apple gets hit by X amount of $ for only including Safari
- Linux gets hit by X amount for not supporting software designed for Windows(yes, it is that ridiculous)
- AMD gets hit by X amount for only making processors for their own sockets
- Intel gets hit by X amount for only making processors for their own sockets
- AMD gets hit for only releasing AMD Overdrive that works on AMD hardware only
- Intel and AMD get both hit for not giving out their own work on X86, aka the X86 license for free
- AMD and Nvidia both get hit for X amount for only letting crossfire/sli work on their own hardware
- X gets hit for X amount for not doing what EU lawyers think is right.

Basically, what I mean is that the whole topic is totally senseless. As long as the whole economy is based on money, nothing will change and companies who are doing great will do all they can to continue to do so.
If that is not changed, which for various reasons is very difficult, not to say impossible, to change, only things that change are more fines and more idiocy.

Something of a rant for sure, but I wanted to make my point about the ridiculousness of the whole topic clear :)

Turn about is fair play. For once, Microsoft is finding what it feels like to be in a situation to which their customers are all to accustom.

It is quite funny reading about all this. EU obviously wants a piece of the MS profits as do all the other companies. If I were MS I'd tell the EU Go f themselves. MS should stop selling and supporting OS's etc in the EU. See how that shafts everyone when they need to change the way they do things give me some linux please lol or some apple os lol. Nice cost & time & money implications there. Oh yeah and maybe ms could shed a few jobs in the process. (yes I know this isnt a real option too). But would be fun to see.

These would be the computers that Europe invented.
Since the last war the US has been dependent on Western Allies and most people see its troops as the Cannon fodder of more civilised nations. (Never get in front of American troops they shoot a lot of bullets at everything that moves and do more damage to themselves and their allies than anyone else). The first world war the US didnt really show up for... and the second they only managed to make an appearance when they realised that the Russians would win the war and would make most of Europe communist.

Microsoft dosn't spend so much effort to RIP You Off for Nothing. Take Media Player once commentos'd that inside media property, about two brances, are page, Microsoft owns copyright of everything YOU Play in Your Media Center. AS NOTHING IS COPYRIGHTABLE IF DIGITALLY TRANSMITTED.

You can undo default & open copyright to Yourselves, Microsoft IS FULL of BAD tricks, Activation among Few.

On IE browser thats leads to hotmail,plus Live, Once IE is Corrupted, BE Prepared with SEAMONKEY already installed, other Tough Warrior PaPuose' is MAXTHON. Which after getting ripped off by Microsoft now makes part Mozilla hybreid.

Other rowsers ar wonderful for specific content, yet No Others will WIN war.

Remember, Volee' knows Your Every View, Knows Your every move(time), Knows Your weaknesses & LOVES TO TAKE PEOPLES-EVERYTHING.

Thats Why: King of Scotland,U.K. Ordered Lawful WAR Upon Microsoft, thru Subsidiary Property($Euro$) E.U.

DRASHEK

you have no clue about doing business, right?

Wargo..You seem to be obsessed with posteriors & NO, we are not ALL gay,that honour belongs to your country,
although Blair tried his level best to correct that anomoly.
Seeing as aids was primarily an American issue,need I say more?
Anyway,I don't care if everyone else is gay,I'm not & they don't bother me & I don't bother them,anyway, we ALL have one common feature ARSEHOLES to you.

"I don't know why the hell we (U.S.) gave you monkeys computers to play with anyway"

OMG, Fire em up baby. ROFLMAO!

Oh God....I'm crampping.

Time to Start a War for regime change.
I mean, what good is a genuine advantage if you carnt put it to use?

Great Rant Nick.

a) IE *is* a reasonably intrinsic part of the OS. Yes, they can remove the browser application, but the SHDOCVW library is needed by various other apps in the OS for rendering, and needs to be provided in order for some third party apps that use it.

b) If firefox was any good, i'd still use it. Personally I've switched to chrome because i was sick of the pregnant pausing, the 'we've made an update that will kill all your plugins' every month, and the disk thrashing enough to wake up my neighbours.

c) Would people that can't spell and/or construct a sentence please refrain from commenting in future. Thanks in advance.

They got fined, they paid their fines, whatever. The are playing by your rules and still you'll find something to ding them about because you can't get over the fact that they are profitable and not European.

The simple fact is that EU countries are not satisfied with taxing their own citizens at ~70% so they need to tax American companies as well.

Next OS X will be required to remove and Ipods/Iphones will need to have compatibility with Zune and IE mobile browsers.

It was 1994 and Microsoft tried to launch MSN. The pages had to be written in C. The content publishers had to pay MS to have their stuff published. The surfer had to pay MS to see the pages. Meanwhile, the World Wide Web was free for everybody. Guess why MSN did not work?
To get their revenge, MS produced Internet Explorer to throw a spanner in the Interweb and did succeed to some degree as it gave everyone who dared to use this cheap, non-Microsoft abomination, severe problems - and still does. The sooner Microsoft goes tits-up, the better for everyone!

Can't they just provide a working FTP link on the desktop where they just put all the different browsers, it's easy to update or add any new browsers.

This is also cheaper than providing a CD with browser (like you get a CD width drivers)

"Apparently Internet Exploder will continue to be used elsewhere in the Vole's latest operating system, including on the desktop and the taskbar. Well, yes, it is an intrinsic part of the OS."
Wasn't Microsoft required by the US Justice Department to separate IE from the operating system about 10 years ago?
If Mac OS X and Linux can have Web browsers that are not woven into the operating system, why can't Microsoft???

When is the inquirer ever going to get rid of this fool once again he shows his love for the almighty Vole how dare the EU pick on poor little Microsoft who has never done anything wrong. Nick even manages to get a dig in Apple long live the mighty Vole.

If EU keeps up this game to try and kill MS, it will end up killing the IT industry full stop. What about all the 3rd party software developers that rely on MS products for their livelyhoods? Contractors, SW companies, web developers etc. And how many businesses will be able to afford to roll out completely new IT infrasctructre if MS is killed? The EU needs to see the bigger picture here before it does some serious damage. If I were MS, I would withdraw all OS licenses from the EU courts and every EU government department. Then see what happens!

It's been a while but every OS I have ever installed came with a browser so what is the big deal. Apple = Safari, Gnome = Epiphany, Kde = Konqueror so is it related to these browsers being a distribution. All I know is it's one bad smell to stick it to Microsoft when others are left alone.

What Microsoft should do is create Internet Explorer for Linux, Macs and other OSes and get the EC to force them to include a "level playing field" as well, because obviously it's not happening now even with alternative browsers.

Or is the criteria just that a company has to be big and have big pockets for the EC to care?

Seriously, the EU need to shut their traps and go sulk in a corner, the average punter isnt gonna give a shit, when it comes to the installation they're gonna see a list and go "OH!, Internet Explorer, I know that one" *click* and that will be it. System builders (like myself) dont want to have to ask customers which web browser do you want when the average joe is just gonna say "You mean like Internet Explorer?"

If they're gonna pick on MS for including IE then they should be picking on Apple with Safari. Apple shouldnt be allowed to force users to use itunes (which sucks to all hell anyway)

Mannnn.........., there's some really stupid people here!

The DOJ and the EU don't give a shit what browser you use, or what comes bundled in Windows.

The fact that the frickin browser is welded to the OS, and cannot be removed without breaking the OS is the issue.
Try it, I dare you!

The whole point is, you couldn't get rid of IE even if you wanted too, it's permanent, you're locked into IE, period!

On any other OS, you can add and remove whatever applications/programs you want, not so with M$.

All praise Microshaft.

Microsoft have repeatedly been found to break the law, and beyond that widely abuse their monopoly position to crush competition via sharp business deals.

They have thrown many of thier the billions trying to steal the console market for example.

If you are trying to get my sympathy for Microsoft, you are surely joking.

Let´s get this straight from the start. I don´t like MS. Anyone with a historey book knows why. They railed against Big Blue in the `70s & 80s and got us to favor their ( MSdos)vs over PCdos. And later lame versions of WIndows even superior OS-2. Can you even now with Vista, or WIn 7, format disks and download from the net, and tell your software it has a older version so it can run optimally.. Umm, NO!)THAT is putting your PC to WORK. Relevance to THIS?? Sure MShaft, er MSoft CAN have a seperate browser ( minimum OS footprint, too) take care of internal housekeeping. Take a gander at Linux. ALL versions. OR Unix. OR PC-BSD/OpenBSD/. I run PC-BSD a BSD variant, and Ultimate Edition, an Ubuntu Variant. BOTH have their OWN system browsers as well as FireFox, or Firefox and easy provisions for getting Opera in PC-BSD´s case. AND consume less system resources than this MS crap! Difference, they WANT to. FURTHER it was proved in US´ COURT ( public RECORDS) that MS did this on purpose. They are STUBBORN. BRILLIANT. EGOTISTIC BULLIES. Believe it! This is WELL documented. This goes to show Motive. as well as INTENT!

Why should MS win? The people should win, not some corporation.

The EU is a corporation. That money they take from microsoft won't go to help their competitors, it goes to whatever the EU wants and helps pay all their salaries.

Don't kid yourself.

Microsoft wants you to use IE. No question. But they should, it's their product. I think it's totally unreasonable to require them to offer a competitive product in the box. Maybe that's better for the consumer, but it's still unreasonable.

Think about the company you work for, whatever it is, after you make a sale do you offer your customers your competitors products? That is not how the business world works. This kind of irresponsible government behavior is a threat to the global economy and capitalism. Who's next? they already hit intel. And if this works for the EU, who's next? Who else needs to pay the government 'Protection Money'.... There's lots of struggling countries who could use a cash infusion in the guise of protecting consumers...

Besides, have you used firefox lately? It's so slow and bloated these days... and your plugins need updates like crazy.

And chrome is ok, but if we all use that then we might as well just give the internet to google. Letting one company control the entire internet is a bit scary.

Anyhow, that's my rant.

The Computer went from Europe to the US - we should have kept it secret. Most of the critical early work was done in the UK before the US entered WWII.

One monopoly to another. Haha. Go EU, show this pesky company we won't stand for their malpractices.

MS deserve it.

If IE was any good, that is, standards compliant then all this wouldn't benefit the consumer.

However since MS arrogantly ignore standards becuase of their monopoloy, we've had situations where the "non-standard" is more widespread than the standard. A pain for web developers no doubt.

This company merely exists because IBM were desperate back in the day.

As for arguments against say Apple/Safari etc, firstly they are not mainstream, and people who buy Apple products buy it for the brand.

With PCs, perhaps you have a preference for a particular vendor and the MS junk is thrown in the mix, whether you like it or not.

And as for Google, sure its dominant, however I have a *choice* I could use their services or the junk that is Bing (haha, what a pathetic rebrand).

Got half way through the comments then wrote this so someone else may have made these points already.

Apple v MS - it's a size thing. Remarks about how Apple are allowed to include only Safari are missing the point.
Apple doesn't provide 98% of corporate desktop OS's. If they did, you can believe that the same stink would be being made.
Microsoft are one of the most retarded, childish, uncooperative companies ever. The easiest thing would have been to allow Opera and Mozilla to include the setup.exe's on the desktop - problem solved. Most people probably would have done nothing more than delete them. By playing this retarded game of lie, spin and stupid posturing they attract the wrath of the EU and deservedly so. They are behaving like those hideous spoiled brats you see on American TV having their "sweet 16 party".

The worst of it is - if they bothered to design IE and Windows properly none of this would be happening, but, as we all now know, every iteration of Windows has to have a long red carpet and numerous points of entry for the Mafia and the NSA. And every iteration of Windows must be built on the same, obviously flawed, "security model". All those billions they took in revenue? Spent it all on "getting away with" being crooks, instead of aiming for world class products.

It sure as hell didn't happen by accident, did it? There's no reason on any platform for the OS and the browser to be so tightly tied together that removing it completely would break the OS. The browser should be just another application like any other.

The reason the browser is an intrinsic part of the OS is because Microsoft deliberately engineered it that way in order to leverage its position as market leader in operating systems to make itself market leader in browsers. Remember Netscape? Once 80% or more of browsers out there were a flavour of Navigator. Now it's a piece of history. I wonder why?

We all know you're in Microsoft's pocket Nick, but please at least TRY to not be so obvious about it.

I feel so cheap and dirty.

Kris, you've clearly missed the point of the EU action, your post falls over in the second paragraph.

LMAO, you're an idiot, I'd explain why but clearly you wouldn't understand.