SSDs and Linux are dropping out of fashion

The windows ecosystem is amazingly diverse and today even ordinary people are proficient and indeed use many windows apps. There is a reality distortion field coming from the .com crowd that says 'everything through the web' but that's not happening and will not happen no matter how much they polish it.

SSD are still very expensive. They don't make sense in netbooks, which are purchased mainly for their low price. Right now, SSDs only make sense as system+apps drives for enthusiasts, or for very specific enterprise stuff.

I've been getting trolled on plenty of forums, because everytime I try to run Linux, I fail. When it's not a driver problem, it a software problem, and the ergonomics and documentation of the whole thing is really weak. Too bad nobody does marketing for Linux: it badly needs an XP look-alike distro, so that users trying to switch are not put off right from the start. On Netbooks, and preinstalled, I assume drivers are not the issue... Apart from the different (and usually, worse) ergonomy, maybe people miss their games, too ?

as oliver said, if linux can't just run out the box, no one but a geek is going to bother with command line instructions to TRY and get an audio driver to work.

i know, i want to use linux but, i'm not going to waste my time figuring out driver glitches....

I can't remember the last time I had to use command line on Linux.

But unlike the command line in Windows, a Linux command line can actually do stuff.

Yes, most of the Linux worries come from the fact that Windows is so established. A lot of app and game developers, as well as hardware shops, don't want to give equal attention to two different platforms.

The new powershell command line for windows is very powerful and is puts windows commandline in the same league as Linux.

I'm of the opinion that Microsoft are actually moving in the right direction, developments like .net (actually writen by real programmers, Borland I heard) and powershell(created for those who wanted a powerful, bash - like commandline).

It just seems so passe and 2003 to slate Microsoft without considering the advances they've made in the last few years.

Saying that, I'm not excusing them for the countless IT evils they perpetrated previously. And don't mention the Vista user experience that sank a decent OS...

Linux is certainly not fragile, running the backbone of the Internet as it does, along with many corporate data servers and most supercomputers in the world.

I feel you really have to take negative comments re: Linux with a large grain of salt: who is the main competitor to Linux? Who is one of the richest companies in the world, with the cash to actually pay "bloggers" to post negative comments about Linux and open source? Who has the cash to strong-arm computer companies (producing netbooks) to "only" offer Windows?

I personally do not like being controlled (or bilked for cash) by a large mega-corporation like Microsoft, so I and my family choose to use Linux (and have done so without any problems for the past 7 years). Our school district (in Canada) has similarly only run Linux for the past 6 years (and saved a ton on software, hardware, and maintenance). The teachers and students find it easy to use, very stable, and virus-proof to boot (http://www.sd73.bc.ca/district-operations.php/page/linux-in-education/ ).

For beginners, I would suggest Ubuntu as a user-friendly distribution (free download from http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download ). We currently use OpenSuse 11.1 (KDE 4.3)...the new KDE desktop is nothing short of astounding (makes Windows 7 look like a kludge). EEEbuntu is a really good distro for netbooks (my daughter loves it) (http://www.eeebuntu.org/index.php?page=standard).

I don't know where you've been but it's been a long time since that's been true! Windows is still fragile compared to Linux, certainly. I've found that at both the desktop and server level.

I don't think I've ever had a Linux crash, but I've often had Windows crashes and "strange" things happening.

I can't comment on the netbook level as I've never used either OS on those kind of machines.

The Linux distro installed on the Acer machines was ridiculous fragile. I broke mine trying to upgrade Firefox. I installed Ubuntu and it's been fine(and up to date) since.

No wonder people think it's fragile if the OEMs put such garbage on them.

I'm not surprised you've been getting a bit of stick for "failing" to run linux.

My 10yo daughter has one of the Aspire One netbooks with linux and she has not problem at all using it. She's not even aware she's not running windows.

I'm *sure* you're not as computer illiterate as her?

the linux distros they used weren't very pretty plus vendors couldn't add the good packages due to licensing issues. I'm not sure how moblin will change the scene when it is finally polished and ready but ubuntu now has a very nice netbook distro all polished up and ready for arm. The only problem for end users with this distro will be learning how to add medibuntu to the software sources which can be done in 3-4 clicks but then, end users aren't too bright.

But it's perceived as more fragile. When Windows breaks, the user usually has someone to turn to. When Linux breaks, an average person doesn't have anyone who can help them with their problem. Despite its power, the command line turns off just about any normal user. Even if they don't know what they're doing 3/4 the time, Windows works because the entire administration can be done via a GUI. The said cannot be said for Linux. Need to disable a device driver? Command line. Need to set up a firewall out of the box? Command line. It's slowly getting better, but as long as Windows shields users away from the internal workings of the system, and as long as it provides a GUI first configuration system, it will dominate.

(And before I get flamed, I run a Microsoft-free household. I run Ubuntu on all 8 PCs/Laptops in our house, and have been all Linux for 8 years.)

Linux has bugs just like every piece of software. Denying this and treating everybody who reports problems as a Microsoft agent does not encourage people to try Linux, in fact it does the opposite.

Speaking for myself, I am encouraged by the work of Canonical to rein in the insanity (thank god the number of screen-savers has started coming down) and provide a more consistent experience. The last version of Ubuntu I tried was a huge improvement and my 3G modem actually worked better than it did on Windows.

In the end I gave up (as I always do) because I hit a problem that no amount of xterm hacking seemed to fix. Close but no cigar yet.

Hopefully, Google will do better by getting the OEMs to do the integration.

PS: I can't remember the last time I needed to use the windows command line to install hardware either. Until xterm can be removed, linux is not ready for primetime.

I don't know numbers on this, but to average consumers (and i'm going to go out on a limb and say most of which don't read The INQ) when they see something that looks like a computer, they expect Windows and to a lesser extent OSX if it's shiny or white.

Sure the linux may be similar, and probably even faster or easier to use, but it's just not what they expect and people freak out. It's a sad thing, I know, but familiarity sells.

Or perhaps that every piece of hardware out there comes with windows drivers by default?

I'm completely surprised how a modern linux distribution takes care of most drivers and work out of the box for most stuff but gets stumped with those pieces of hardware for which there are no drivers.

All the propietary driver problem makes it even worse (because those can't be legally included in the distro) and then you have to hunt for someone that made an open driver for his distribution/kernel and pray for it to work on yours.

To me that's the biggest stumbling block. Once drivers have a central repository that can be accessed easily from a GUI, perhaps the adoption will be better for Joe User who only needs to browse, email and IM.

What can I say.. I'm indeed pretty good at Windows XP, so solving minor glitches is no problem for me, while I can't do it in Linux.

I tried again to install it a few months ago, Ubuntu, on a i815-chipset PC, with no extension card whatsoever, and which was running XP perfectly. I never got to the GNOME desktop: the screen was either grey or multicolored "snow"... I tried asking for help, was told the i815 is too old, then that it was working perfectly for everyone else...left it at that, after a handful of hours trying to find or get help.

I'd really like to get rid of MS. I even tried to get recommendations about what to buy for the PC I'm going to build soon (is AMD 780G OK ? Will I get sound over HDMI ?...) and got no answer.

Linux or otherwise, Its DAMMIT Next processor in Deneb Family. 965:

Phenom II X4 965. Motherboard manufacturer ASRock already list the processor in it’s supported list of CPU’s. It confirms for us that it is indeed the Black Edition HDZ965FBK4DGI (BE) and will come with:

2MB L2 Cache
6MB L3 Cache
45nm fabrication process
This is the standard for all of the latest CPU’s from manufacturer AMD.

Rumors are telling us that have it that AMD should be releasing this processor next week, with the hope in consumers eyes that it will be the same launch price that it’s predecessor (The 955) was.

ASRock, Get those Hot ASRock MaMaBoards While their HOT.

vondrashek

Don't feel bad, the reality is your're not alone. I have many computers running linux 24/7, and have had for years... and man have I had my share of problems :-), but I'm a software developer and use the command line all the time. When I buy computers to put linux on them I do some quick research to make sure it should work, and have learned to stick to safe combinations. aka no technology newer than 6 months-1 year, no graphics cards older than 3 years old, and stick with intel chipsets unless you know what you're doing.

You really have to research any add on cards, that includes firewire, wireless cards, sound cards, raid controllers, etc, printers... There are lots supported, but there are lots that aren't, so plan ahead or prepare to be dissappointed.

You also might want to avoid running the latest version of fedora or ubuntu until it has been out for a few months at least. It takes nvidia and ati a couple months generally to have working stable drivers on the latest kernels that these use, and because they have set rigid release dates these distro's ship with problems and beta quality packages sometimes that waiting a few months tends to iron out.

I have had way more obscure and difficult problems with amd systems (system clock is too fast, random i/o erros, x server problems) than intel ones so be warned. The price is basically the same these days so if you want the most pain free experience I'd go intel cpu + intel chipset.

And for software - much of the best software available for linux is also available for windows, so try open office, gimp, apache, mysql, firefox, thunderbird etc out on windows first. Make sure these apps are good enough for you and that you know how to use them before you switch. If you have to learn all new apps and a new os at the same time you're probably going to get frustrated and blame linux where maybe should blame open office etc.

Anyways, hopefully this advice is helpful to people :-). Once linux is up and running it works really well, and if you're hardware is all compatible, installing linux is quicker and easier than windows.

The Linux Dudes have to wake up the User Interface Revolution or should i say revolt....

When windows first launched it captured the users with its USER INTERFACE that is "easy of use"...

When iPhone launched it captured the users with its USER INTERFACE that is "easy of use"...

What is the purpose of LINUX anyway ?
That should be the Question that the linux community answer when working on the next release......

The usual Question is "do you want a free product?" Ans:"Here is great one. Get ready to sweat !"

The fact in short is linux is the most-benevolent. not omniscient... not at all...

Remove the Command line from linux....replace 90% of everything as a menu...just like the fast food menu display...everything will speak for itself...

SSDs... they are here to stay...both for the trained and the otherwise...

I have a number of PCs that have at one point or another had Linux installed on them, and the success ranges from barely working to wouldnt even install, the only time ive ever got it working is as a virtual PC running in windows

That is the problem with Linux, and yes my 3 year old can use a computer, but i know he cant install the OS and configure it so im pretty sure saying useing linux is childs play is meaningless, im sure it is IF you can get it working right in the first place.

Linux is doomed as is Googles OS, tho at least Linux has its place in the server fields. Windows Works, it does what people expect it too, they know they can use this PC and move to a different one and it too will be more or less the same and will also work, they know they can plug a camera in, or printer and it too will be very straight forward to work.

Linux has none of that.

Everyone whining here about linux is missing a very important difference.
You won't have to install it if it comes pre-installed. No driver issues either if the hardware vendor provides them. Your all talking about trying to install linux on some PC you have. This is not the same thing. Get a grip here. Linux works fine if installed correctly. You can get by perfectly fine without ever using the "scary" command line. My mac has an xterm, having the option makes the computer no less easy to use. For a netbook its fine. You don't for one minute believe there hasn't been intense pressure on manufacturers. These companies make desktop computers too, all they have to do is raise the price on the OS those. I just spent most of a day removing that piece of crap called vista, from my employers computer. I installed XP, reinstalled all the apps and went through driver issues of my own because the laptop is new. It had him ready to throw it in the trash, the list of problems was long. Meanwhile his entire company depends on linux servers 24/7. And most of the staff has been switching to Macs, a process started about 4 years ago. Anyone who uses a tivo or linksys wireless is using linux. Any one who has played video arcade games has probably used linux. Get a clue, the problem isn't linux itself. The problem is either, manufacturers, the distro provider, or you!

I set up my firewall using a gui. There are programs for linux that does that. Remove or change a device driver ? Never had to do that. I add a device, it gets set up for me. I used to have problems setting up Linux, but now everything seems to be easier to set up, no disks to add drivers, etc... Screen works, etc.. I think I will stick with Linux for the moment.

People have this fantasy that they will be able to run their desktop games on their small portables. They have this idea of playing WoW everywhere they go so they install XP.

But most of these Atom machines can barely run Flash games on XP because their CPUs don't support out of order execution and proprietary software can't be recompiled to optimize it for every platform like free software can.

...I'm running an EeePC 901 with a high-performance 64GB SSD, 2GB of RAM and Ubuntu and it's lovely. Spent a few minutes configuring the font sizes and icons and getting rid of one of the toolbars and now I get a modern rich internet browsing experience, wifi connectivity that works a lot better than my main Windows XP machine and a video player that's a lot less temperamental than the windows media player.
Do you really need 64GB for a netbook? No ruddy way, but it's cheaper than smoking.

It wouldn't be because, none of there currently owned software won't run? or because it won't work nicely on the network in there workplace and it won't play nice with Exchange nor with other Office users?

Wireless support is not very good at all, whats with having to hardboot when coming out of hibernation to get wireless working again? Yes tried MANY Linux distros, same old problems persisted. Running an Orinoco Gold PCMCIA card and another generic high powered wireless card.
Surprisingly XP has had no problems with it ever and amazingly Win 7 beta has also worked flawlessly on it since 7100, am now onto 7264. This is with an original IBM Thinkpad T42 with only 512M mem, so you think they would have it's issues sorted out by now... Anyway I don't really care, it's running way faster with Win 7 and FFox than it ever did with Linux and X Window.

The manufacturers must be coming to the same conclusion as me and that's why they have dropped bloated Linux.
Yes before you say it, I got a friend whom is an ultra Linux geek to check it out and to tune it up etc. Did nothing for it, he said to get more RAM. I said forget it, it works fast in Win7 with Office 2007, he grumbled and got another beer...

no_ms_shill: I feel you really have to take negative comments re: Linux with a large grain of salt: who is the main competitor to Linux? Who is one of the richest companies in the world, with the cash to actually pay "bloggers" to post negative comments about Linux and open source? Who has the cash to strong-arm computer companies (producing netbooks) to "only" offer Windows? <<

The Loon boys never seem to tire of telling the same lies over and over, even when it's clear to everyone else they are lies. Why can't a bunch of Linux bums get together and sell Linux netbooks to people and make lots and lots of money in the process? If there is a lot of money to be made selling Linux machines to people, how come we don't have a huge Linux computer company already? How come we only find a bunch of no name companies attempting to sell Linux (desktops / laptops / netbooks), and how come they stay no name companies forever?

Linux has a large number of fundamental problems. A bunch of internet volunteers working without much interaction or cooperation is never going to produce a usable operating system. Nobody is in charge. We have ten of everything, and none seems to work satisfactorily. On top of that, we have a misguided little "community" that never stops lying about what Linux can do, and never stops attacking anyone that complains.

Linux has had a fair chance to compete for a long time now. Many different companies tried to sell Linux on the desktop, and all have failed. Contrary to what the Loon boys like to believe, if Linux desktop business were profitable, nobody can stop everybody from making those profits. Not even Microsoft.

'Linux has had a fair chance to compete for a long time now'

A so MS forcing netbook manufacturers to install Windows or get bad pricing is a fair chance is it?

Linux is dropping out of fashion because I have to pay for Windows to get the netbook I want to run linux on.

yeah sure....I have XP 64 since they were released, but my amd64 machine still has better driver support for devices like soundcards(sb live 4.1/5.1 on xp64 is a joke), cameras(my sony only works on 32bit xp), older mobile phones, card readers and such.
Vista was a blessing for me.Suddenly i had drivers for my xp64 machine.But still, a load of those devices dont work with 64 but they do with ease with linux.

p.s. Windows powershell???
$apt-get update
$apt-get upgrade

all my programs are up to their latest versions with 2 simple commands.Can MS do that?????? NOPE

I've had very few problems running Ubuntu (actually Eeebuntu) on a couple EEEPCs. Decent stability and speed, considering the netbook's available CPU and disk bandwidth.

Indeed, EEEubuntu performed noticeably faster on the 9" EEEpc compared to the stock XP install, since the latter was trying to swap heavily to the flash for some mysterious reason.

Still, it's a shame that ASUS chose to cripple many of its EEEpc products with its 'unique' (dare I say 'special needs') derivative of Xandros linux, which they then promptly chose to not support in any way.

This brings me to a important point that is often ignored when comparing Microsoft to Linux: Linux is not a product, but rather a category, a collection of many many many OSes, all sharing degrees of similarity and interoperability. Some varieties of Linux are commercial, most are open source, some work very very well for specific purposes, some work well for general desktop application. And some varieties of Linux really really suck, at times profoundly so.

Comparing Microsoft to Linux can be like comparing apples to oranges. Saying that 'Linux' sucks for desktop applications, and thus it is no replacement for Microsoft products, can be akin to saying, 'I prefer apples over oranges because that bag of navel oranges I picked up for really cheap at roadside farmer's stand were really awful,'

Come on... according to IDG Linux netbooks make up for 30% of its the market. Dell is not dropping Ubuntu anytime.

"It just seems so passe and 2003 to slate Linux without considering the advances they've made in the last few years."

Try Kubuntu live CD as it looks great (the Vista type widgets rock) and works well. After installing, use the 'Start (K) System Settings Add and Remove Software' to add the usual Firefox, vlc media player, Thunderbird 2 email client, Code::Blocks C++ IDE software, etc.

http://www.kubuntu.org/

As an owner of an Asus EEE with SSD and Xandros preinstalled I have to say that Asus screwed it big time.

The netbooks that Asus has sold with Linux are more alike to an appliance that a full blown PC. The system is solid but you can only do what the system has built-in. There is a service for installing additional software but there is not much useful software and a lot of it is payware.

I have tried to install in Xandros an open source package that in Debian is only an apt-get away and the process has been a royal pain in the ass. And I am an expert linux user, mind you.

They should have done like Dell with Ubuntu, not building their own cut-down appliance-like Xandros distro. They don't get well the concept of Open Source. After installing eeebuntu all has been well, but installing a brand new OS is not for your regular user.

When someone begins with linux usually they ask me how to install software downloaded from the web. If it is not available in your distro's repos you'll have trouble.

The EE with a hard disk and a couple of gig of RAM and you can run Windows 7. As for gaming.. a bit like thin client you can play some great online games on these little devices.

Chrome is coming out soon which will be an interesting one to watch, based on the Linux kernal I can't wait to see the interface.

Ubuntu Netbook remix had everything working "out of the box" on my Acer Aspire one (8.9" w/ 120GB hard drive and WinXP home as the original OS).

I would have to agree that I do prefer HDDs over SSDs because of the increased storage, but I would also say that I prefer Linux over Windows. I have less programs lock up on Linux than Windows. Personally I do a dual-boot (another reason for my preference of HDDs), but I rarely actually boot into Windows.

The reason that Linux has disappeared is that it hasn't, the vendors are hiding it (you have to search HP and Dell to find them on their sites) or have stop selling it (ACER, ASUS, etc.) because they are afraid of Microsoft (quote from ASUS CEO).

I bought an Acer Aspire One with Linpus that works great (HDD). It's based on Fedora soit's actually quite configurable.

I bought an HP Mini for my son that's based on Ubuntu with a SSD and it works great also.

I don't miss all the extra security crap (antivirus, firewall, spyware monitoring programs) I have to install and maintain under Windows. The builtin Linux firewalls are pretty decent.

What is being demonstrated is the gross negligence of the netbook vendors. The author helps perpetuate this by lumping two unrelated (except by their common inclusion in first-generation netbooks) issues into the same argument.

SSDs are more expensive than HDDs and will continue to be so for the immediate future. The only issue is how much non-volatile storage a user needs.

Linux OSs can do almost everything Windows can do. However, in their efforts to provide branding of their products, the netbook vendors used stripped-down or customized Linux distributions that were too dissimilar to Windows and therefore destined to fail.

With a proper distribution (I usually recommend either PCLinuxOS, Linux Mint, or Puppy linux to Windows refugees) most of the complaints about Linux would disappear.

I can agree somewhat with the SSD's, my Dell Mini 9 has 16GB of storage and that's not enough, and it costs money for the somewhat limited upgrades to 32GB or 64GB. Otherwise I'm pretty happy with a nice solid state drive that's hard to break.

As for Linux.....will it ever end? I've been hearing since 1995 (the earliest I paid attention) that The DAY was coming, that soon everyone would wake up and embrace some Penguin Goodness.

Yet it never seems to happen, not when Windows ME was falling all over itself, not when XP dragged out forever for an update, not when Vista blessed us with it's presence like a rock thrown through a window. (Pun, get it?)

I've seen people screaming about how stable/cheap/reliable Linux is, but I've never used it more than a month or so before incompatibility or configuration issues would drive me back to Windows.

I'd love to see the Dance of Ten Thousand Distributions come to a stop, One distro and that's all, some serious quality control, and emphasis on usability. This latest round with Netbooks was about the best shot at it.

And now we're back square one. Again. Flame on boys, that seems like all you can do.....

It's almost impossible to install software in linux, how is this a viable OS for end users? Seriously, for any other operating system you just download a file and double click on it to install/run new software. For linux, you have to contend with 18 different package managers *if you're lucky*... if you're unlucky, you get to enlist in the source code and build the software yourself. The Ubuntu people need to get their thumbs out of their butts, stop trying to come up with pleasing african color schemes, get their s*** together and fix this before anybody can claim with a straight face that linux is easy to use.

Tom:

Perhaps you could rephrase your statement as "it's almost impossible for Tom to install software in Linux". Many (most) others have no trouble at all using the adept graphical package manager (Ubuntu), or Yast (OpenSuse)to install their choice of tens of thousands of FREE, secure software programs from managed repositories. I have not seen a single user have difficulty with this on any of the systems I have set up (so yours must be a special case).

Linux IS different from Windows -- that's the whole point of using it. It is secure, where Windows is not; it and most programs that run upon it are free (whereas most Windows programs are not). It is intuitive to use, and allows the user complete control over their system, whereas Windows does not.

Of course, people certainly are free to continue using Windows and paying through the nose for their OS and most of their software. I think that I will continue to stick with the free, secure alternative to Microsoft security-challenged bloatware (and help others to do the same).

I am sorry you seem to have had difficulty with Linux, but there are thousands of people on-line (user forums, wikis) waiting to help you free of charge right now with any questions you may have (can you say the same for Windows?).

Yes, yes, I thought it would have been clear from my post but I wasn't referring to installing software that's available from the nice bundled package manager GUIs. What if I want to use, e.g., Google Earth? That's actually one of the more favorable examples because Google makes a slick Ubuntu installer for it, but when I tried to run it on a bone stock Ubuntu install a few months ago it barfed with some indecipherable permissions errors. Sorry, but nobody should have to put up with this kind of s***.

HI THERE LINUX IS HISTORY BUT SSD ARE HEAR TOO SATY SSD ARE IN CHEAP WINDOWS NET BOOKS SAMSUNG SSD CAMCORDERS AND SEGA RINGEDGE AND 2010 X-BOX 360 WILL HAVE A 32 GB SSD AND APPLE DELL ALIENWARE TOSHIBA HP ALLIEN WARE COMPUTERS OFFER SSD LAPTOPS AND A FEW DESKTOP COMPUTERS EVEN HARDCORE COMPUTERS AT www.hardcorecomputer.com WITH 3 SAMSUNG 256 GB SSD