Hollywood tells Jobs it wants Flash

#1) Apple sucks
#2) Google sucks
#3) Both are marketing geniuses, PERIOD.
#4) Flash sucks
#5) Flash sucks
#6) People are mostly noobs
#7) Java should have triumphed
#8) Too bad
#9) Silverlight late to the party
#10) Goodjob MS by making a more accesible alternative to flash
#11) Silverlight sucks
#12) All the products suck, and while idiotic demand dominates the market, I pray Jobs does not buckle
#13) Doing so *can* lead to innovation by making flash good or by other companies listening to developers and coming up with a simple alternative to flash
#14) Many, many many alternatives exist that are more accessible, offer more features, are less resource hungry across the board and are not well enough known to get bought out by another company, or developed because of the open source nature.
#15) End the incomplete list of FACTS

" Flash on mobile

Perhaps you Wintards ought to read up on why Flash isn't iPad, iPod, iPhone available. Discover for yourselves how hardware or software handles video.
posted by : Robert MacEwan, 31 May 2010"

Perhaps we are missing the point...
The iPhoneOS units have no multitasking ability, and (perhaps?) cannot do HW accelerated Flash like.. Most other things.
So yes, Flash would be probably be miserable on such a horribly crippled device.

Flash 10.x even works pretty reasonably on Linux for goodness sakes, if it is such a turd on MacosX perhaps Flash isn't the problem...

Perhaps you Wintards ought to read up on why Flash isn't iPad, iPod, iPhone available. Discover for yourselves how hardware or software handles video.

<quote Microsoft forced so many "standards" towards its own benefits, analysts say that they missed the Internet Boom but so many things are done their way. It's worth mentioning that M$ still refuses to officially support Java, which was one of their few good decisions.</quote

Actually Microsoft did support Java with their own Java engine. They added MS Windows proprietary extensions as "options", made sure all default settings for developers turned those extensions on, and proudly marketed their improved "cross-platform" Java (compatible only with Windows unless you went into settings and turned OFF all the Microsoft extensions deliberately). This of course also turned off all the neat enhancements that made MS Java "better" :P

Sun canceled Microsoft's license forcing Microsoft to withdraw their "improved" Java and rely on the standard Java distributions. Microsoft has never again been permitted to distribute their own Java.

Microsoft has never "refused" to support Java, though they did take steps to cripple cross platform compatibility during the short time Sun let them distribute a Microsoft version of Java.

Maybe you and your simple-minded... sorry I meant similiarly-minded friends could get your heads out of your asses and read some statements by spokesadobes. They have admitted, countless times, that Flash for Mac SUCKS AND HAS SUCKED FOR YEARS. And they have yet to release a final, stable version of 10.1 that won't fix half of the problems if current betas are any indication (and I bet they are).
I don't get how people can complain about Apple's devices, because they don't support Flash if only a few, select other devices started supporting it just now. And don't you dare call Flash Lite an alternative to the desktop version, it's not. Websites have needed to adapt their content to mobile devices all along, but that's being swept under the carpet by the Apple-hating media and anti-fanboys.

All this uninformed whining is making me sick.

The performance of Flash, now, or compared to HTML 5 or whatever is irrelevant as far as what Apple wants. Apple just wants to control the content delivery mechanism on their hardware, and supporting something like Flash that allows that is simply intolerable to Apple.

This is just like Microsoft's hate of Java back in the 1990s. They don't want some outside company able to provide a computing platform outside the OS's control. It makes the OS a non-factor in the equation, and in turn the computer (PC, iPhone, iPad, whatever) as well.

Apple's supposed support of HTML5 is just pushing the issue away a few years since no HTML5 browsers exist yet. Apple can also cripple whatever HTML5 support there is on their phones, and it may not even allow it to function as applications. Flash, on the other hand, can incorporate whatever Adobe decides to add to it. It can evolve into a platform that can be used for app development, games, and anything that Apple's apps can provide, and more. *That* is the danger to Apple's iPhone and iPad, because once the application distribution system is circumvented, people can jump ship to other, possibly superior platforms that won't be under Apple's control. No iAd, no App store, no need to even use an iPhone.

its simple
if your going to make a product you have so it appeals to the most consumers
thus you must have Flash

w/ Apple consumers follow but they dont see the pit fall their walking into because almighty Jobs is in their way and so they wont get support

w/ PC consumers they want simple things like to surf the web for news, check email,and watch videos of cat falling off a table or something of that sort and these sites use flash because PC are more than likely to have flash support

the most amount of consumers are the regular PC consumers who believe it or not will and do use Flash on a daily basis

there is a simple answer

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2010/may/29/ipad-review-charlie-brooker

LOL

Apple iphone - when you first get one you have to register a credit card when you start it up, seriously.

Windows - it's never asked me for my credit card when I startup my pc, maybe it should?!

Google - Slowly going down the credit card route of apple.

Apple have a clever way of getting money out of us. Register a credit card, and then make it very very easy to buy stuff on it.

As no "real" money leaves your pocket it's easy to buy a couple of apps, or a couple of movies or songs. Too easy?

Apple will boom over the next 3-5 years. They have a clever "you must register a credit card" system on all their new products. Amazingly cheeky, but they are doing it, and it's working for them.

LOL, and we used to whinge at Microsoft because once every 6 years they sold us a copy of windows. Apple is charging 10x that and there's not many iphone's that will last 6 years.

And have you ever tried to copy your songs from one iphone onto another, lol. Come back Microsoft, please!

you have **totally** forgotten the MAIN thing!!

What do you do on your PC etc with flash, that you have been doing for **years** ????

Without all manner of pop-up blockers, adblock, flash block, etc...

Then of course your normal pc/etc would be as slow/ awful/ ugly mess that all the mobile browsers with flash are at the moment!... :/
- The lack of RAM/ CPU speed/ tramsmission speed & ability does not help, when users AND developers blindly think "It works ok on a PC, so..."

Please EDUCATE yourself, do more than HALF a job, otherwise you will deserve the hat with a big D, and derve the insults...

Funny, flash works ok on my device, an hay i can do limited multi tasking too!

tell you what, if you keep telling yourself that BS you just spouted maybe, just maybe it might come true, an Apple will take over the world spreading its love to us all making sure we never touch "bad" software or watch anything that doesnt meets its masters aproval, can you feel the love?

:)

Flash is rubbish, what's the betting Silverlight will make an appearance on the iPhone/iPad?

@mycelo

You are a fool who stupidly thinks rich interfaces are feasible without client-side smart content, get real!

Apple products are overpriced bling for slavish consumers, by that glamorous corporate vampire, and Chinese slave customer, Steve Jobs.

Yes, flush sucks, but that is because Adobe have got lazy and complacent, like many stagnant corporations, including Apple!

Both Java and .Net run in smart Virtual Machines, so are much more stable and secure than Flash!

Java is not dying, I use it daily and am Java Developer, so know it can be very fast, provide you use a recent version of the runtime and use properly written Java software, and mobile suppliers provide you with a decent version.

Note: Apple actually hold Java back on Apple hardware, because they refuse to let Sun, and now Oracle, keep it up-to-date and secure, like they do for other OS's.

Client side smart content is required for speed, platform optimisation, and for content which it is not practical to provide via server rendering, AJAX, or the much hyped, but inadequate, HTML 5.

Said it before, say it again: Flash not so long ago (simultaneously with their hardware acceleration of HD) introduced advanced DRM, meaning the media moguls can charge money and prevent play soon, and that is what will make them pick flash, because open source codecs and HTML5 is not what they dream of.
So the divide remains between the people's wishes and the weasel's wishes.

For the crap they have to offer flash is necessity. If they prevailed Jobs better have "an app for that" (to block it). I can see no reason to waste the expensive bandwidth and battery life for Adobe's web parasite.
I have no love for apple's ways (proprietary connectors, itunes to access phone content etc) but the less flash the better.

1) complaining that a beta product is slow, is dumb.

2) iPhone can't multi-task in the first place, so why is not multi-tasking when viewing a flash site and multitasking the rest of the time with an android any worse?

3) Your post sounds like you don't even have an android device and are just re-posting what you read on the web. You said "That android phone" instead of "my android phone". Chill, you're not even affected.

4) Re: #3, we have an iPod touch and it's just plain crippled without flash.

When everybody is running an html5 browser with the same video codecs, that may the be the time to drop flash. That is assuming flash doesn't have a bunch of other features you might want that html5 doesn't. Personally I don't think it will happen in the next 5 years. IE9 is supposed to have html 5, but I'm guessing there will be lots of features not there. And that means waiting till IE10, and hoping that everybody upgrades. And that Mozilla can work out some h264 deal.... etc.

Here's reality - the web uses lots of flash today and the ipad/phone is for sale today and it should have flash.

Apple isn't going to get the whole internet to change overnight. you're ipad/iphone will long be in the trash and replaced by the time flash dissappears. Right beside my htc dream which will never see android 1.5 ....

Even though I just hate anything related to Apple, he's right.

Flash is something tailored for M$ Windows, and if that wasn't bad enough, it's bugged, resource hungry, and an immensely obvious security and privacy backdoor.

I hope those Apple sex toys sell like hell and still refuse to run anything from Adobe, which will ultimately cause many sites to abandon this messy crap in favor of something more standard and easier on our CPUs. Java is also slowly dying and it will be good see this idiocy out of our lives altogether. HTML5 can do everything all by itself, finally.

Microsoft forced so many "standards" towards its own benefits, analysts say that they missed the Internet Boom but so many things are done their way. It's worth mentioning that M$ still refuses to officially support Java, which was one of their few good decisions.

Now why can't Apple do the same?

F*** Flash, F*** Java, F*** .NET, etc, etc. Internet is free and open-source by nature, go make money out of something else.

...Macs and PCs that keep whining on about how badly Flash keeps crashing their computers and runs real slow etc. etc.

Well I have a suggestion.

Why dont you call someone in who actually knows something about computers to fix your crappy one or build you a proper one?

Its pretty apparent you know jack about running one properly.

Its actually really easy to make PCs that run Flash perfectly, no special magic needed.

We all know how Apple is guarded regarding app on the iPhone considering, for all intents and purposes, any Flash application would rival any of the compiled applications and destabilize the monopoly that Apple has over application development and distribution. Oh and not to mention cut into the cool cash flow it collects for controlling and being the sole publisher of applications. This is the primary reason Flash is not allowed.

In stead of coming up with some solution at least for video, Apple has chosen to antagonize almost everyone. They antagonize Flash designers, Flash Developer, and video content publishers who most likely are Mac users that purchased a Mac to use Adobe products.

Those same people probably bought an iPhone thinking they would be able to show their Flash content at some point in the near future; near being in the past now since the launch of the platform is far behind us. And other users of the iPhone should just be upset. Why is everyone not revolting or at least getting behind some kind of initiative to force Apple’s hand I do not know.

If controlling the software that gets distributed were not key to Apple, it probably would be on the table for Apple to get Adobe to streamline Flash just on their platform. I mean, Adobe want onboard so badly that they could have had probably encouraged Adobe to rewrite the player to take advantage of all the hardware accelerations and even or maybe customize security for iPhone. Sense the phone hardware specs don’t vary except over generations of the phone, it would give Adobe a product cycle to work with unlike Android and all the different headsets.

Battery life I think Users should decide, but should be educated. Provide an area in the settings for enabling and disabling Flash content/video. Give the tools to manage a resource intense component just like you can control Wifi and screen brightness to improve power utilization…

You seem terribly angry about something, did a flash application touch you in an inappropriate place?

I have a nexus one running android 2.2, and your points are just plain wrong. Firstly it's configurable whether flash plays by default, I have it set to not, so I get a blank box as per iPad etc, the difference being I can tap on it and it starts - no extra overhead at all, but an extra option if I want it.

Also flash applications have nothing to do with multitasking, and if it's not hardware accelerated it's doing an extremely impressive job, given that everything works just fine and there doesn't appear to be any noticeable effect on battery life at all.

Flash works very nicely on the N1, it's apple's choice to not support it for commercial reasons, the technology arguments are a smokescreen.

A part of me agrees that the HTML5 platform is the new direction to take, and that sometimes people need a push to get on the wagon because we tend to naturally resist change. Nonetheless, Apple has been perhaps a little too forceful - though I am guessing a bit of arrogance plays into it, as well, with how well they've done to date with the iPxxx lines.

The argument that Flash leads to crashes comes across a bit weak, considering some of the apps that are able to make their way into the AppStore. There's plenty of buggy and trashy software in there that will freeze up, force reset, or otherwise cause problems. The consumer is always free to remove something that causes them grief, and I honestly feel that it should be the same for Flash. I think both parties could put their heads together to deal with aspects of OS control, security, and overall quality of product and walk away winners... along with us consumers.

I DO still want to see further development in HTML5, though, so maybe a bit of time and patience is the better route? I don't really know for certain.

i develop flash content, and not stupid ad banners, but entire content frameworks. Yea, flash sucks for cpu and memory consumption, but it works on all desktop PCs. This simple fact alone makes flash the platform of choice for courseware developers such as myself. And courseware instruction is making its way on to the mobile. And believe me, courseware developers do not want to go native... they want as much cross platform as possible and flash is your only choice for interactive high level courseware on mobile devices AND the desktop. So I know there is one market that Apple will be left behind in.

First off Flash on that new android 2.2 phone sucks. Pages take longer to load (cause of all the FLASH advertisements), and its still in freaking BETA!!! Which means it is not done yet. Scrolling a page with flash is also horrid. In fact this is the FIRST TIME it has even been shown to work at least somewhat decently on any mobile device. Not to mention it is a resource HOG on said mobile devices. Which means it eats your battery for lunch, cripples your multitasking phone cause your memory gets eaten for dinner. Which means that you, yes YOU the user has to use your phone something similar to how you use your computer. By managing how many applications you run on your phone, so that it doesn't become useless when its time to actually make a phone call.

SO while AT&T's network may be the issue for your iPhone in some major cities why you can't call. Your PHONE in this case is actually preventing you from making a call. Cause once you see all that pretty Flash stuff on you myspace's and AOL's and what not, or playing a crap Flash based game. Your battery dies, your phones resources are strained, and by the time you realize it. Your phone is a paper weight.

People, there is NO hardware acceleration for flash at all. Its a resource hog on a full blown PC, and always has been. Job's asked Adobe to show them flash working well on ANY MOBILE DEVICE. Its not like Apple would not include it if it only were to work well. Its an old tech, that needs to be updated or removed. Move on people, flash is good for somethings, but if its not going to get updated to the point of using it on devices like mobile phones, and tablets. Where battery power is thin, and size is everything. IT HAS NO PURPOSE.

So stop asking for Apple to support flash, and start asking Adobe to make it work better on mobile devices. Or just tell the NBC's and Time Warner's, that they should support HTML5. Its standards based, and can work better on ALL Mobile devices. Wouldn't that make you even happier? To have something that actually works everywhere?

Being left behind sounds more like it. If I find that the Web OS equipped Palm Pre on AT&T supports Java, I'm definitely going that route. Screw the iPhone, iPad and anything that doesn't support Java and native video. Jobs had to do an about face on Apps for the iPhone, Video support in the camera, Copy and paste, so he may as well just allow the iThingies to use Flash and be done with it. Seriously, if the iPhone becomes the only Smartphone that doesn't support Flash, growth will stagnate.

My daughter got an iPod touch as a gift from her grandma, and has been dissappointed that you can't use it to hear songs or watch videos on AOL music, Hulu, nick.com, disney.com, ABC.com (we're yanks) facebook, myspace. She wanted to show her friends how cool it was, but it ended up being not so cool after all.

Yay I can read a static web page! Or Pay to watch a music video that I can see for free on AOL music with a real internet device!

The only videos you can see are through the iStore or through Apple's youtube clone. WTF Apple, fix your shiney toy.

The wax is melting on Steve Job's wings as he flies further into the heavens. Flash 10.1 is supported by Android, BlackBerry, Symbian, and PalmOS. Time Warner and NBC made a rational business decision. - They answer to their shareholders, not the whims and future ambitions of another person. It's refreshing to see cost benefit analysis enter the Apple-Flash argument. At some point Jobs's "...one more thing" will finally announce Flash support.