We shape our buildings; thereafter they shape us - Winston Churchill
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UK hacker deserted by government
LIB-DEM LEADER Nick Clegg has performed an about face on the Government's power to stop the US from extraditing accused UK hacker Gary McKinnon.
The Deputy Prime Minister has thrown the prospect of a Home Office tribunal for McKinnon into doubt after suggesting that neither he nor anyone else in the coalition can save the UFO hunter from a US show trial.
While out of the government Clegg was a long time supporter of McKinnon, believing extradition would be a contravention of human rights. He sharply criticised Alan Johnson, the previous Home Secretary, for claiming he was powerless to intervene.
"It's simply not good enough for Alan Johnson to shrug his shoulders and claim that nothing can be done," Clegg wrote in the Daily Mail back in 2009.
"It's completely within his power to enact amendments from the Police and Justice Act, which would allow Gary McKinnon to be tried over here," Clegg protested at the time.
Then, on a BBC radio interview yesterday, Clegg completely reversed his position. The powers he had claimed were possessed by Johnson apparently had somehow vanished once Clegg himself joined the Government.
"What I haven't got power to do, neither has the Home Secretary neither has even the Prime Minister, is to completely reverse and undo certain legal aspects of this," he whinnied.
Clegg continued, "That of course you wouldn't want politicians to do. That's what we are looking at at the moment. It's legally very complex. But on the sort of morality and principle of it, I haven't changed my view one bit."
What's going on? The new coalition government is already rolling over under US pressure to take McKinnon away for trial and likely a very long prison term overseas. Clegg's protestations that his moral view hasn't changed apparently will be worth nothing for McKinnon.
The US wants to get its claws on McKinnnon after it claimed he caused $800,000 in damages during his searches for UFO coverups on US military and NASA networks. The US is still reeling from "the biggest military hack of all time" after being badly embarrassed by the autistic McKinnon.
A self-confessed bumbling computer nerd who suffers from Asperger syndrome wrote a simple Perl script that tied together other people's programs and searched for blank passwords, circumventing what should have been some of the world's most secure computer systems. Now the US government wants to make a severe example of him out of a desire for revenge. And the lame UK Government won't prevent it. µ
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UK citizen should be only trial in the UK where committed this crime.
To my best understanding NOTHING was stolen or damaged.
If someone tries my windows and one is open without a lock and the entry is illegal,
but he only looks around and nothing is stolen or damaged I can't get any prosecutor in Finland to take the case - too many cases and since NOTHING was stolen or damaged...
BUT US should really work on their security and since they didn't THAT pisses them off greatly and now the state of England plays nicele wityh their one and only president Obama bin Laden...good going Small Britain
"Once these passwords were discovered he would have had to enter them on a screen which would normally have a large section of text on the penalties for unauthorized use. He obviously ignored these warnings and got caught. BUSTED, go and face the music like a man. "
It wasn't that hard for him to find the passwords. It would be like me sellotaping my house door shut with the TV, computer, laptop and VCR all on display in the window, then putting signs in the windows saying removal of the sellotape is a criminal offence, criminals will be prosecuted, then wondering why when I got back later the sellotape had been removed and all my stuff gone.
You can't be bothered putting proper security on your items you lose it simple.
Anyway the fact is not as to whether he did anything wrong, the fact is did he know what he was doing was wrong? With Asperger's some of these agreements can be quite confusing due to the literal interpretations of things and when he read the unauthorised use signs did he fully understand what it meant.
For example I too have Asperger's and sometimes when I'm parking in town, until recently if I wanted to go to the Parr Hall after 6pm I would park on one side of town and walk across town, coming out of the Parr Hall at about 11pm and having to risk crossing Warrington at 11pm. The main reason for this was due to literal interpretation of the sign e.g. it states on the parking signs around the Parr Hall - "Mon to Fri 8am-6:30pm 30 minutes no return within 2 hours". My literal interpretation of that is that if I park at 6:15pm for more than 30 minutes I will get fined (due to having parked within the time zone, even though when I left I was out of the time zone). However someone who knows how literally I can take things has explained to me that it's the time you leave that counts not the time you start parking, so if you arrive at 6:15 once it reaches 6:30 your free to stay there all night with no restrictions.
Likewise the warning he saw probably said something like
"This system is confidential and intended solely for the use of the US government. If you are not the US government any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of information is strictly prohibited"
which to me that warning would read that as long as I didn't use, print or distribute the information I wouldn't be breaking the law. So just looking at the information wouldn't necessarily be breaking the law. I'm only assuming that is the message he would receive (or something very similar).
I think it's terrible how quick the government was to change the laws though for those terrorists the other week from the North West that were going to be killed if they were returned to Pakistan, yet the government is saying they "can't" do the same thing for a British citizen. Quite clearly this is Nick Clegg being very racist and making one rule for people from other countries and another rule for British people, yet because we're not the ethnic minority we aren't entitled to as much protection.
Why would the U.K. government or anyone else support a hacker? He admits hacking. What's the big deal? Prosecute him for his crime and be done with it.
While I do believe some hackers (white or black hat) do have Aspergers (which I do, too), I don't believe that all hackers should use that excuse.. It just pisses me off and gives us a bad name.
Some hackers with Aspergers accidentally find a flaw or more in a network's security. What usually happens? They tell someone or they find a way to patch it.
It's unfortunate that some get chewed out or attacked, expelled, fired, or court-martialed because they found a flaw that the system administrator couldn't.
Honestly, if someone has a blank or simple password, they should face the music and get blocked and/or get written up.
...is in prison.
I didn't vote for the Tories, nor Labour. I accept that the coalition means a watered down Tory government, with a (hopefully large) sprinkling of libdem policies to bring some sanity to Westminster.
But this is ludicrous; Clegg specifically said he could help, now says he cannot. So, he was lying then, or lying now.
Outrageous. I'll never vote libdem again. Come back Mandelson; at least you were openly satanic, and not two-faced..
he should be tried, -for grafitti vandalism. Maybe do a couple of weeks of community service. First time offender an' all yo.
THe point is not he should not do the time he has admitted guilt for what he did and wants to face up for his actions and goto prison.
The thing is he shhould face trial here and goto prison here, or at least if sentenced in US come home and do his time in a prison in UK. The US will not let either of these things happen.
Also they have not said what eveidence they have as treaty does not need for them to provide evidence, so he did $800k damage is this the same place that said categorically Sadam had WMD!
The investigators in UK and US including the guy who helped capture him (now retired) have said they feel his trial should be in UK.
So just on case alone he should be sentenced here and face prison here and that is forgetting about his mental health. He would not get a fair trial in states as they will use secrecy laws to stop evidence being given or heard and make sure he sentence is well over the top and not fair as per other hacking cases.
New government = old governmet with a different name; old farce with new actors; same shit, different day.
And so on...
you sounded as if he killed someone :) , he just do a search for UFO, it more like your neighbor found your door open and looked for your new painting ... do you shot him? :)
If you break in my house, you will do the time. Don't expect any mercy from the judge because of your untreated and uncontrollable emotional NEED for someone else's stuff. And don't expect any hospitality from me just because I haven't installed the latest and greatest security system.
Just be grateful that you get to do the time if you don't get shot dead on the spot. Oh, I forgot. You're Brits, and that possibility never occurred to you. Well, we're talking about the United States, where we fought from 1775 to 1781 to win the following freedom from your King George III.
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." - U.S. Constitution, Amendment II
I wouldn't want to live in a country where criminals know they can use deadly force to threaten, with impunity, people who are denied the right to protect themselves. That would be as bad as living in Washington, D.C., before the Supreme Court overturned the D.C. handgun ban on June 26, 2008.
How can a perl script designed to control port scanners and find blank passwords chase 800,000 in damages? Oh wait.... It took 800 grand to properly train military and NASA employees how to make stronger safer passwords. So they want to blame this kid for them spending money they should have in the first place.
The fact is this kid should have been rewarded for exposing weakness in our aerospace and military infrastructure.
rayhectorbrettchrisrob
Laws are made by people. All people are fallible. Especially people who never question what their overlords (elected representatives?) are up to.
So, here in the USA we have bankers who have taken billions of dollars from the govt., only to provide bonuses to themselves and continue business as usual-and they are not pursued by law enforcement at all. This poor guy makes a mistake by innocently looking for "UFO data" and they want to hammer him to death. This seems to illustrate the lazy, self serving nature of those in charge of this prosecution. Disgraceful.
020 is the STD code for London, and London has eight digit phone numbers.
You only need 020 if you are using a mobile or dialling from outside the city.
It's been like this for what? Ten years?
WTF? It's Britain that's extraditing anyone, if at all. This is a free country, not another state of the US, they have no jurisdiction here and it's only UK's willingness to follow the gentlemen deal it signed with the US that can lead to anyone's extradition.
@mogwai - the fact that no more people were caught doesn't mean that no-one else has done it. They might simply have been more sophisticated in covering their tracks. According to McKinnon there were other people who hacked that server at the time he was in.
The US has a perfectly good justice system and to assume that he will be getting a "show trial" reveals more about your bias than it does about this case. This guy did something he knew was illegal and is now facing justice from the nation he attacked.
Just ship McKinnon off to the U.S. and get on with life. He hacked and got caught. Now it's time to face the music.
Is that what you call it when a Government follows the law ? The poor boy has Asperger syndrome ? What a lame excuse for not knowing right from wrong. And give me a break ... "long prison sentence" ? This would have over long ago with him back living with mom by now if he simply came over for trial.
I hope you never suffer from a mental issue in your life, you clearly have no understanding or compassion for your fellow human beings.
You are a sad and ignorant individual although at least that's something you're not alone in.
Ring up and tell them what you think of their two faced, spineless politics. It only takes a minute of your time.
What do you mean it doesn't need them? That's just a stupid comment to make. He did this OVER THE INTERNET. He didn't need to be in the same country. If one person could do this, then an enemy country could easily do the same thing. And do you think that people employed by, let's say the Chinese government would be afraid that they were going to be extradited? No of course not, it may scare people in the US (though realistically still not that many) it wouldn't scare people in a country that doesn't have a good relation with the US.
It seems to me he has used scripts to discover badly implemented/non-existent security on American systems.
Once these passwords were discovered he would have had to enter them on a screen which would normally have a large section of text on the penalties for unauthorized use. He obviously ignored these warnings and got caught. BUSTED, go and face the music like a man.
You might well wonder why the US doesnt have better safegaurds in place. The fact is it doesnt *need* them - it relies on the deterrent effect of a 60 year stint spent sharing a room with one Mr Bubba, courtesy of good ol Uncle Sam.
It may be shocking to people in the civilized world, but why lock your door when its legal to shoot intruders?
It makes sense, i wondered how he did it. Using Perl to tie together tools is really very very easy to do, almost as easy as a batch script, and makes me wonder why more people didn't do this or why the US didn't have better safegaurds in place.
Old Excuse.
Didn't take long for the honeymoon period to end.