People under the age of 25 are too young to be able to afford cynicism - Diogenes the Pseudo Pesky Cynic
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Adobe strikes back at Steve Jobs
SOFTWARE DEVELOPER Adobe's CEO Shantanu Narayen came out yesterday to defend its Flash software and the developers who build it against a spittle flecked rant from Steve Jobs.
Steve "let's sic the cops on the press" Jobs repeated all that he had said before, namely that Flash is not open, it's buggy, and it causes his toys to break and smells of wee.
Narayen gave a video interview to the Wall Street Journal, saying that Jobs had a completely different view of the world from Adobe.
He said that the world is multi-platform and that simply did not suit Steve Jobs' vision. Narayen said that Jobs should let consumers decide.
He pointed out that if the technology doesn't work, consumers won't choose it. The fact that people have built applications using Adobe's technology, the fact that they've deployed it, means that it benefits both publishers and consumers, he said.
"It doesn't benefit Apple and that's why you see this reaction," Narayen said. In the real world developers prefer to build one web application and deploy it across multiple devices. They don't develop software for just one platform like the Iphone.
Meanwhile Adobe CTO Kevin Lynch has also waded into the fray, saying that the primary issue was whether or not Apple should block Adobe's widely used runtimes as well as a variety of technologies from other providers.
However, he said that given the legal terms Apple imposes on developers, "we have already decided to shift our focus away from Apple devices for both Flash Player and AIR." µ
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Steve Jobs would have us each turned in The Sun if found face down in Waterside Tavern, Kings Langley, Hertfordshire.
Do you think that the Dark Lord would allow us to turn off his iAd Horcrux?
Our forefathers worshipped spirits at the foot of Mount Snowdon and starved through cold Winters. Today, we have huge barns full of cod and potatoes. Narayen would have us go back and live like savages!
Apple cannot excommunicate us from our past.
Dralick Command Post: Uninstall ALL Flash Software, if 64 Bit O/S. Does NO Good in 64 bit & Worse, Really Does harm. Even adopey tells user. If system is 64 bit O/S, Flash 10.4 will NOT Work Properly, Even in 32 Bit Browser.
Suckers whom Love to pay in Time & Money can keep software, So Computer can Crash with extra glitch. Flash Just Isn't Enouf to Ruin system on Own, Once Teetering, Flash Will Corrupt & destroy, Mandating New Partition in Most cases.
Old Dr. Who, Now Sausage Thru Grinder & so Is Flash, Gone to pasture. worthless. If computer runs Flash, Computer Is Too OLD.
Flash in 64 Bit O/S Is BAD DEal & SlowDown at ALL times.
Forget IE 8 32 bit & Flash in 64 Bit System.Bam. Forget Being Non Profit. Ruin Entire System over less than Mb/s of Bandwidth, So Precious, Mob Attack Ensues. Mob of Malware.
drashek
As I recall, Macs and Photoshop go together like chocolate and peanut butter.
Were I Adobe I might consider informing Mr. Jobs that if one product is "too buggy" for Apple, then perhaps all Adobe products were "too buggy". It might be time for Adobe to refocus its entire product line on platforms other than Apple hardware and Apple's OSes: Windows, and maybe one distro of Linux.
All of you who develop using flash know this -- we the end users don't want it.
We hate flash based websites, we hate flash epileptic animations, we hate linear flash site navigation with obfuscated un-bookmarkable links which you can't open in another window, we hate flash advertisements, we hate flash using 25% of a 3GHz quad-core CPU just sitting idle in our browser, we hate flash image viewers, we hate flash video players, we hate flash crashing, we hate flash insecurity... in short -- WE HATE FLASH.
We don't care if you don't know any better than to use it -- your kind will die with Flash soon.
Flash is the Fax machine of this decade, an old-fashioned technology holding back progress for years after it was obsolete. Flash is a hack to get browsers to do vector graphics and animation, but it has never been fully integrated into the browser, or fully separated from its original animation timeline metaphor. The flash development UI interfaces are beyond hostile, and the black hole file metaphor makes for bloated file sizes and makes it extraordinarily difficult to develop applications, or for that matter, even animations.
Steve is quite right to dislike Flash. I don't like Steve much anyway, I also dislike the Apple Mob mentality, but he's right on this one.
Apple and Adobe that is. I hope this struggle costs both companies dearly--and has some great side effects like accelerating development of HTML5 or even Flash in another browser war.
Let's also see Apple put its money where its mouth is and release an HTML5 browser. That would shut up the critics.
Actually, when Jobs talks open HTML5, he really is saying current iPhone implementation, in practical terms (given that each one has its warts and that the stupid thing isn't even official yet), so translate that to another closed or semi-closed standard, as of now.
For you people who disable flash on your browsers so you wont see the ads and everything....
Thats not the fault of flash.
Flash is only a means of content delivery
and if flash does die do you think those websites wont find a way to still deliver said ads and this time you might not have a way to disable them like you can with flash.
Flash isn't just for youtube or video but its well developed for interactive animations.
I really dont know how to say this but
Flash has a lot more positives than negatives going for it.
Who ever said that h264 is an open standard is sadly misinformed.
Ogg theora is open standard and open sourced.
You do know that Jobs has a lot invested in h264 right?
So whatever adobe charges for flash, can you imagine Jobs charging any less when h264 begins to start charging license fees by 2015?
As for playback and performance you think that h264 HD wont be as powerguzzling as Flash HD?
Ive never had any of my browsers crash on Flash (im using vista and linux mint)
Ive met a lot of Apple users in my line of work but they aren't as rabidly pro-jobs as most people who rally for apple on this site.
I'm beginning to think that many pro-Apple advocates on the web are paid employees of Apple and are not fanbois.
I wont be suprised if most of the rabid unreasonable apple posters have Phds in Psychology, it may have been a requirement for employment by apple.
These professionals do know how to manipulate public opinon or spread FUD.
Even presidential campaigns use them.
Flash. Arisen from Gray, NEW Dr.Who, Young man seeking world of Adventure & Green ?Bot, Will Air yr.1ep.1 on Saturday 1May2010. Hope Dralick isn't spanish speaking, for Own Sake.
Adobe has Guts to charge so much for stolen software. House paint made from diarehia is more lawful. From Artist Standpoint.
So Turn On, Tune In, Drop Flash & Watch as RED Haired Force Fight for Doctor.
drashek
HTML CSS and Javascript are not new modern technologies. Get your facts straight. Javascript and VB Script were responsible for most browser problems before flash. Maybe most of the people are blinded by apple marketing or too young to remember that. Javascript "standard" doesn't even perform across all browsers you have to create different versions of code for different browsers. I as a developer have personally always hated the Buggy HTML, DHTML, AJAX, CSS, etc... behaviour.
Going back to HTML, CSS, and Javascript is moving the web BACKWARDS 10 years not forwards. HTML5 will have no better browser compatability then HTML4 and does not have better performance then flash in benchmarks. That plus in the interim what are you going to do HTML5 isn't even a candidate spec until 2012. Lots of people will not move to IE9 and firefox isn't supporting .h264 because of fees. Interesting note apple is on the patent for .hs264 conflict of interest much?
All these uninformed posters are hilarious. I guess it shows that marketing and advertising still works and the world hasn't evolved beyond being sheep to the powerful.
"Isn't that HTML5?"
Are you talking about Ogg or H.264 HTML5?
Or the very different renderings of either inline text in CSS3 rotated elements, or SVG images depending on whether you're using Opera, Safari or Firefox?
Or maybe whether a browser downloads all HTML5 videos in their entirety regardless of whether the user wants it to or has any intention of watching all those video (adding considerable cost to 3G/public Wi-Fi browsing) rather than just the first frame. Or whether the HTML5 browser initially displays the first frame or show a specified still image until you start them?
Flash works consistently - Now. Not in ten years from now when IE8 has gone away (if not many years longer, depending in how much support IE9 and 10 come with) and not with a mountain of differences and significant quirks across platforms. Rotated text looks the same in all equivalent Flash players:
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/3269/webkit.jpg
End-users should not talk about tech stuffs they totally ignore. They can drink everything and today the barman is Steve Jobs.
The true is just one: web sites are no longer done entirely made with Flash (due to a lot of reasons as engine visibility...), flash is extremely useful is some situations (i.e. animations) but it will be slowly replaced by other technologies (HTML5 or any other).
So why he wants to turn off Flash today? Why he wants to turn off millions of sites and banners made with Flash?
Why doesn't he let the user or the developer to decide?
The reasons are exclusively politics, Apple is an hardware vendor today (i.e. if you want to develop for iphone/ipad you need to buy a Mac).
As soon as an Ipad/Iphone will be perfectly cloned by an other hardware vendor mounting an open source OS Apple will go back straight to the oblivion.
That's all folks.
*YOU*, developer or not, are nowhere in the discussion except as what the weapons of mass advertisement aim at.
Well in my 18 years of being in the computer industry one thing that was always synonymous with apple users who did any kind of artwork or web development was that they had Adobe dreamweaver and photoshop at least.
They had this for years before Apple had a product that was professional enough to compete now all the Apple fanbois are dissing what actually gave a Mac a place in the corporate world. If it wasn't for professional products such as Adobe suite Corporate entities would have never even allowed Mac's in the building.
Interesting how people turn their backs quickly like nice little drones... Yes sir, how high sir, hut hut hut hut ...
Flash accounts for the most of crashes in my Linux box - obviously, Linux's quite an open system which can be understood very well, yet Adobe for years develops unstable versions of its player. It'll be nightmare to let Adobe in iPhone, although Apple's monopoly is not much appreciated.
Whilst (That's English for While) I salute anyone who standard up to St Jobs and proclaims he is a false prophet, I must confess that I turn off flash on my perfectly flash capable Nokia mobile.
Not because there is any problem with it, but because it's used for so much pointless and annoying crap on webpages, usually adverts. Turning a page which is 50k of text and images into a 300k page of text, images and annoying adverts!
It does prevent me from viewing flash only websites, but to be honest having a website like that is enough to put me off even on a PC. Learn HTML you slacking arty farty!
With HTML5 in the pipes, the necessity for Flash to get the most out of the Web will be over.
And getting rid of another software layer (and a propriatery one at that) is another good thing.
I'm pretty sure Adobe realizes this, and are taking shots at Jobs to try and save whats left of a decrepit Web technology.
Adobe, get with the program, and deliver something fresh instead of clinging to the old.
The ride was good, while it lasted ...
@drclue
potholes? - na -speedbumps, diversions, collapsed bridges, blocked tunnels, stacks of 'paper' documents etc - anything they can drop in your way to prevent your matter transporter taking off and leaving their old knackered nags tottering out of the barn.
But at least a knackered nag can be turned into something useful on its death - MS/Adobe/Apple et all will just leave a bad smell.
"Isn't that HTML5?"
HTML5 doesn't exist yet (and won't officially for another two years), and isn't fully supported in ANY browser (and may never be by Apple, since Apple has so far insisted on ignoring Ogg Theora.)
Apple Nazi's strike again. Do what we say and how we say to do it. That's Job's vision.
I block Flash in my web browsers simply because it is such a resource hog.
"He pointed out that if the technology doesn't work, consumers won't choose it."
Who's he kidding? Consumers don't decide this, developers do.
Back when man first created the automobile Adobe was there saying
"horses are installed in 99% of the barns".
They were on every corner selling CS5 (Corn & Straw 5 Bucks)
As prime makers of buggy whips they decried that horses will always be relevant Cars will never work.
100 years later Adobe is still flogging dead horses for a living. Long live HTML5
With Google releasing the VP8 CODEC
the video issue for HTML5 will be resolved, H.264 and VP8 will stand side by side.
Ones mouse scroll wheel will no longer
be disabled simply because Flash was under it.
RIA applications will no longer be bound to the mouse.
One will not have to fork over $1300 dollars to Adobe for the privilege
of making something cool.
Hackers will have one less way to
get into your computer. Still got to do something about Adobe Acrobat which again is back in the news as a hacker gateway to your computer and personal information, financial information etc.
One can stretch the time between reboots from hours to days.
A simple web layout change won't require a call to the flash specialist.
RIA applications will be able to use CSS style sheets like the rest of the page.
How does Flash annoy , let us get a super computer to count the ways,
I don't own an Apple product.
I don't develop for Apple products.
I don't want an Apple product.
I just develop for the web, and since Apple will be using HTML5, I guess they will just be part of my audience.
Flash , like MPEG-LA and UniSys before that simply wants to erect and or maintain Internet tollbooths on
a road they fill with pot holes.
Seems like Apple is mistakenly driven by otherwise smart Steve on the Flash issue. I wonder if he really understand what Flash means to us developers. Indeed we are being forced to drop Apple's products. A sad situation....
"developers prefer to build one web application and deploy it across multiple devices."
Isn't that HTML5?