Apple cloner switches to Linux

One thing that these argument's teach is that haters are mostly misinformed and ignorant. Just look at morons like Ian or Joe: They obviously know a little about computers, because they're talking like they know everything about them. It's obvious they're ignorant, because of their lack of understanding and they're too good to work on Macs. I know plenty of IT folk who think this way. The biggest issue is they're inexperienced in how the OS actually works and they're overcompensating with attacks. And when, saints forbid, they ever have to work on a Mac or Linux or anything they know nothing about, they would prefer to do it alone so their ignorance isn't revealed. Bless the poor little molested ignoramus's hearts. :-)

I love MS fanboys, gamers, and the DIY'er crowd talking out their asses, a bunch of hobbyists who have no use for a computer other than something to tinker with, play games on, and brag about.
(they think Macs are toys lol)

They've been spouting the same rhetoric for as long as I've owned Macs, the same record gets played over and over again, never changes.
(would be mp3 these days)

I say you're all between 13 and twenty years old, and don't have a clue about life yet, let alone understanding, engineering, quality and service as it relates to product pricing.

Here's an article where they bench a Psystar to an iMac.
http://reviews.cnet.com/desktops/apple-imac-27-inch/4505-3118_7-33783915.html?tag=content;col1

They so much as say the iMac will kill the Psystar box.
" We also anticipate that the 27-inch Core i5-based iMac due out next month will walk all over the Open(Q)."

I already did a price comparison, both with core i7's and comparable monitors, kept the spec as close as I could.
The iMac is cheaper and likely more powerful than the Psystar Open 7, top of the line.

I know what you're going to say. you can build a better computer for half the price.
Macs are overpriced toys.
Death to Mac.
My sister bought a Mac, now I hate her.
yadda yadda yadda.............

You just keep telling that to yourself and everyone else, intelligent people will know better than to believe it.

Old codgers are buying apple pc's. Am old duffer I know asked me if should change his windows pc laptop for an apple pc laptop. He said he heard they were good. So I advised him to try it out and if he liked it then go for it, but I also told him that inside it was the same hardware but apple wanted 2x the price for it.

Imagine how much a pc would cost if there was no microsoft to keep apple slightly honest on pricing?

We all know how apple charges 3x the normal price for memory or graphics cards etc.

Thank "whoever" that Microsoft is "cheap". lol.

what's your point guys? i've been running hakint0sh for a long time but after every update it was always pain in the ass..always... until one day when i had enough and bought macbook pro, since then my quad wasn't on,period... you don't know what you're talking about. if you don't like macs keep your kiddie comments for fellows in your kindergarden and get some life. go and enjoy your linux for whatever you want but i use photoshop and illustrator and you simply can't have it on linux and i need to earn money and these two are helping me to do so.

So if it was a base component of Nextstep, then it was not apple/Jobs that did all the research and development. In fact it was the FreeBSD community, "thats right. Large chuncks of FreeBSD were incorporated into Apple's Mac OS" From Michael Lucas in Absolute BSD, No Starch Press.
Also the fact that NextStep was actually a branch off the BSD 4.3 kernel, you really should give credit where it is due. If you like the windows manager/compositor, then give that one to apple.

I am sure no one is referring to Unix as stand alone, just like no one refers to a PC as dell/hp/lenovo/etc, or a specific brand of motherboard.

But the Mac OS 10, "It's been Unix" still stand true, you went ahead and confirmed it you dolt.

But if anyone was specific they would indicate AIX, IRIX, HPUX, AUX, Solaris, and even XENIX (From Microsoft).
"It's a specification these days, a marketing term that means a product is POSIX compliant" which by the way, just cause its posix doesnt mean it will compile right.
So quit, you're trying to hard to be a prick.
One more example before i go watch some television, notice television doesn't mean A 32 inch. Sony Triniton CRT?

Thankyou ALK for sorting that out, and I apologise for going slightly over the top there Irick.

I still believe most of what I said, I was misinformed of the OS situation.

Still I agree with ALK and think that even if Apple has written their own OS, I would never use it, there's just too many alternatives out there.

Which is why I would never buy the Rebel EFI but would buy one of their little Linux boxes and shove Ubuntu on there if it is not there already.

Nice business idea though selling both...

Hey all, what the hell is the fight for..

1- MACs are more expensive than all the others with same hardware, no need to fight that (same hardware also means same quality, not worse)

2- MAC OSX is not that big of a deal, you want the looks, go fot the MAC4Lin project, the performance is not that better than windows XP or 7 (well leave vista out of the fight)

3- MACs are not the free of viruses, well people are starting to develop viruses and male ware (you can check it out yourself eset nod32 beta version for mac osx, kaspersky for mac, and many others), so here goes the "no antivirus theory' out of the door

4- As for the build of the macbooks and iMAcs, well the broken screens with iMacs 22' out of the package prove how great the iMacs build is, and also some companies are building nice laptops HP envy, ASUS, MSI, also fot he air get a voodoo envy, same and expensive.. since you fanboys like to pay an arm and a leg for your laptops ...

5- 'cr'apple tries to lock you in its own atmosphere, iphone only works with itunes, hell even they don't support WinMo on their mao os, wonder why!!??

6- last but not least ... Windows gives you a certain control over the Os, Mac is so locked that you can nothing in it, and my all time preference Linux is the king of customization, change the shape, change the whole os, you can install win apps, windows games, not emulated, just through API, like the shape, go for Mav4Lin, and linux is not hard to learn, their is ubuntu wich is like the easiest os i have ever worked with, everything there just workd

I am not the linux PR, i am just saying windows, Mac and Linux are the leading OSs in the world, but Mac has it's downsides that make the downsides of the other 2 seem as nothing...
So if you have teeth made of gold and like to be locked -well many like extreme submission- mac is your OS, the 'normal' others can just choose the one that best satisfies your needs...

Subjective experience is subjective, and i will never claim building a rig is a unrewarding experience, but your fifth point is weapons grade bullonium.

OS X (Leopard and above on intel) is UNIX 03 Compliant, that does not make it just Unix. The kernel is XNU (XNU is Not Unix) and was developed under Steve Jobs durring his little 'vacation' from apple. It was the base component of the NEXTSTEP OS and was based closely on the Mach project's findings. Even today the OS X kernel keeps some characteristics of Microkernals, and is the only major or to do so.

I find it funny that people think "UNIX" is a single OS. It's a specification these days, a marketing term that means a product is POSIX compliant.

There are POSIX compliant Linux builds, BSD builds, and even ways to modify Windows NT to achieve partial POSIX compliance.

http://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/

Please do a little research before you bash <3

The extra costs in building Macs vs the costs of building your own rig. These include (according to Joe):

1: Researching components - A few quick searchess of the internet and a little personal preference will get you that far. Of course personal choice is not allowed, rely on the divine intervention of St Jobs.

2: Assembly labour - So a little effort and about one or two hours of your day. Also have you ever considered that system building is somewhat satisfying/rewarding?

3: Shipping - Included in the price of most parts, if not, a quick trip to the shops.

4: Unpacking - Seriously? At most a stanley knife for the case.

5:Developing your own OS - Since when has Apple ever written their own OS? It's been Unix for about forever, and unless you are a gamer like me, Ubuntu will do you through.

6: Warranties - Most parts come with warranties, plus if you build the thing right, you wont have problems.

7: Support and maintenance - See above, plus if you build the thing you obviously know enough to fix it yourself.

And seriously, a $1000 case? At the very most you might go for something like an Antec 1200 for about $180.

So next time, leave ssj4Gogeta alone and think before you troll.

"Even those things that are allegedly the same (RAM, CPU, drives, etc), are different, Apple consistently uses tighter specs than the rest of the industry and doesn't use the cheapest junk out there. Psystar does."

You have no idea how naiive that makes you sound.

Your little rose-couloured-glasses view of Apple really does make you sound like an impressionable 10-year old.

So, to paraphrase the above, "Despite the fact that they use the same parts, Apple are always better, because they are. Psystar are bad because they aren't Apple."

As others have said, they use the same parts, it's just just that some people fall for the crap that if it's shiny outside it must be shiny inside.

The conversations remind me of the GOP and Democrat rhetoric. I am system integrator...at work I use window products because the huge Library of application hardware and software (plus I get paid to do that), but at home I use a iMac. My time at home is important. I do not want to spend my free time checking for viruses, cleaning up my registry, defraging and all the other maintenance and costs required to keep a PC healthy (yes, much of that is automatic). My iMac is not a speed demon so you guys probably have faster machines than I do, but it always works and my iMac works consistently without me having to nurse it. When you look at all the hidden costs of owning a personal computer, in my opinion and I know you may not care, in my opinion a iMac is a good value for your money.
~peace

PS - I have also have a Dell laptop running XP for when I bring work home, I try not to do that. I also have a laptop with Ubuntu..curiosity :-)

@mogwai

Are you really as clueless as you seem to be? How do you manage to survive?

Support:
Consumer Reports (as well as other magazines) regularly publish surveys based on hundreds of thousands of users and Apple is ALWAYS at or near the top of the list. Psystar, OTOH, is already $3 M in debt and they only had $300 K or so in revenues last year - and no profits. What makes you think that Psystar will be around to support their systems? Even ignoring that, Apple supports upgrades transparently. Software Update automatically updates the software when needed. For a Psystar machine, applying standard updates may brick the machine. You need to go back to Psystar and hope that they've gotten around to hacking the upgrade.

Your argument about components is ridiculous. So you have looked at a Psystar computer and it looked 'halfway decent' and that is supposed to prove that they're equal to a Mac? Macs are consistently rated as the best hardware available, not 'halfway decent' (even if one were to buy your description. My own experience is that Psystar computers are cheap junk. Period).

Besides, I don't think that the opinion of someone who has gone through 4 motherboards in 5 years because they buy cheap junk is worth much. In fact, it reinforces my position. In my 20 years of owning and using Macs, including multiple Macs most years, I don't recall EVER having a motherboard failure. Accepting the fact that you lose a motherboard nearly every year indicates that you don't have any concept at all of what a quality computer looks like.

sorry, i forgot about the support issue. i don't know how good psystars support is but i know apples is not that good. recently a gentleman went into a apple store to complain about his apple product and the girl taking his complaint called the cops on him. sheesh, i guess it's a crime to speak ill of the fruit. here's a link to nicks take on the terrible apple service. http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1557207/don-machead-guns

oh, wow, you were serious. far as i can tell, psystars computers look halfway decent. decent intel cpu, wierd, i think some fruity company uses those as well. they have nvidia 9400gt card but using linux, thats to be expected, wierd, i think some fruity company uses that as well. they are not saying what motherboard brand they are using but then i don't think that fruity company tells either. that would be the only issue i might have with them since my own home built pc has gone through 4 motherboards in the last 5 years from trying to save a penny. so tell you what, go buy a psystar and let me know if they use a cheap cruddy motherbaord and then i'll buy into your speel.

@ssjGogeta:
"What about the system that I can build for half the price of a configured Mac Pro, with same specs, only with HIGHER quality and overclock- and geek-friendly parts, and with 4 times as powerful graphics card (Radeon 5970)? Plus I can OC my processor to a nice 4GHz+"

What about it? (Even if it were true - I doubt you can build a dual quad Xeon system of the quality of the Mac Pro for half the cost).

First, we're talking about systems being sold by companies. That means that the labor has to be paid for (not just assembly labor, but also labor to research components, buy them, unpack them, and reship them - not to mention overhead). Did you include all those costs in your 'half the price'? Did you include the full cost of developing an OS? Then did you include the costs of supporting the OS and hardware? Warranty costs? That is why the "I can build it myself for $xxx" argument is not particularly relevant to the question of whether Macs are overpriced or not.

I just saw a review of top hardware for 2009. The top case was listed at $1,000 - just for the case. Good quality stuff does not come cheap. Invariably, when people do the silly stuff you're suggesting, they never use comparable quality. For example, I am sure that your 'half the price' system would include Core2Quad CPUs rather than Xeons - since that's what your ilk always does. One can argue that Xeons might not be needed for the average user, but it is completely wrong to argue that your cheaper Core2Quad system is the SAME - which is what you're doing.

If your argument were simply that someone can build their own fully functional system for less than buying a Mac Pro, I don't think anyone would disagree. But to argue that the cheap junk that most vendors sell is the same is wrong.

Try going to HP's web site and look up a dual Xeon system comparable to the Mac. It's going to cost roughly as much as the Mac - if not more. But it will still have an inferior OS, lower customer satisfaction, and so on.

My 500$ Dell runs OSX very well... no Rebel EFI, no special sauce, no refined tuning. It just works...

Unfortunately, the OS... it just sucks!

Long live Sinclair!

What about the system that I can build for half the price of a configured Mac Pro, with same specs, only with HIGHER quality and overclock- and geek-friendly parts, and with 4 times as powerful graphics card (Radeon 5970)? Plus I can OC my processor to a nice 4GHz+.

"The reason why Apple is doing well with their computers is because their marketing is catchy and people who don't know jack $hit about computers fall for it."

To whom it may con-serve: the above says it all, simply and clearly.

Oh Nikki, you're such a funny, funny man! You tilt at Stevie's windmills, yet he just keeps on keeping on, making machines that people snap up.

He's rollin' in the dough in Cupertino while you flail and flail at your little PC.

Hey, wasn't Windows 98 a great OS? Why, I thought you'd know since you seem to worship at the Microsoft trough.

You funny, funny, man!

Oh well, I tire of this. Bye!

Are you twelve?

It's the only reason I can come up with that justifies you finding yourself amusing.

Anyone older than twelve would know that typing in all caps and calling yourself SHOUTER is about as old as the typewriter!

@mogwai:
"So spelled out, what you are saying is apple is made out of junk components since the hardware is for the most part identical."

You effectively showed beyond any doubt that you don't have any clue what you're talking about.

To be specific, look at the case, power supply, and motherboards of the two computers. I have - and there's no comparison. In each case, Apple uses high quality, custom designed components while Psystar uses the cheapest bargain basement junk they can find.

Even those things that are allegedly the same (RAM, CPU, drives, etc), are different, Apple consistently uses tighter specs than the rest of the industry and doesn't use the cheapest junk out there. Psystar does.

Hard drives and perhaps the power cord are the only things that you could argue are the same in the two systems.

And that, of course, doesn't even get into the matter of Apple's world class software and support vs. Psystar's 'here today, gone tomorrow'.

Hey, it is easy to make your Linux look like mac, Mac4lin project, though for me the linux KDE is like ages more advanced than mac or even win 7 interface, more customizable, faster, better effects and also easier for the eyes to looks at, still it can be done .. and it is all free, works on normal hardware, yes there are three types, windows compatible hardware more resources more cpu more gpu, normal hardware which is enough to do day to day tasks, and some not to demanding gaming, and apple hardware, overpriced, 1 year old hardware that today you can get for less than half the price they demand ... the choice is yours

sshhh... Im trying to read here

YOU KNOW WHAT IF I CARE TO I CAN GO TO SONY STYLE STORE AND PAY MUCH MUCH MORE FOR A VAIO AND IT RUNS WIN7 AND DOESNT RUN OSX. STUFF THAT JOBS LOVERZ. MY MAC COMES WITH SPECIAL SAUCE, KNOW WHUT I MEAN VERN?

The reason why Apple is doing well with their computers is because their marketing is catchy and people who don't know jack $hit about computers fall for it.

This is just like what happens in a national election. The majority of votes are cast by people who don't understand the candidates platforms but they "like" them.

Same thing with Apple - there are a lot of computer-stupid people who like the way Apple machines look or like them because their equally computer-stupid neighbor has one.

Success? Yes but, for the wrong reasons. Any half-computer literate user will know that Macs are made to be "so simple" that it actually takes you MORE time to perform a familiar task.

Oh, and I just LOVE the overpriced hardware. Let's all donate to Apple. :P

If you see what the latests Windows 7 is or what Apple is....
You pay a whole lot of money for nothing.
Just look at Ubuntu, play with it for a few days and decide that no money is worth what Linux gives for free :-)

http://www.psystar.com/rebel_efi

I just downloaded the trial version. It's still very much available.

Your hillarious. Built out of junk components, thats too funny. So spelled out, what you are saying is apple is made out of junk components since the hardware is for the most part identical. I'm giving you the benifit of the doubt and assuming your post was satirical

"All the components are tuned to work with Mac OS X"

Care to explain how Psystar tuned all the components to run with OS X? How do you tune a power supply to work with OS X? Or a motherboard? Or RAM? Or anything else?

Once again, Nick Farrell manages to write an article with unfounded jabs at Apple and Mac users while demonstrating his complete ignorance of computer systems.

Oh, and btw, if you're going to write an article that's nothing more than an ad for a company, you might consider doing so for reputable companies rather than criminals. Go ahead and buy a Linux system from them if you wish. It won't be any cheaper than a competitive system, but it will be built of junk components - and when they fail, you're going to be on your own because there's no way Psystar can be around after their $2.7 M fine comes due.

Damn, and after I just picked up my new laptop and wiped the MS infection off of it for Linux. Maybe next time Payster

I know how to use a proper computer. MC026LL/a

Works great, looks fantastic, and I snagged it for $1100 BNIB. Please drop your Mac hatred, they are good machines. If they were half as horrible as you make them out to be, Cupertino wouldn't be enjoying the success it currently does.

With that, you are free to jump back into your socially awkward state. Enjoy your right hand tonight.