Apple tanks in the PC market
APPLE'S POLICY of charging high prices for mediocre spec but nice design has proved as successful in the recession as we said it would be.
IDC has confirmed that Apple's belief users will pay what it tells them to pay even if they can't afford to put food on the table has backfired.
The beancounters said that Apple, which the market researcher lists as the fifth-largest computer maker in the United States, saw Mac shipments fall 12.4 per cent from the same period a year ago to 1.2 million units. Apple's market share fell nearly one per cent to just 7.6 per cent.
All PC makers have shipped fewer computers in the first and second quarters than during the rest of the year, which typically has higher sales because of the back-to-school and holiday seasons.
Although Apple knocked a hundred bucks off the price of its PC range, it did nothing other than hold fast to its religious belief that users would still want its expensive toys.
As a result it has been hammered like every other high-end PC maker during the recession. Most of the market won't dream of buying a PC that costs more than $800 and Apple's least expensive notebook lists at $999.
Users have been buying low-cost PCs, most of them notebooks or smaller netbooks, a market in which Apple arrogantly has refused to play.
Acer, a leading low-cost computer maker, saw a 23.7 per cent increase in shipments in the second quarter worldwide and a 51 per cent rise in the United States, according to IDC.
The figures could be a lot worse too. Apple, unlike every other manufacturer, keeps its numbers secret and IDC has had to have a guess. That's why its figures are a bit different from Gartner's, which show Apple's shipments rising 2.5 per cent while losing some market share.
Fortunately for Apple it does not have to change its policy much. It has huge cash reserves and can adopt a Slartibartfast approach to economic problems and sleep until the recession ends and people can afford its expensive gear again. µ
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...you could at least get his name right - it's Slartybartfast...
please hand in your geek card on your way out.
If you are going to quote DA then at least check the spelling of Slartibartfast!
Wow, Nickie, you better be careful you don't misspell any of Doug's work again, you might be lynched. :)
As far as Apple is concerned... oh, who the hell cares about them anyway? Just another boutique vendor pandering to the ignorant artsy community. (I was gonna say gay instead of artsy, but didn't want to upset anyone and cause a flood of whinging. It gets a bit effeminate around here sometimes what with all the emotionally challenged posting, me thinks.)
Once again here goes Nick reporting half truths there were 2 estimates released yesterday Gartner and IDC split Wednesday, with Gartner saying Apple’s numbers were up 2.5% over the same quarter last year IDC claims they are down. These are only estimates Apple releases their numbers next week.
@Rich,
You have to be gay to buy a Mac? I did not know that.
I guess I will have to buy another brand of PC.
As soon as my Mom lets me out of the basement I will go down to Best Buy to check out the "PCs".
Apple's products are far from mediocre spec. iMac's use laptop parts and not desktop parts. This inherently makes them slightly more expensive, not to mention non-standard items like the motherboard form factor. They use the very best laptop processors and parts, and not those of the $800 laptops you see in those Microsoft ads. Also, they have 8-bit IPS screens on the 24" models and not the 6-bit TN screens you see on ordinary PC's. Have you bothered to check the cost of IPS screens? Expensive...
Their notebooks, despite the Microsoft ads, use DDR3 - not DDR2 - memory, and the fastest, newest Intel processors. They also have very good, long lasting batteries, and not the 3 cell junk you find on the shelf at Best Buy. Just go to Dell's website and start customizing an XPS laptop that's close to the same specs as a MacBook Pro. You'll quickly find out how expensive that level of hardware is.
Lastly, Apple subsidizes its software in the hardware costs. When getting the latest Windows costs $199 retail, Mac OS X has traditionally cost $99, and Snow Leopard supposedly will cost $29 - and you get the "ultimate" version. The same goes for their other offers. iWork is a measily $79. I concede that it doesn't have the power features of MS Office, but Office costs $149 for the "Home and Student" version alone.
The Inquirer is always trying to be funny and trying to fan the flames, but let's be, at least, a little bit accurate about it.
Looking closely at those numbers I see IDC is reporting "Unit shipments". Apple sell $1000+ computers at the higher end of the market. Think about what matters most ... High volume low margin sales, or lower volume higher margin sales? As a APPL stock owner, this report is meaningless.
Plus, why buy a netbook & a phone when I can get an iPhone that performs most of their function.
Finally, has any one actually tried to use a Netbook? If you think this is the solution to replace a notebook or desktop, you are sadly mistaken.
The screens are too small, the keys too cramped, the processor too slow, and the graphics suck. I bet you most of the "netbook" owners have a desktop too.
Bottom line, why buy 3 devices (netbook, desktop and phone), when 2 will do (iphone, and a Macbook)?
A Former PC owner who just recently bought a MacBookPro
Billy
I just bought my first personal laptop (used company stock before) a Dell Studio XPS 16. I got most of the part upgrades minus a BlueRay drive or 9 cell battery. This machine is the closest you can get to a Macbook in styling and features (minus battery life). I spoke with a sales person and got a better config and deal by using Dell Financing (paid off immediately, I don't work for Dell)
My Systems specs:
XPS 1640, Intel Core 2 Duo T9550(2.66GHz/1066Mhz FSB/6M L2 Cache)
4GB, DDR3, 1067 MHz 2 Dimm
500GB 7200RPM Free Fall SensorSeagate Hard Drive
ATI Mobility RADEON HD 3670 - 512MB
8X DVD+/-RW Slot Load Drive
16.0 inch Wide Screen 16:9 1080p FullHD RGBLED LCD
3 year warrenty
$1,585.84 (including taxes and shipping)
Similarly speced (slightly smaller display, added 3 year warrenty, Macs have better batteries, weaker video card) Macbook Pro 15
$2,498.00 (free shipping, not sure about taxes)
So, Apple fanboys....STFU
re: "Gay" "Effeminate" to use Macs ?
That sounds like a well thought out technical assessment.
You're some teenage kid in high school, right ?
Trailmixx, I just priced this macbook pro you suggest:
$1795
I don't know where Trailmixx got his/her pricing? ...just another PC fan with an inability to get the facts straight.
$.02: I'll pay $200 for a computer that runs OSX anyday.
Dude (who bought a Dell),
You need to compare Apples to Apples ...
On the Apple side we are comparing this MacBook Pro... $2,299.00
15-inch: 2.8GHz
Intel Core 2 Duo
4GB Memory
500GB hard drive1
SD card slot
Built-in 7-hour battery2
NVIDIA GeForce 9400M + 9600M GT with 512MB
Ships: Within 24hrs
Free Shipping
Current pricing on that that Dell that most closely matches the MacBook Pro above ... $2,350
Components
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T9600 (6MB cache/2.80GHz/1066Mhz FSB)
Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium Edition SP1, 64-bit
Microsoft® Works 9
1 Year Return to Depot Service, Complete Care and Technical Support
Edge-to-Edge FullHD Widescreen 16.0 inch RGBLED LCD (1920x1080) W/2.0 MP
4GB Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1067MHz (2 Dimms)
500GB 5400 RPM SATA Hard Drive
ATI Mobility RADEON® HD 3670 - 512MB
8X DVD+/- RW(DVD/CD read/write) Slot Load Drive
Dell Wireless 1515 802.11n Half Mini-Card
Dell Wireless 370 Bluetooth Module (2.1+EDR)
High Definition Audio 2.0
Additional 9-Cell Battery
Obsidian Black with Leather Accent
Essentials
McAfee SecurityCenter with anti-virus, anti-spyware, firewall, 30-Days
Please contact me with more details
Dell Remote Access, free basic service
Accessories
Logitech V220 Cordless Optical USB Mouse - Ruby Red
Also Includes
6-cell Battery
Adobe® Acrobat® Reader 9, Multiple Languages
Windows Vista™ Premium
Intel® Centrino™ 2
So the Dell is actually more expensive, PLUS here is what you don't get with a Dell ...
1. Battery life for the MacBook Pro is 7+ hrs, on the Dell, 2 hrs, maybe. (This is a HUGE BENEFIT!)
2. Apple includes a backlit keyboard, how about the Dell? Nope!
3. Apple has a pretty elegant design and is cooler to the touch. Which would you rather be seen with?
4. Not all LED displays are the same. Be assured that with your Dell you got the CHEAP VERSION that looks crappier
5. Vista is a performance hog, not MacOS X (remember, it's now based on Unix!)
6. What happens when you start buying Microsoft software for your DELL?
MS Office $137 (student version)
MS Office Biz $330
MS Office Pro $420
Apple sells iWork for $49 and they offer Family packs (5 user license) for $99
That's a steal!!
7. Finally, the touch pad on the MacBookPro is a dream to use. In every laptop I have used, (Sony, DELL, Toshiba, IBM) the track pads SUCKED, and I always needed a mouse handy. With the MacBook Pro, someone finally did a Touch pad right!
I will concede there was a time when Apple offered less for a higher price, but that simply is not the case anymore.
Billy
(A Former PC owner who just recently bought a MacBookPro)
You are both wrong.
Let me clarify my statement.
I was attempting to highlight the price differences at the hardware level only. Let me start by describing how it was that I came to the prices and specs for the two machines. I will address your software complaint afterwards. I also have to question your method of configuration for the Mac you specified, there is a 2.66Ghz Cpu option. And did you change the HD to the 500GB 7200 RPM option and add the 3 year support contract? I think not.
The exact Dell system that I configured could not be done so through the Dell sales web portal. My main concern was that I required a 7200 rpm hard disk. I therefore contacted a sales representative via phone to determine if I could get such an option. I could and was offered a discount for talking to a sales rep, plus I was offered a further discount if I chose to purchase by opening a Dell Financial Services account. I made the purchase after I was approved for said account, intending to make payment in full as soon as possible (Which I did). The price of $1,585.84 that I listed is the total cost to me after making the one and only payment after delivery. I did not add the 9 cell battery, I kept the 6.
Now, the MacBook Pro 15” model which I configured on the Apple store portal is the 2.66 Ghz CPU model which has a base price of $1,999.00 listed as including free shipping and no indication of applicable taxes. It also lists a NVIDIA GeForce 9400M + 9600M GT with 256MB. I added the 7200 RPM 500GB drive option and the 3 year apple care option. These two options are what I decided helped best match the MacBook to what I purchased, which brings the portal quoted cost to $2,498.00.
While I am uncertain of the options for purchase through Apple, I’d wager that the discounts that I received would not be mirrored. I’d have to say that your attempt at the comparison was flawed at best.
As far as your other points:
There is no dispute about the battery life of the new Macs, amazing, but not one of my concerns as I use this machine as a desktop replacement for mobile recording. I do only get around 2 hours on battery, but I also am not one to carry a laptop often a
It does have a backlit keyboard
I dont really care about the apperance, for me computers are tools. I was only mentioning looks as the Macbook IS a great looking machine (that looks like all the other macs out there) and wanted to point out that my comparison includes a fine looking exterior as well. Your statement makes you sound shallow.
Not all led display are the same, but the reviews and color tests for this disply place it as one of the best diplays you can get with out shelling out thousands.
As far as software goes, I can download Gimp, Open Office, Video Spin and others that are amoung a large selection of free software.
I also run Windows 7 as my main OS. The myth that OSX is less resource intensive is laughable, how many Process IDs do you get when you do a PS -ef? Oh, and your OS is not capable of pre caching your most frequently used applications in momory for fast app start times? Thats the innovative use of hardware one wants. Also, one can go through the trouble of improving any OS configuration, if willing.
Touchpads, I cant comment on, Macbooks have a bigger one, but for my needs, I use a mouse.
Im not here to say Apple makes bad products, but what you get for the money out of the box for what I speced for both products, there is a huge difference, there are tradeoffs, I didn't need 7 hours of battery, that would be nice. And rest assured, while I do ofter drink M$ Koolaid, I am fully comfortable behind most modern OSs.
What else?
Trailmixxx,
So to sum up your comments, "you paid less, and you got less", is that about right?
So how is Apple ripping people off again?
Bill
Very astute Bill.
The only differences in hardware that I would consider there really being a matter of less would be:
For Macbook
A)Better Trackpad
B)Way better battery
C)Aluminum Unibody
D)Magnetic power interconnect
For the XPS Studio
A)Argueably better video subsystem
Is that worth the $913 difference(minus tax on the Macbook)? To some maybe. My concerns were:
-Internal drive performance baring SSD
-Greater than average CPU capabilities
-Quality video card with 512MB of descreet ram (preferably ATI).
I paid less and got what I needed from the system, not features that I find unnecessary. Heres the crux of the matter, Apple gives you limited choice and you pay more, based on cosmetic features alone. I didnt say Apple was ripping anyone off did I? They just have a limited selection and when you compare a system that is as close as possible, there isnt any more real functionality value. Let us not forget, the company that manufactures Macbooks also manufactures Sony Vaios.
I was just pointing out that Apple isn't some way overpriced brand. They deliver the goods for the money: quality, very current parts/architechture and their unbelievably great software IS subsidized on the cost of the Mac. Like I said, OS upgrades, iWork, iLife...all are cheaper because the cost is built-in up front on the Mac.
Ignore the Microsoft propoganda commercials where people buy $800 garbage inferior laptops instead of a quality $2000 MacBook Pro. I'm not bashing them for not wanting to pay that much, but Apple just doesn't hock junk on the market.
Buying a Mac isn't for everyone, just like using Linux isn't for everyone. But, for those that take the plunge, it's a solid investment in a great system.
Okay I went to the Apple website and ran a configuration on a MacBook Pro 15-inch. I matched the specs above like the guy did, (except for the three year warranty) and I get a list price of $2149.00 before taxes. Is it possible that Apple charges different prices in different areas of the United States? I know if I go to Best Buy I can get a Mac Book Pro for cheaper by haggling, but this seems weird, as my price doesn't match what that other person said his specced out to be. Weird.
I included the Apple care package as it matches what I had purchased from Dell. The support packages are optional on both systems.
Apple makes great products. It would be easy to consider them the best. Until you look deeper and find they really arent the annointed gifts from in the know genius' one would expet from all of the hype about them. The reasons for liking Apple products are pretty sound. But from personal experience I have had more issues with Mac products than other off the shelf systems. Overheating laptops (I have used Apple products for work in the past), failing display adapters, broken superdrives and kernel panics after installing updates onto a clean new system. Consider those experiences which tell me Apples operating system is not infallable and niether is thier hardware. My personal experience has not steared me away, but finding the actual value has. All complicated systems will have some failures, some get more publicity. And by fanboys, I meant the faithful, not the average users.
Actually if you know what you're doing, netbooks are fine for many things.
Install and optimise a Linux distro (not many steps involved if you use a distro that lends itself to this). An eee pc or similar can become as good as any 12' form factor notebook.
This gives you a fast boot sequence, and fest web surfing, editing small/vector graphics files.
We use netbooks to develop and test software, not our primary machines (cant replace desktop here) however productivity is not hampered on the day that someone has to do a lot of running around + coding. The eee pc is also better when you put in a faster SSD drive.
I think the problem with people who don't like them is they treat them as a fully fledged PC, (which notebooks of any size fail anyway even a 17" macbook pro = absolute fail for desktop replacement for sw development, or graphics intensive tasks).
Trailmixxx,
Your numbers are wrong. The difference isn't $913 cheaper for the DELL. The DELL is actually more EXPENSIVE when comparing a MacBook Pro to the same Spec DELL.
In your case, in reading your posts above, you got some "special cheaper deal" or something, but when I go to both web sites and try and put together comparable computers from Apple and DELL, I posted what I saw.
The DELL is clearly more expensive for "less".
Billy
Just to join this debate, at least in the UK. Went to Apple and Dell sites, and compared middle range Powerbook 15's with XPS 16. Minimal extra configuration, just chose what was on offer, with an uplift to a 3yr warranty.
This is what I found
Powerbook 15 - £1772
2.66GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
4GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x2GB
320GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm
SuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
MacBook Pro 15-inch Glossy Widescreen Display
Backlit Keyboard (British) & User’s Guide (English)
AppleCare Protection Plan for MacBook Pro (w/or w/o Display) - Auto-enroll
Dell XPS16 £1408
Genuine Windows Vista® SP1 Home Premium (64 BIT)
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor T9900 (3.06GHz, 1066MHz, 6MB)
OFFICE SOFTWARE Microsoft® Works 9.0 / English
LCD Black Leather back cover : 16" (inch) Truelife 1080p Full HD RGBLED Edge to Edge Display edit
4096MB 1067MHz Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM 500GB (7,200rpm) Free Fall Sensor Hard Drive
3 Year Premium Warranty Support
Primary 6-cell 56 WHr Lithium Ion battery
OPTICAL DRIVE INTERNAL BLU-RAY ROM COMBO
GRAPHICS CARD 512MB ATI® Radeon™ HD 3670 graphics card
TV TUNER AND REMOTE CONTROL Integrated DVB-T TV Tuner and Antenna
Several things to note, I use a mix of PC's and Macs, so I'm not really biased to either, but before people start saying Vista is crap, etc, it does work well on a suitably configured machine, and yes, Windows 7 works even better, heck I've even preordered 3 copies, first time I've bought an OS that didn't come with a PC.
Clearly from a spec and cost point the Dell, wins hands down.
I mean, come on, 3.06 vs 2.66 (not a big deal actually), 1920x1200 vs 1440x900 (this is a big deal), 7200rpm vs 5400rpm, TV tuner...., lol.
Before ppl start flaming about cost of software, etc, I already use Office 2007 Enterprise and have the Mac equivalent at no added cost. I don't think you should even start to think iworks = MS Office, at least for serious work.
I conceed that the long battery life is phenomenal on the Mac, but in all honesty, I cannot remember the last time I was on the road that long away from a power source. Besides I have a lovely HP 2730P tablet that gives me 6-7 hrs as well as being much lighter than both of the above.
And for people who argue that the LED on the Dell's are crap, well, they may not be as good in terms of pure color fidelity (arguable actually), but for me, I prefer more resolution. In any case for real work, nothing beats a well configured 30' panel.
So, would I choose a better configured dell and save 350 pounds, yes you bet I would. And with Windows 7 coming around the corner, unless Apple comes out with something really amazing, we won't be purchasing Apples anytime soon
"Your numbers are wrong. The difference isn't $913 cheaper for the DELL. The DELL is actually more EXPENSIVE when comparing a MacBook Pro to the same Spec DELL."
Good grief. The point trailmixxx was making is that he found the machine he wanted considerably cheaper than anything that Apple offered. That doesn't change by going to the Dell website and trying to add all the options to inflate the price or by ignoring the required features on the Apple side (support and the 7200RPM HDD).
The biggest problem is not that Macs are overpriced but that there's very little flexibility - there is no budget range and there simply isn't even close to the level of customisability. Apple fans can argue till they're blue in the face that it's to maintain quality or "you get what you pay for" but at the end of the day most people have to pay more to get the system they want with Apple, hence their low market share.
I don't understand why so many people take everything so personally, from ATI/nVidia, to Intel/AMD, to the X360/PS3, to Apple/PC, to Windows/OSX, and such. Certainly I can understand leaning one way or the other but if the opposition offers a better product or a better price then it makes sense to go with that option.
For those of you wrapped up in the DHell versus rotten Apple debate: I wouldn't have either one.
DHell: Their products are cheap junk, no matter how much you pay for them. DHell has outsourced all R&D to the Chinese because they're too cheap to pay for anything else, they don't test the systems like they used to....they just power the unit on and if it comes on, they just ship it out. Their warranties aren't worth the "paper" they're printed on; their tech support gets penalised for dispatching parts or a new system on warranty because it costs the company too much money. Their sales people, tech support and customer care lies to customers all the time. I know all this because I used to work for them. If you don't believe me, feel free to check out http://ihatedell.net
Rotten Apple: Their notebooks are harder than hell to work on because Apple is too preoccupied about looks. You get less choices for customisation. The cost is much higher, comparitively speaking, for equal or substandard hardware, and Mac OS X isn't any more secure than m$. Any illusion of security is brought on by market share, or lack of it. Crackers simply don't mess with it because Windows is used far more. Finally, ever since Rotten Apple switched to Intel processors, they're nothing but a glorified PC. Back when they used PowerPC chips, they were worth something, but not now.
Myself, I only buy Toshiba notebooks. Their product quality and reliability is excellent.
Apple products are designed to be a premium brand like Gucci or BMW, people do not realize this.
nobody complains that BMW's are overpriced!!!! when a Ford does exactly the same thing!!! except the the BMW is better built and better quality
Same thing PC (Ford) - Mac (BMW)
If memory serves me correctly, all nVidia 8000 series display adapters, and the 9000 series are suspect as well, are failing, no matter the manufacturer. Driver problems in some machines? Sure, even the nVidia drivers from nVidia, themselves, have caused problems in Linux before. It's normal.
Batteries overheating? Wait... Didn't Toshiba and Sony have a rash of exploding batteries some time ago? Didn't Dell have something to do with that, too? I guess Apple's stuff is just junk, huh?
Look, you can knock any manufacturer. No one is perfect. But, I've owned Macs before, and many PC's, including Dell and ones that I have built myself, and I must say that as far as OEM systems are concerned, Apple just has a higher quality product, in my experience. If you go to a Best Buy, where they sell Macs, and compare a MacBook Pro with something comparable from Dell, HP, Sony, or whoever and don't walk away feeling like the MacBook Pro isn't a more high-end product, you've got your head up your butt... It's a premium product.
You have clearly missed the point of a *net*book. Of course people with netbooks have a desktop or another laptop, as netbooks are not intended to be a primary computer. You may as well complain that a car doesn't make a suitable boat.
As for the Dell vs. Apple debate, why are you guys bickering over specs and options? Any self-respecting Inq reader should be able to change out a laptop's hard drive and RAM to avoid hugely inflated "options" prices. And arguing about a 5% difference in CPU speed (2.8 vs. 2.66GHz) as if it's significant is ridiculous. Get a grip.
I mostly agree with you guys, take Dells ultra slim 13.4" Adamo laptop, (compets with the Air) nice design and it starts out at $2000 and goes up to about over $3,000. That seems about equal or more to me than Apple. It then comes down to OS desire, me, I choose OS X any day. I love it, better than Windows in my book.
Gave my sister my old G4 Powerbook, mistake, should have kept it. Now I am one of those guys who supported Acer (in the article) this year and picked up a cheap 14" laptop 2.16 core 2 for $400 with free shipping, immediately killed Millennium II, aka Vista and have been running Ubuntu for about six months now. Linux is not bad and I am glad I have used it full time but it is not OS X or the pleasure of using it on a Macbook Pro.
I am hoping the rumours are true and Apple will start offering matte finish screens on all their Macbook Pros this year. The track pad on the Macbook Pros is unbeatable, it is a pleasure to work with. The automatic backlit keyboard is an awesome nice touch too.
I have my eye on a new 13" inch for Christmas. That will give Snow Leopard a couple months to get evalutaed and any bugs to get fixed.
Most of all the Mac Flamers here and everywhere have probably never used OS X let alone have owned a Mac before. Maybe they seen one at Best Buy and played with it a couple minutes and now consider themselves OS X Professionals, LOL.
so extremely biased its actually entertaining. When this site goes tits up ill have extra large fries with my burger. No semi intelligent publishing company would hire you to write. bue-bye
That Ford-BMW is an old argument and is not applicable anymore to Mac-PC since those automobiles doesn't use the same engine. Apple now uses Intel processors, which makes them almost a PC, only using a different OS, and "cool" aesthetics.
I am so sick and tired of stupid people comparing Apple products to other company. Let me say this again, Apple Laptop and Dell Basically use the same Intel, Nvidia, Ati, hard drive, ram, etc. Unless Apple use something esle, they are the same piece of shit on the market.
Now, as far as whether an Apple piece of shit cost more or less than Dell.... IF YOU ARE SMART, you can get your shit for cheap(as far as Dell goes)... with Apple, there is basically no Discount.
Please Messrs. Flamewarlovers, can I join the inevitable Windows/PC/Anything Non-Apple fanboy vs Apple fanboy fight - spawned due to the fact someone so much as mentioned Apple in an article - too?
I am not an Apple fanboy. The only Mac I own, these days, is an ancient PowerPC 604e based machine that's all boxed up. It doesn't even run Mac OS X. I am down to 1 PC, a machine I built myself because I consider the OEM parts either too lowend for what you pay, or too high priced - as in Alienware. I've built an Alienware level machine for less than a grand.
I currently have Windows 7 RC, Mandriva Linux 2009.1, and Linux Mint 7 Gloria loaded. I use Linux 99% of the time.
However, I'm just stating the facts. Macs have as current gen architechture they can, depending on the how recently they've been updated, an feature quality parts. Let's face it, there's a huge difference between running an ECS motherboard and a quality Gigabyte motherboard. Apple puts the quality in there. I've got my eye on either an iMac or a MacBook Pro as my next machine. They are very much worth it.
If you've ever used Apple software, especially for any length of time, you'll appreciate the simplicity of it, yet the power is all there. Other software vendors, geared toward Macs, produce similar levels of refined software that's very simple to use, yet very powerful within the simplicity. BeLight software is one example.
Many of you have used nothing but Windows in your entire life and never understand how elegant something else is simply because it's foreign. You can't seem to remove yourself from they way you've always seen things, and used things. There's a whole world out there and you need to explore it.
HDX18t Series:
Operating system: Genuine Windows Vista Ultimate with Service Pack 1 (64-bit)
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo Processor T9900 (3.06 GHz, 6 MB L2 Cache, 1066MHz FSB)
Memory 4GB DDR3 System Memory (2 Dimm)
Hard drive: 640GB 7200RPM SATA Dual Hard Drive (320GB x 2) with HP ProtectSmart Hard Drive Protection
Graphics card 1GB Nvidia GeForce GT 130M - For DDR3 Memory
Display 18.4" diagonal High Definition HP Ultra BrightView Infinity Display (1920x1080p)
Primary optical drive: Lightscribe Blu-Ray ROM with SuperMulti DVD+/-R/RW Double Layer
Personalization Webcam + Fingerprint Reader with HP Imprint Finish (Fluid)
Networking: Intel Next-Gen Wireless-N Mini-card
TV & entertainment experience: HP Integrated HDTV Hybrid Tuner
Keyboard: HP Color Matching Keyboard
Primary battery: 8 Cell Lithium Ion Battery
Productivity software Microsoft(R) Office Home and Student 2007
Security software Norton Internet Security(TM) 2009 - 15 Month Subscription
HP extended service plans: 3-year Total One with Accidental Damage Protection
Since everyone was doing a Dell comparison i figured i would do the "dreaded" HP comparison. For about the same cost, you get a laptop with a lot more power and features. For a extra $100 you get a Quad core CPU.
why wast your money on dell or mac when you can get a thinkpad with more features at a lesser price...
ThinkPad W500 $1,559.00
Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo processor T9600 (2.8GHz 1066MHz 6MBL2)
Operating system: Genuine Windows Vista Business
Recovery DVD: Windows XP Professional RDVD
Display type: 15.4" WUXGA TFT 1920x1200
System graphics: ATI Mobility FireGL V5700 (512MB VRAM) with Intel AMT
Total memory: 2 GB PC3-8500 DDR3 SDRAM 1067MHz SODIMM Memory (1 DIMM)
Pointing device: UltraNav (TrackPoint and TouchPad)
Hard drive: 250 GB Hard Disk Drive,
Optical device: DVD Recordable 8x Max Dual Layer, Ultrabay Slim (Serial ATA)
Card Reader: 7 in 1 Media Card Reader
System expansion slots: Express Card Slot & PC Card Slot
Bluetooth: Integrated Bluetooth PAN
the only bad thing about the thinkpad now is that the keyboard is move up closer to the screen so that stupid and useless touch-pad can fit.
i dare you to compare these spec's with a similar dell or Mac 1920x1200<<<
The article is crap.
Apple is doing extremely well. They were a small hardware company that has grown enormously in the last few years, based on success after success. Yes Mercedes Benz sales are down, so are Toyota's, and the personal computer market is big enough to allow for higher end products (and apple equipment is just slightly above average) as well as cheaper stuff like Acer. What everyone keeps forgetting is that all computers are getting faster and/or cheaper on a continuous basis, while things like cars, medical insurance, bran muffins, what have you are getting more expensive and lousier in a lot of ways. Cars are full of plastic now, super complex and super expensive to repair, bran muffins are using crap ingredients, preservatives, and genetically modified grains.
Count your blessings that at least one area of modern life is actually improving our lot, while the other industries like energy just sit around on their asses and rip us off whilst supressing the inevitable widespread use of solar power.
Imagine if the govt. had gone to intel and said I want 400 million square feet of solar panels in two year, here is $10 billion dollars, get busy... 25% of the energy would be solar, and save $10 billion a year...a solar cell is a trivial component compared to a CPU; intel is making things with over 100 million transistors, and yet solar costs more per watt than it did 5 years ago! So why don't you dell loving idiots start putting your energy on topics that matter!
Why introduce this political crap into our debate? Get off your soapbox...
i must admit i love reading these posts by the fanatics....entertainment for free :)
but seriously ppl...you should buy for what you need. ie myself i play games so i buy a pc and never a mac. no games on apple os and dont start on dual boot as thats the same reason i dont go linux either...its convienient to just leave everything open in the background and not have to restart it all after restarting into another os.
if you check email and surf a bit why spend more than 400 bucks on a cheap laptop of whatever brand...if it works go for it. if you can afford more and wanna waste some $ ...well then fine.
ppl ranting that macs are better or vice versa need to get a life. it is fun but you must learn tbat ppl that are fixated on a certain brand (ie apple) are NEVER going to change no matter what empirical evidence you present....thats why that are called fanatics ;)
if its in your price range and will actually do what you want it to do then buy it...if you feel the need to spend mega $ on something because some corporation or fantasy you have thinks you are gonna get a better quality product even tho it all comes from china and has the same parts in it (ie a mac...yes i think they are pricey :P) cause it makes you feel good or you can try lord it over someone...then do it and be happy :P
but do it away from me :P
What is it ? Is it the Food ? Water ?
All you have to do is listen to these retarted people justify why you should PAY MORE for a Mac and you can see why Apple loves these people so much.
I mean for gods sake can anyone be more stupid ?
Companies spend Millions promoting there Products through marking to try to convince people that there product is the BEST and your should only buy IT . Apple has really got a firm grip on the Mass of idiots in it's hand to know that no matter what they make the SHEEP or Flock of loyal supports will buy it and defend it till they are blue in the face no matter HOW MUCH IT COST.
Personally I coudlnt care Less . If your happy with a Dell then good for you. You don't need to buy a Gucci hand bag for $1000 just justify how great it is and all the other Handbags out there for less are crap . Thats is just retarted. Man , the Coperate big wigs sure have got a huge following of SHEEP !!
" posted by : Hss1, 18 July 2009 ""
" Same thing PC (Ford) - Mac (BMW) ""
"However, I'm just stating the facts. Macs have as current gen architechture they can"
haha bullshit, where's the quad core apple laptop? tablet? ok netbook... err uhh SLI gamming... nevermind.
How come when people are quoting systems for comparison they are getting the prices wrong?
Dave compared a MacBook Pro 2.66 (£1772 = CORRECT!) vs a Dell XPS 16 (£1408 = WRONG!)
Dave, your MacBook Pro price is correct, but your Dell price is waaaaaaay off.
Here are the specs you listed and the prices I discovered on their respective UK websites ...
MacBook Pro - £1,772
2.66GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
4GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x2GB
320GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm
SuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
MacBook Pro 15-inch Glossy Widescreen Display
Backlit Keyboard (British) & User’s Guide (English)
AppleCare Protection Plan for MacBook Pro (w/or w/o Display) - Auto-enroll
Dell XPS16 (£2,217.98)
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor T9900 (3.06GHz, 1066MHz, 6MB)
Genuine Windows Vista® SP1 Home Premium (64 BIT) - English
Microsoft® Works 9.0 / English - (Does not include Microsoft® Word)
Black Leather back cover : 16" (inch) Truelife 1080p Full HD RGBLED Edge to Edge Display
4096MB 1067MHz Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM [2x2048]
320GB Free Fall Sensor (7200RPM) Hard Drive
3 Year Premium Warranty Support
Primary 6-cell 56 WHr Lithium Ion battery
INTERNAL BLU-RAY ROM COMBO (BLU-RAY, DVD AND CD READ, DVD & CD WRITE) SLOT LOAD DRIVE WITH SOFTWARE
512MB ATI® Radeon™ HD 3670 graphics card
Intel WiFi Link 5100 (802.11 a/b/g/n 1X2) 1/2 MiniCard
Dell Wireless 370 Bluetooth Module
Integrated DVB-T TV Tuner and Antenna
Dave, I did the exact same quote as you (except I didn't "upgrade" the Hard drive from 320GB to 500GB). My price should be cheaper, right? How come your price is so low?
Frankly, looking at my quote, I should also lower the CPU (from 3.06Ghz to 2.8Ghz) to more accurately compare the systems further (Dell doesn't offer a 2.6Ghz option), and if I do that ...
Dell XPS16 (£1,887.99)
The Dell system is still more expensive.
Bottom line, you if are still thinking Apple systems cost more, you are "living in the past". Yes, indeed, I will grant you, Apple did charge more and offer less, but that is "ancient history" now! Do you own comparison, and get your numbers right!
Let me end with a quote by noted British economist John Maynard Keynes, "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?"
Billy (A former Apple basher, when I had evidence to support my claim. That's not the case anymore.)
All these comparisons between dell and apple are stupid.
Dell are ALWAYS going to be less expensive than Apple unless you add some crazy option like Blue Ray drives (like everybody above is doing) or adding useless software to inflate the end price(vista ultimate? who gets that?). And thats another thing, you can't get Blue-Ray movies on OSX (like a BMW with a cassette deck, lawl stupid analogies for stupid people).
PCs have always been and always be much more configurable and customizable than Apple products. All Apple sells are "shiny expensive boxes" to dummies that don't know better.
You hopeless fanboys just keep telling the lie that the ApDel is more expensive than the Delple. Hah! I went to the ApDel site and configured it in a hundred different ways until I managed to prove my opinion. I AM NOT BIASED OK? Delple is way better than Apdel or the other way around I can't remember but I AM RAGING ON THE INTERNET!!!1!
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/07/21/apple_profits_rise_15_on_sales_of_2_6m_macs_5_2m_iphones.html
setting records for profit and units sold.. go Macintosh?
It'll be interesting to see the negative Farrell article tomorrow... just a warning to folks, it may take a little longer than normal as the earning #'s were pretty good.
Mac sales up 4% from a year ago... while the overall PC market is down 3-5% from a year ago. I'd love to 'tank' like this in the current economic environment. He doesn't seem to understand Apple is still a relatively 'niche' market and you can't apply the general industry trends and rely on random cherrypicked analyst projections.
Just a hunch, but I'd expect the article to be focused on the ipod results.
I don't mind the good nature Apple bashing, but when data is selectively plucked to paint a negative article in advance of earnings (which is pretty much a quarterly thing for Nick) - it's time for someone at the INQ to show a modicum of integrity and ask Nick to keep his pieces to the opinion/flame based varieties.
...do not necessarily make the OSX better.
I find it very slow (Mac Pro 2 x 2.66 dual-core Xeons, 8GB RAM). Every single operation has lag built in it. How that translates into "smoother experience" is beyond me. I prefer Windows for development, fun, browsing, virtualization... Which, for me, is everything. Cygwin or just ssh to servers for the rest.
I satisfied my interest with OSX... can I go back to Windows now?
the quarterly results show, that Nick Farrel is one of the most clueless 'journalist' on this planet - but at least that's nothing that needed to be proved
So -
Sales "Tanking" up 4% from this time last year
Market Share "Tanking" up 0.3% to 8.7%
Obviously this is some new definition of the word "Tanking" of which I was not previously acquainted.
If I relied o Nick Farrel for my tech market prognostications I'd have lostbig money on my Apple shares.
Instead .. sales are up, shares are up, and I'm a happy chappy.
(Use Windows and Mac ... both have their strengths and weaknesses.)
Well, the figures everyone else has posted prove that the perception, and justly so, of many buyers is that the Mac experience, and the quality hardware they provide, are worth their hard earned money.
To the contrary, most found that Vista wasn't, and I predict Win7 will do better than Vista, though not as good as XP did when it was launched. You can put lipstick on a pig all you want...
According to NPD Market Research, Mac's make up 91% of the market for computers above $1000. You hear that? NINETY-ONE PERCENT!
Premium... And the only Mac I own is obsolete, so I'm not biased. I'm just realistic. It's all in the software and the vertical control and integration Apple puts into its products plus premium hardware components.
Macs are only made for homosexuals, graphic artist and celebrities, just not for the general consumers which is more than 90% which uses windows. If you don't belive my statements, go google homosexuality and how it relates to macs. It's why they use macs, they are irrational and right brained, not left brain like most normal people who are logical. There isn't a single logical arguement good about macs, all they have are attack ads and defensive behavior.
... need to just line up and compare penis size, or some suitable facsimile thereof, and stop pi$$ing on and on about things that simply don't matter.
At least when you put your money where your mouth is, no pun intended, some you you might actually get a date and burn off some of that decades-old frustration energy.
Gotta shut down my whatever-it-is and get to bed ... my bride awaits.