Opera says Windows 7 'tweak' is not enough

Sooner or later the EU is going to get fed up of this . Opera wont be happy until Windows ships with a comprehensive list of all browsers ready to install .

They will then complain that they aren't at the top of the list .

Even if MS did this the end user would dither for all of 2 seconds before going for something familiar which in most cases is IE .

Why waste all this time and effort . People who want to change browser can do and will . Those who just want to use the thing will use whatever is in front of them .

Its only the browser makers whining . 90% of users don't give a monkeys . The 10% that do install what they want .

So whats the big deal here ? Spend more time making a good attractive looking browser that is better than any of them and I will use it . At the moment for me it's Firefox .

Windows reuses IE components for rendering display items. That's not a browser. That's an Operating System. Just because YOUR product is closed source and does not reuse components from other libraries (which is a technique nearly every OS and program uses) doesn't preclude from Microsoft using this very common code reuse solution.

Microsoft called you (and the EU) on your bluff. You said all or nothing, and Microsoft said "We'll take the nothing." And now you're whining that the nothing isn't good enough. Sounds like you better start contacting OEMs about including an Opera install CD with a system purchased.

Oh, wait, that's not a good solution, that means you would have to spend money and effort on marketing your product rather than riding Microsoft's coattails by having _your_ product bundled with Windows.

So take a company who put no effort into marketing their browser and who sold it for years when all the others were free and let them get an operating system changed?

What utter toss. The fact of the matter is Windows uses HTML under the hood to render a lot of stuff, from Help, through bits of Explorer.

Even when you set another browser to be the default the HTML rendering engine the OS uses does not change. That's a spurious complaint.

Hey Opera try marketing your browser, that might get you on more desktops, rather than doing nothing but whine.

Providing value added services to an OS is prviding value added services.

If Opera wants to "sell" a browser make somthing worth buying.

Chrome doesn't even render 1/2 the sites I visit correctly.

Make your own dang OS already.

This is like a competing tire manufacturer whining about GM putting thier own crappy brand of tires on the car - ya kinda need them to go anywhere.

I agree with the comments above. Opera is just whining because they don't have the market share. It's like trying to force Intel to market AMD products. Seriously, are you insane?

It's odd that, isn't it?

If you assume that IE has achieved its position by market dominance, then how about the remainder?

First up is Firefox, with a fairly large gap to Safari and another gap to Chrome.

Opera is less popular than three non commercial free browsers despite being around for much longer. Could this possibly be because Opera is shit?

I should try Opera again to see if its improved these days, but last time it lasted less than five minutes - not managing to go through a proxy at more than a snail like pace. Every other browser worked fine.

I find that to be a great question.

Myself I use Firebadger 3.5 with ABP and am very pleased with it. I can honestly say that although I have IE8.0 installed (either with Vista SP2 or Microsoft Update?), I have never used it for web browsing ~save to d/l said Firebadger Release. Then subsequently forgetting about it's existence.

On other "Platforms" (e.g. Linux and Hackentosh), I always use Firebadger on those "Systems" as well.

So I guess as a luser I do tend to stick with those old habits.

I think Opera need to STFU!

As Pedro points out, how exactly do you install your favorite browser without having the first browser? You're not going to find the browsers in shops on CDs, and it takes above average skills to be able to save the appropriate files on a CD from a friend (with a browser) to be able to do install on the browser-less machine. How does this help anyone? Has anyone thought through this whole thing?

You could wake up and IE8 might be there? Thats his problem, what sane person, 4 seconds after windows is installed, isn't installing their favourite browser anyway? So on the offchance MS decide to incur the EU's raith and another multi billion dollar lawsuit and enable IE8, are they saying, given the choice of both Opera(assuming it was installed straight off) and IE8 becoming available later, most would chose IE8? If not, then whats the problem.

Fact is any sane person will install IE8 anyway because some websites still don't work in certain browsers. I use Firefox, but the odd website just looks like crap, or just doesn't like being on FF so I fire up IE for it. This is the other problem the majority of people will probably go ahead and install IE8 aswell as firefox 4 seconds after Windows 7 is installed.

ANyway what does he want MS to do, make IE8 incompatible with Windows 7 for europe, make it impossible to be installed, in which case hows that fair to MS.

THe simple fact is despite all windows versions coming with IE installed anyway, and most people growing up and getting to grips with computers using IE8, firefox is doing exceptionally well, almost everyone that uses it bought a computer with IE originally on it. SO the answer is, if your product is good enough people will use it, very few use Opera, I'd be focusing on making it better, than complaining that other people are doing far better.

HAHA... HAHA... HAHA... HAHA

Stupid Opera throwing toys out of their prams again...

Now their efforts to get their browser on MS have utterly failed.. You have failed! If anything they have crated some free advertising for Win 7....

HAHA...HAHA

Good bye Opera ....sweet dreams

Why are the makers of Opera complaining to the EU? As far as I know, Opera is Norwegian, not even in the EU.

How else would you download firefox after you have installed windows?

IE6 and 7 distorted web standards and have resulted in a "corrupted" web format that will be stuck with us for the next few years as IE6/7 slowly get booted out.

Any code on the web should render in all browsers fine. I'm tired of my bank not "supporting" Firefox. I like the convienence of online banking but hate using IE for it with how exposed IE is.

I'd much prefer to use Firefox and Noscript to bank.

Personally I feel that Microsoft have made enough sacrifices with these antitrust laws and feel that Apple don’t seem to have restrictions on their Safari browser, so why should Microsoft.

http://www.pupuweb.com/blog/opera-software-complaints-windows-7/

QQ Opera your browser sux...

Firefox and IE 8 beat it so now your all sour

As for corporations not supporting firefox... get over it IE has a bunch of group policies that admins use to enforce stuff... so deal with it

With the proliferation of broadband, it could be argued with great gusto, that any argument regarding user choice is at an end. The age of caring if Microsoft includes IE in Windows is over. If anything, we might be more obliged to be annoyed that we cannot uninstall it too soon. I propose that the up take of Firefox and other new browsers are proportional to the users’ ease of quickly downloading large files, which prevented Netscape in the mid nineties. That is when reinstalling IE was an advantage.

The makers of Opera need to roll over and die or change their business model. I refuse to pay for a browser unless it is included (and hidden) in the cost of some device. There browser does not keep pace with the other to the extent that I feel comfortable. They would greatly benefit from making the browser free and focusing on maybe paid plug-ins and develop a plat form like everyone else. A browser being a source of revenue is no longer a good idea. They must change their tactics. I’m bored with the complaining when Firefox has come so far (yawn…) I’m sorry, but I just don’t have any empathy or even pity for them at this point.

This has all been done just to give those lazy fucks in the EU parliment something to do.. I mean, who removes the tool the allows you to go online in the first place? Only someone who is in the pay of the opposition because Mr and Mrs average in the street couldn't give two figs what they use to get online...Unreal and I mean fucking unreal....

Dude... EU parliament rules... they get billions from dumbasses like MS and Intel.

If I was MS and some little prat came to tell me they want me to play with their toys and not my own..I'd tell I'm to piss off. Then he brings his big bro (EU) and i get a smack round the chops ....so the only thing to do...take my toys and fuk off home leaving the prat to fiddle with himself all alone.

Well done MS... fuking well done. Legends

Has anyone wondered what Opera/MS/insert browser maker would say about Chrome OS? if M$ is so evil for bundling a browser with the os, what is the Goog doing if not the same thing? Based on reports here and everywhere else Chrome OS will basically be the browser as the OS. I realize that Chrome OS isnt on most of the computers out there, but every computer evangelical is preaching that it will be, so who will start the anti trust proceedings then?

Well, the point of contention is that Microsoft basically has a monopoly on the OS market, which gives them leverage to push their web browser as well. So Linux, MacOS, Chrome OS (when it appears) etc. aren't subject to the same restrictions because they don't have the OS market share that Windows does.

Having said that, the idea of an OS coming without a web browser in this day and age seems ridiculous. As many people have pointed out, the IE that comes bundled with Windows is perfectly adequate for downloading the browser you actually want to use.

What a bunch of crapola. How about the E U snobs making their own OS. If I were MS I would seriously consider not serving that market. The EU makes more money on antitrust fines against American companies that actually make something than they do for EU companies that complain.
This is really getting old!

Dan from sunny CA.... is that a hint of envy I smell?
EU is taking yanks to the cleaners and they can't anything but bend over and take it grinning.. you just wish US gov thought of it 1st ....

HAHAHAHAHA!

My feeling is this:

If you have that huge market share then you've done something right and you deserve to have your browser be out there with every OS as long as you can DL something different if you want. What Opera seems to want is for MS to package Opera as the Windows Browser or with other choices included in Windows as a bundle of some sort. Both are ludicrous and show that Opera is not in touch with reality and the fact that the EU has been listening to this sort of garbage is even more ludicrous. Besides, if it were Windows new browser, people would just use it to DL Firefox or IE8. Someone should explain to Opera that in order for people to want to use your product it has to be able to compete which it isn't doing effectively.

Windows 7 is M$ design therefore it is theres and they can do what they like with it.You don't have to but windows on your computer but its the best and it works Opera can shut there mouth and the E.U can as well what did they do fine M$ billions of dollars and for what... you wouldn`t tellVolkswagon they have to use Kia interior would you. SAME THING!!!!

if the morons who think they need ie to download another browser had ever tried linux they would know about a little thing called a software repository. ms could have complied with the ruling by creating something similar but they decided to act like a bunch of buthurt kids and just removed ie trying to make the eu look like the bad guys. looks like it fooled the morons who think ms can do whatever the hell they want with theyr products no matter how badly it hurts the industry or what laws it breaks

I've said it before and I'll say it again: who gives a flying F*** about a browser market share?!! It's a B-R-O-W-S-E-R! Browsers make ZERO money. Browsers are free.

Why the hell is this such an issue??

In a few years, perhapse MS can sue and ask that a copy of Windows be included with each copy of Opera.

I use Opera, IE7 and Firefox. Each has it's benefits. I use Opera for 90% of all my browsing and it is easily the best performing and feature rich/customisable browser out there. On the downside, Opera is more suited to Geeks as updates have to be handled with great care otherwise you lose all your settings, bookmarks and passwords etc. IE and Firefox do this part much better and I believe this is the main reason for Opera's lack of popularity with unskilled (most) users. Firefox installs it's own updates the best. Usually it is necessary to use IE for sites designed with no regard for cross-browser standards as many of these businesses are incompetent and only develop and test their websites for use with IE.

When I have installed and configured Opera properly for a user, they love it and never want to use anything else. The fact that this is a technical process beyond most users is definitely why Opera lags in browser mindshare. Oh did I also mention that Microsoft always modofies behaviour of their Windows Live/Hotmail service to ensure it doesn't function properly with Opera ! Opera always counters this with a fix of their own... You have to laugh at this silly game. I own shares in Microsoft but I have to admit they are a bunch of assholes when it comes to disrupting their competitors.

There are so many US people here. They're not going to be impartial.
So. Lets split this browser problem in easily understandable points.

FIRST POINT.
What counts is the INSTALLED user base. If windows has 90% market share thats 90% of the market potentially for IE (all versions) BY DEFAULT. If you want to browse the web and you use windows you'll ALWAYS use IE *first*.

SECOND POINT.
By using IE first you might like it or be enough for you and never look other way EVEN IF there are better browsers around. THAT's a HUGE competitive advantage IE always enjoys.

THIRD POINT.
If you finally got fed up with IE (which is unlikely if you're not a power user and you only do simple things) you have to first KNOW about another browser, then GO to its page, DOWNLOAD it and INSTALL it (the latter not being always possible).

FOURTH POINT.
That "how am I going to download a browser if I can't browse the web" argument is FUCKING RETARDED. Its sooo easy to implement a download tool so when you click the "internet" icon the first time a windows pops up with a few choices; click one, it downloads and installs automagicaly, end of story.

FIFTH POINT.
The OS being without browser means that you'll have to INSTALL it completely again. That's not the case with IE because its ALWAYS THERE and its always needed when you use windows update (because who uses mbsa). Uninstalling the browser completely its quite difficult and quite problematic afterwards.

SIXTH POINT.
US people. STOP whining about other countries' antitrust decisions. Its their market, their laws and MS its MAKING MONEY there, yesterday I went to a mediamarkt and saw that vista home basic retails for 199€, that's almost 300$, FOR HOME BASIC.. a FUCKING RIPOFF.
If MS wants to leave the EU completely, FINE, but leave the EUROS behind.
So. STFU.

Oh, almost forgot.
SEVENTH POINT.
Stop calling HATERS people that don't share your point of view.
Except me.
Don't mind me. I'm a hater.

IHY

You people STILL buy the crap that IE is part of the OS. Oh my god I don't believe, the human race stopped evolving indeed.

Opera should be praised for trying to make a ****FREE**** lightweight browser that strictly adhere to official standards. This is why most sites are rendered wrong. Most sites don't have the balls to go for open solutions and break free of Microsoft/Adobe/Sun proprietary bloat that make all those stupid useless shiny coloful things jumping in your face while malware is downloading in the background.

What M$ did to Netscape is what US did to the middle east. FUCKING MONEY HUNGRY GRINGOS.

Now read with me:

IE IS NOT PART OF THE OS

IE IS NOT PART OF THE OS

IE IS NOT PART OF THE OS

IE IS NOT PART OF THE OS

IE IS NOT PART OF THE OS

@ mycelo
@ Killy

You guys have seriously lost the plot.

1) IE *should* be considered part of the OS.
Becasue *every* consumer OS *should* ship with a browser. It's an integral feature. The OS is *incomplete* without it. Nobody is saying "Windows will break without IE". We're saying "Windows is incomplete without IE". Got it? Good!

2) Killy - your points 1, 2, and 3 are negated by the fact that MS isn't planning to ship IE in Win7. That being the case, Opera has no leg to stand on. Got it? Good!

3) Killy - your point #6 is actually two points. Both of them, utterly irrelevant. First -- we (or even you) can whine about EU's antitrust laws all we (or you) want. Are you in the habit of accepting everything the way it is, and never having an opinion of your own? Or do you never express your opinions?? Second -- you found the most ridiculous price for Vista Home Basic and posted it. The truth is closer to $200 (much less for an OEM disk). Complain about mediamarket ripping you off, not MS. Also note the fact that nobody is forcing you to buy that disk. Use whatever the hell you want. Free market and all that.

Your 4th point is worse than awful. How many download utils will ship with the OS? Who will maintain the UDDIs that point to the latest versions of everyone's browsers? Who decides the bar for 'eligibility' for your download tool to be shipped inbox with the OS?? What if your company/org that manufactures this browser goes belly-up, do you end up with a download utility that points to nowhere? All this cost and complexity getting added on because Neelie freaking Kroes thinks her vision of a competitive market is the One True version, and because the EU's nonsensical implementation of antitrust laws leaves her as the judge, jury, and executioner with absolutely no-one having oversight on her. I mean, if you want to appeal one of her rulings, the appeal gets *heard by her*. WTF??

ATI & Nvidia should sue MS for bundling 'Standard VGA Driver' and not bundling their drivers!

This is freakin retarded. Including free software w/ the OS should not be 'anti-trust' and anyone who thinks it is.. well they're retarded too. You always have the option to install wtf ever you want.

If you're too stupid to be able to do that, you don't want the version w/o IE anyway cause you're just gonna be screwed.

@ King: you took the words right out of my mouth in regards to the cerebral champions ahead of you, so I won't reiterate too much in that regard.

You can't say that IE isn't an integral part of the OS and then whine about how much of a pain it is to install a new browser without it. Face it, Microsoft did exactly what they were told, and now the EU has to deal with how stupid of an idea it was.

Browsers are a commodity now, simply a means to an end. Try this example on for size: When you buy a new car (OS), you don't complain about what kind of petrol (browser) it has in it. If you want a different kind, you just use what you got in the tank to get to a different petrol station. No big deal. But now, in order to be 'fair' to all the petrol stations, you have to push your car to a petrol station before you can even drive it anywhere. Fair, sure, but a giant pain in the arse.

I want to know what Opera hoped to gain from the lawsuit. Maybe they didn't think that far ahead: they were just too excited pushing Microsoft around to make a plan. Did they really think the EC could force Microsoft to include Opera on the install disk? Were they that insane? Forcing a company to include a competitor's product in their product... that's a new one.

Besides, IE is hemorrhaging market share like it's going out of style: that's the sign of a domineering monopoly if I ever saw one, right?

And doesn't anybody remember the debacle with Win XP-N, and the fact that no one wanted it? What made the EC think that the same thing will work this time when it failed so miserably before?

As much as I agree that MS shouldn't force IE down everyone's throats, the fact of the matter is, how would you download Firefox or Opera without a browser? Typical, non-techie people don't even know or care which browser they're using. As long as it's fast and displays pages correctly, they just don't give a crap.

If and when MS stops shipping Windows with IE, I could just imagine non-techies complaining that their Windows PCs can't surf the internet because it no longer comes with IE. Do they have a CD lying around somewhere with the Firefox or Opera installer? I strongly doubt it. It's gonna be freakin' shitty for these guys as they fumble with their PCs figuring out how to browse the internet.

Now I like Opera and use it on my laptop due to its simplicity, ease of use, and to distinguish myself when I'm in Starbucks, but I use Firefox for my desktop because I visit sites for work that don't work well with Opera. This is its main disadvantage, not to mention its sluggish performance with Facebook (poor AJAX support?). I know Opera adheres to W3C standards very well, but fact is, as in anything with life, you can't always walk in a straight line. You gotta know how to loop the loop and dance the Samba sometimes. And that, my friends, is where Opera falls short.

Come on, Hakon, concentrate on making Opera a better browser and do some advertising. Then maybe you can get more market share.

OMG they'll be asking Microsoft to make their browser next. I still think it's appalling what the EU and other countries have done with Microsoft. They make an OS that people want and they get fined for including things people want!

What next, take Ford to court for not including Opera in their dashboards ?

Doesn't Safari come bundled with Mac OS? Why are they allowed to do it and Microsoft are not allowed to include their own browser?

I think the thrust of Opera's position is that Microsoft removed IE8 but maintained an anti-competetive advantage. I'm inclined to agree with this, though I don't pretend to know what the best solution is.

What I do know is that 90% of the above commenters are probably an embarassment to their parents. Or should be. Way to kill the INQ, gang.

The main point with IE was and is that if it is already present, many users will simply use it and not even consider installing and using another browser. Not having IE on a system by default means people will have to look for a browser anyway and will probably rather go and take a look at what else there is. That's at least a big move in the right direction. Apart from that: Does a firefox user care whether Windows still uses the IE renderer to display stuff?

I wonder what browser the Chrome OS will come with ?

most the comments remind me of the how many more kids nowdays are punks/brats with little to no respect to elders.

why is nobody mentioning back when Windows95 was not tied to the browser ? Are most of you commenters new pc users that never used win95 ? I remeber installing 95 and having the choice to install Netscape and never install IE explorer. I remember webpages when microsoft had to spend advertising dollars to tying and get everyone to use IE rather than Netscape. Then to bury Netscape microsoft coded IE into the OS because it feared the competition and wanted no competition.
the OS was smaller cleaner and better without IE coded into it IMO.

But how better for microsoft to spy on your every move on your pc than to code IE into the OS...so when the OS reports back to microsoft with all your personal data, (encrypted so you dont know to catch it)collected from your PC

what if every corporation you bought something from required you to hand over all your personal data to get service from them ? would you ? ...you let microsoft do that to you may as well let every corporation. Think i making this up ? ,READ THIS http://news.softpedia.com/news/Forget-about-the-WGA-20-Windows-Vista-Features-and-Services-Harvest-User-Data-for-Microsoft-58752.shtml

Opera is digging its own grave, let them proceed it's amusing.
I wonder what they shall do about Google, with Google OS and Chrome being built in as the default and only available browser?
Then what does OS X come with? :D

"why is nobody mentioning back when Windows95 was not tied to the browser ?"

Actually it had Internet Explorer 3

whining or not, EU is the fat lady, and she hasn't sung yet:
http://www.v3.co.uk/v3/news/2245682/microsoft-faces-eu-antitrust

i guess there is some serious arm wrestling going on now :)
like: quit playing silly games or yet get sued till you bleed

you dance around and missed my point . IT WAS NOT PART OF THE OPERATING SYSTEM. IE3 was NOT Part of the OS as it is now. In fact I never installed IE3 on my Win95 and used only Netscape.

Microsoft forced IE into being part of the OS later ,purposely to wipe out competition.

Just want to point out to people that jump on Opera before knowing their facts, that their saint like Mozilla and Google are also part of the compliant, all parties have cold dirty cash to gain from beating Microsoft on the web.

If MS was beaten years ago, we wouldn't have to worry about which browser to use, just like all telephones can call anywhere, regardless of networks.

Easiest way to explain to the non-technical non-programmers is this.....Eggs have two parts

1.)Egg whites
2.)Egg yokes

Now you can seperate the white from the yoke and throw away the part you dont like to eat.UNLESS somebody SCRAMBLES the eggs ! You can no longer seperate the whites from the yokes in scrambled eggs.

This is what microsoft did lately to the OS they made it into SCRAMBLED EGGS,(scrambling IE into the OS code) when it did not used to be that way. UNDERSTAND BETTER ?

The EU is the same place where the kind ppl in Bruzelles decided that only straight ( as in a line ) cucumbers were to be sold, and curled or otherwise different shapes were looked at as 'not genuine cucumber' and actually ordered the stop of selling non-straight cucumber. I kid you not. The EU is being nice with M$ right now. When they get pissed and the political climate is right a ban on selling non-straight M$ windows cucumbers can very well and very real be placed.

And you should be able see just how fast m$ will comply. A nice list of all browsers avaliable on the market quite possibly with some beta builds to add to the surplus of browsers.

Some goed with Office.

m$ is tiny little grasshopper when you are talking about behemoth EU.

The EU is playing nice now, the suits of m$ just not realise it. When they do they'll sh!t their corporate suits, I kid you not. M$ is playing with fire.

I thought it was clear enough.
Well..
@king:

to 1)
I agree. Every OS should have a browser. And a player. And email client. And photo editing tool.
But, out of these, the browser is the most conducive to money.
If you control the browser, you can easily control the search provider (bing default on IE), the streaming content player, the rich media technology.
I din't say windows has to come without browser but with a choice. IE simply doesn't deserve automatic 90% market share. Even if you think otherwise.

to 2)
IF you RTFA, you'll realize that win7 WILL come with IE, but it will be deactivated. So, no hassle to find, to download or install; all the files will be there from the beginning. How isn't that anticompetitive? And you say Opera has no leg to stand on. I think your sole neuron is the one that should GOT IT.

Next. 3)
Fine. If you want to whine, then whine. But you should hopefully know that whining and arguing are different things. I argue. I have and I defend my opinions. You US people don't. You are just angered because some other country dares to touch your precious (and abusive) company, and you WHINE.
And. Vista home BASIC is 209€ (300$) on EMEA.MICROSOFTSTORE.COM/ES/ (even the download version). I don't know what THE TRUTH is, but YOUR truth is a LIE. Besides, do you know what a monopoly is? What a monopoly does to a free market? Hell, do you know SOMETHING?

Final.
As many download tools as needed.. WAIT!! there could be just ONE TOOL!! Microsoft would maintain the links and the vendors the load!! If manufacturer goes belly-up link doesn't work, choose another product and in no time link will be removed!! Is it THAT freaking difficult?? Synaptic does that and much more without a hitch. It MUST be Magic.
Who decides bar for 'elegibility' should shurely NOT be a monopoly enforcing a COMPETITOR. Do you understand?
The One Truth again. Look, try searching a little bit before spouting nonsense and ignorance. Then make your argument and argue with me all you like about EU antitrust laws and the different EU organizations.

@JonB

He took another thing out of your mouth. A drippy one. Champ.
Don't speak nonsense, EU doesn't have to deal against its ideas but against mischievous tricks monopolistic companies make.
Your car-OS example is a non-sequitur.
You don't know what opera wanted to gain? A fair playground for Gods sake! And opera 'pushing' Microsoft?? Bwahahaha don't make me laugh. It's like saying 'a fly pushing the everest around'.
IE is hemorrhaging market share because its a shameful piece of software, however, its INSTALLED USER BASE is 90%
I only *heard* about XP-N, I didn't actually saw it in any shelve. And no computer maker bundled it (guess why). Please..

KiLLy

i’m sure no one at MS knows where I ends and E begins. I’m also sure it’s impossible to separate the 2 now. That they didn’t lie when they said they couldn’t get it out. Not for lack of (well at least not totally) of will but in great part because the code is now in a state where it’s completely beyond any human competence to visualize it’s state of integration.

Already with the source code for the shuttle it was admitted that the code was beyond human comprehension and i remember it to be a couple of million lines at the time.

Most blocks of code are generated by codegenerators which in turn are quality controlled by computerized processes. They are then assembled into the codebase via an automated proces that collates the code.

Which is then computer tested.

No way in hell anyone is going to comprehend that, but of course admitting to the world that MS has no idea how it’s code works is not what i would advise them to do.

So better to brave the onslaught of the EU, try to make the best of it, hide IE’s components and hope for the best.

@peter vd berg

I don't exactly know the current state of the software either, but it was their strategy to bundle it with the OS when they realized the huge potential of the internet, so they could kill netscape. Therefore I think it's their duty now to unbundle it. No matter how hard it can be.

It's simply not fair, it has always been so unfair with the market and the competition to have IE bundled with Windows, and WE (the users) were the harmed ones. The 98% market share that IE enjoyed brought nothing to the table but low quality software like IE5-6.

Look at this:
http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/07/microsoft-caves-to-eu-pressure-will-offer-browser-ballot.ars

This line is priceless:
"The EU didn't find that offer compelling. Not only did the idea sound a bit like the failed media player solution, but Microsoft's antitrust legal history in the US indicates that it has been willing to exert significant pressure on OEMs in the past. In fact, just last month, the EU sent a series of questions to OEMs, asking if they had come under pressure originating in Redmond regarding browser bundling."

"Apart from that: Does a firefox user care whether Windows still uses the IE renderer to display stuff?"

Indeed I am bothered by this if the IE code is buggy and automatically installs viruses and spyware for me just by looking at an USB drive.
The IE renderer has one of the worst reputations for security and stability - I don't want this stuff infesting my OS core, I'd rather live without the "beautiful, active elements".

Windows 7 Home Premium E costs £80.00 ($130). The normal version is 3 for $140. So the E edition is 3 times more expensive than the normal version. Why? It is the consumer who suffers because EU wants to steal money from American companies.