Microsoft wants to hire the naive

he know that older programmer always claim that they had enough experience with better productive codes but it's no always true despite they want higher salary than averages.

Most students I know are totally "untainted by any knowledge"!

My personal fave is opening a command prompt, doing something useful (like rename with wildcards), and then closing it.

The usual reaction is "Wow, what was that?!"

I 2nd Steve: "Most students I know are totally "untainted by any knowledge"!"

But they have more time than money, so can be used cheaply for wasting time trying things which are likely impossible, in the same sense as the proverbial infinite number of monkeys with typewriters given infinite amount of time, will eventually produce the works of Shakespeare.

Why didn't this occur to the US Government when they were trying to make the atomic bomb?

Everything's possible at zombo.com

A "naive hire" at Microsoft is anyone who thinks that being invited to "take a chair" by Steve Ballmer is a prelude to a quiet and restful session of innovative problem solving.

...So they spend three decades working it out, while all the while shipping their semi-functional crap on the world, until they've worked and reworked their product to the point where it looks like a really bad version of what already existed.

Hire a teenager while they still know everything.

Sounds like your talking about Linux.

Harnessing cheap young people before they have kids or find something (a life) that takes up all their spare time and hoping some of them are good, rather than older, more experienced and much more expensive people.

Then they grow up a bit and realise that if they're any good they can earn much more money, or find something better to do than computers.

Vasek, next time you Euro-peons need rescuing from yourselves, please leave a message after the beep. And don't expect us to return your call.

The ONLY reason we (U.S.A.) developed the atomic bomb was that the British and we were convinced the Nazis were developing it, and if THEY had developed it first..... And yes, the signs WERE there that there was a Nazi atomic bomb program, but yes, it turned out it didn't get far, but we didn't know that during the war. We only knew there were signs they were developing one.

And the Bolsheviks wouldn't have had one either, if it hadn't been for a naive, misguided BRITISH scientist seconded to the Manhattan project. He couldn't wait to tell dear old Uncle Joe all about our new wonder weapon.

The British have always been great at working at cross-purposes to themselves.

Of course it has nothing to do with economics. That student work for considerably less pay is just convenient.

I still fondly recall Ol' Slick Willy Gates ranting about how software guys are overpaid, taking WAY too much of HIS money.

HB

Much as your other readers like to criticise and be cynical, Ozzie and Co at MS are entirely correct.

Companies hire graduates because they can be more easily trained and they bring a new point of view (or even remind people of an older one) to a team.

Older employees, although experienced, also tend to be closed minded - particularly when it comes to new technologies.

At our company, we have a very active graduate community, and call on them regularly to contribute in workshops - they tend not to have been around long enough to have formed a view and hence can add extremely valuable input.

Anyone who says otherwise has obviously never had a job - because they have never been a naive young employee of a company.

If we didn't have graduates and students, we wouldn't have any future!

a good way to reinvent the wheel again and again and again.

Out with the old (read that high pay and high experience) and in with the new (read that low pay and without experience).

I'm a recently retired "baby boomer", and since my departure with 32+ years of experience (I was one of five who built the division from scratch) my old position has been filled three times. It seems the pay is too low, the job site is too far from town, and the nightlife in the closest "big" city is non existent. Oh well frellin' well.

The US Air Force has a saying when an individual leaves one duty station for another: FIGMO. "F**k 'em, I Got My Orders".

And we wonder why the large corporations are in sure dire straits.

... on the outside and Stepford on the inside.

They say this because they are trying to compete with google but it is baloney. Google is for real (until they fossilise too) but MS are faking it under advice from media (not even management~) consultants I bet.

Though I suspect its true the leadership of MS would prefer not to have people around who are old enough to recognise and challenge their incompetance. They are the ones who stifle innovation, no good blaming age, its their own mentality they have to sort out. About as much insight as a dead slug in a bird bath.

This is why they and we so badly need a real competitor for Windows, I keep saying this, I must sound like a broken record, but its true.

No, Kaos909, you got it all wrong: Linux has only been in distro for about 16 years, not thirty!

You morons keep spewing the same crap over and over again, so I'll keep spewing the same truth over and over again.

Compared to anything Apple or anything Microsoft(never tried Solaris) Linux is better. Period, end of story. If you are non-gamer that doesn't need any super-specialized programs(professional video or picture editing for instance, and I'm just trying to be humble by leaving that out, since the people that say Windows is best for that might not be experts) than Linux is better 100% of the time. Command-line isn't hard, it's just different, you just need to RTFM.(Read The Freakin' Manual)

The better OS isn't Windows 7, it's Linux, in my case, Ubuntu. If you don't like to tinker, Ubuntu is Teh Awesome.

Besides, it's a fact that running Windows OSes as a properly set up virtual machine runs better and faster than pure Windows. I'm know, because I tried it on my dual-core 2GHz Turion laptop.

Bigger, better, faster is what they will claim about Windows 7, but bigger, better, faster, cheaper(as in free) is what is true about Linux.

Actually, what Ozzie really needs is not Naivety for Impossibility but Experienced Travellers and Practitioners in it.

Putting the Laden Cart before Young Mules only results in Stalled Programming and Dead Donkeys. What Microsoft Really Really Want and Need, is SureFire Virtual Control of Reality and then is the Impossible something which they can Offer Humanity rather than something they look for in Youth. The Program then becomes an much Greater Asset Generating Wealth rather than Using it.

And Ray Ozzie's remarks tell everyone that Microsoft development has Stalled and is non existent in Cloud.

And if you think the following short extract is very much the same as that which Ray is really looking for ....."And the only Barrier to Exercising Control and Power in such Domains as Provide GODlike* Creative Powers on Earth, is One’s Own Transparently Shared and Freely Available Intelligence, although more accurately, the Barrier would be One’s Lack of IT.

Who exercises such Controls for Uncle Sam? Who Leads in CyberSpace with ITs Controls of Computers and Communications? Or is it much Easier to
Buy the Facility in for a Fistful of Dollars, which would then Immediately Render Extraordinarily the Faculty for Practically Nothing, making it a Real Bargain/Universal Steal." ...... then it would identify where he needs to be looking to Splash the Fast Cash.

Another triumph of the American education system...

USA was quite happy not to be involved in the war, and just sell the Brits the equipment they needed (I think we finished paying for it in the late early 90s, so thanks so much "friend")... They only became directly involved when Japan and Germany sank American ships.

And as for the "British spy"... Why don't you name him... Could it be that a name like "Klaus Emil Fuchs" might hint he wasn't really British!

What suits mean when they say they love new hires is they want people they can abuse because they don't know any better yet. You do the work and they keep the profits. By the time you figure out the scam you'll be trapped with a house payment, a car payment and a kid on the way. Then you'll be afraid to leave but after a while they'll lay you off and replace you with new hires.

If you have ideas & motivation then you should start your own company.

More silly and foolish concepts from on high at M$.

I guess they'll never learn that lesson. I.E. They still haven't a clue about their true objectives are, nor what they lack in knowledge.

Unlike newbies and most M$ programmers, successful experienced consultants, engineers, and programmers don't make silly assumptions nor gloss over any details.

Widely deployed products have little room for the trial and error programming techniques used by newbies.

It should be no surprise why windows, (and related products), are so poorly documented, riddled with logic flaws, redundancies, and security holes.

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Note to M$, Successful people, (of the caliber M$ really needs) don't rip up their lives to relocate to Redmond for a few measly $$$. It would take one many years, (maybe never), to make up for losses incurred. Clue to M$, you need to distribute your development efforts instead of trying to build company towns.

Students... they're cheap, and easy to brain wash into thinking that they actually mean something in a company the size of Microsoft.