- Monday, 11 January 2010
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The visionary lies to himself, the liar only to others - Nietzche
Update: AMD’s graphics card selector
AMD HAS RESPONDED to our review of its Scout graphics card selector, an online expert system which we found, well, less than expert.
But far from popping a horse's head between the Inquirer's virtual bed sheets, AMD called to say thanks for stress-testing the site.
"We take feedback seriously and will be making some changes to the expert system," said Richard Baker, one of AMD's marketing chiefs.
The random pricing issue Inq encountered was, Baker said, a problem the expert had in knowing whether it was dealing with prices inclusive or exclusive of VAT, which will now be debugged.
The site is aimed at customers who are unsure of what card to buy, for example, if they were upgrading an old desktop PC, not graphics experts, Baker explained.
As for the choice of graphics card Scout recommended on our visit, "it's a subjective opinion, as the comments from your visitors prove," said Baker.
For those who didn't catch the original walk-through, here it is:
We’ve been fiddling about with AMD’s graphics card selector ‘tool’ – purportedly created to make life easier for punters confused as to which GPU to pick for their graphical needs. Unfortunately, we discovered AMD’s logic to be sadly lacking.
Perplexed punters who wind up on ATI's Graphics Scout are given a whole host of options to choose from in order to help them pinpoint exactly what is important to them in terms of graphics capability and which card would best suit their needs. All well and good, but let’s try it out:
Clicking on “Start” we chose the “Games” tab and selected Online Gaming. We then went to the “Video” tab and selected “HD Content and Blu-Ray Films.” Calculating our ideal graphics card, AMD’s graphics scout told us we’d better buy a 4670. Fine.
We pressed “X” and closed the window. Leaving our first two choices in the basket, we decided to add in both icons from the “Photos” tab – “watch and organize photos” and “edit photos.” Calculating again, Scout told us we would still need a 4670. fine, still no problem.
But then we decided to add all four icons from the “Office” tab to our basket – along with our previous choices – only to discover, to our immense confusion, that upon calculation, Scout decided we only needed a 4550 card. Hmmm.
Things got stranger. We cleared all the icons from our basket and went to the “Video” tab. Choosing only “DVD”, we calculated and were told we’d need a 4550. We cleared the “DVD” icon from the basket and, instead, replaced it with just the “Watch Videos Online” icon. Guess what? Apparently Scout reckons we only need a 4350 for that! So, if you take AMD’s advice, then buying a 4350 for watching video online means that you’d need to upgrade in order to watch a DVD. Logic anyone?
Adding insult to injury, it would appear the charming folks at Overclockers UK have also figured out how to manipulate spaced-out-Scout to their needs. Clearing our basket we chose DX10+ from the “Games” tab, calculated our ideal dream card, and were told we’d need a 4890. Checking out the list of E-tailers on the right, we found Overclockers UK - a “‘Trusted AMD partner” - flogging the card for just £99.
We clicked through, only to find that the product we’d selected was actually £114 including VAT. “Oh well,” we thought, “what’s another £15 anyway?” On closer inspection, however, we noticed that the product wasn’t even a 4890 at all, but an inferior 4870. Prospective punters who didn’t notice the single digit change from a ‘7’ to a ‘9’ could easily have purchased a card (through AMD’s recommendation engine) which didn’t fit the criteria they’d asked for. Way to screw your customers, DAAMIT.
Seeing such badly written code, we’ve come to understand why AMD seems to have so much trouble with more complex stuff like drivers. We also wonder whether AMD can offer us any assurances that the guys writing their drivers are more talented than the people doling out customer advice. We sure hope so.
Of course, we also hope that after discovering these horrendous discrepancies, AMD will do the honourable thing and fix its graphics scout to avoid scamming its customers.
But in the meanwhile, if you need advice, you’re better off looking elsewhere than AMD’s ‘helpful’ site. µ
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Wow - an ATI hateboy on the Inq for a change? Trying to blame ATI for a mistake that is rather the vendor's fault? Way to screw your readers, Inq.
at least they know how to create a nice looking GUI.
not once I heard people saying "ATI's driver is a lot comfortable than NVIDIA's"
these must have chosen a pretty retail box to go with their hardware as well :D
er, how exactly does this screw INQ readers? It's just pointing out a flaw that people should be aware of. or would you rather consumers weren't made aware of things like this? your logic seems a bit off.
I refuse to beleive it!
Perhaps if they didnt employ sub-minimum wage fanbois they may provide a better service?
This has been busted for ages... A couple of weeks ago I thought I'd have a play and see what it suggested I need in my PC at work. Bits of we browsing, office applications and the occasional image editing.
ATI confidently said I needed at least a 4890...
Strangley - the chaps in IT refused to upgrade my machine.
So the product selector which ATI have obviously had created for them by a third party has a few outdated links in. Article worthy?
Also, how can you compare third-party developed flash to ATI's driver support?
I think this article is about as retarded as I have ever seen.
There are too many amd websites and their peripherals that scattered around the internet and since then had not been updated.
Ever since the owner decided he didnt like paying tax, and buggered off to Switzerland, OCUK has gone downhill.
I'd be very surprised if they're still in business in 12 months.
www.the-sps.org
Try use the card comparison feature. Put in say the 4670 on the left and then compare with the other cards. Strangely when you choose the 4890 the max power usage disappears :)
They tried a similar stunt with my wages
I then got sacked for complaining so decided to join http://www.theselfpreservationsociety.org
P.S. I've had Spies daughter
...we've *all* had her.
Unlike driver development that requires talented and knowledgeable developers which AMD of course has :), this kind of utilities are usually outsourced to 3-rd party companies which are good in Flash but of a little knowledge of hardware. Obviously this is a problem of the app that did not go through the proper QA. Blaming that on driver developers is as silly as the results from the app. :)
Online video (I.e. Flash 10, Silverlight 2) doesn't support full hardware acceleration. Even SL3 doesn't fully support running on the GPU.
It's possible that the 4550 could give you better hardware acceleration and scaling for DVD playback (which is fully hardware supported) than a 4350.
It's obvious that its not been properly tested but there are some things that make sense yet this writer has just been a douche about.
This is the real Gibbo the above is an imposter.
I NOW WORK AT NOVATECH.CO.UK
I WILL DO YOU AN AWESOME DEAL!!!
BUY IT NOW!!!!
Hi there,
I am the real gibbo, and I'm now working for www.the-sps.org
BUY NOW.
http://www.the-sps.org/showthread.php?t=9253
This is the standard set when you employ immigrants, pay them minimum wage cash in hand and then become one yourself.
LOL OverclockersUK
http://www.theselfpreservationsociety.org
@confused: Because it sheds an undeservedly bad light on ATI. I am working with ATI products for years (as a coder, not just consumer), and I have to say that I prefer both ATI hardware and driver over NVidia's - not because I hate NVidia, but simply because their stuff gives me significantly less trouble and better graphical results. Should NVidia deliver more bang for the buck in the future, I may well shift to NVidia, but again: ATI is not as bad as the article suggests.
"I prefer both ATI hardware and driver over NVidia's because their stuff gives me significantly less trouble and better graphical results"
^ this is the weakest argument I've heard in years. do your homework.
"Should NVidia deliver more bang for the buck in the future, I may well shift to NVidia"
^ now this statement suits you better, shows your real face, cheap ass.
Can I just say take offence at the "Seedless spunk" remark.
OMG why didn't I post this anonymously !!!
As a proud and fully paid up member of the Kilroy-Silk-For-PM party, I will stand guard against all who slander my overclocking hardware provider or graphics engine :grrr:
Also, stuff like this happens all the time, a little blown out of proportion I think.
A section from the article states...
"Things got stranger. We cleared all the icons from our basket and went to the “Video” tab. Choosing only “DVD”, we calculated and were told we’d need a 4550. We cleared the “DVD” icon from the basket and, instead, replaced it with just the “Watch Videos Online” icon. Guess what? Apparently Scout reckons we only need a 4350 for that! So, if you take AMD’s advice, then buying a 4350 for watching video online means that you’d need to upgrade in order to watch a DVD. Logic anyone?"
AMD is making a valid assumption that online video being watched is of (much) lower quality than a DVD which means a lower video card like the 4350 would suffice.
I've never bought anything from Overclockers before, but someone sent me this link to their forum earlier.
For a technology forum this seems unusual.
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=17553710
Lol, do you not think some of the comments in this topic by my colleagues are unusual, especially Visage claiming that we've all had someone's daughter.
I'm sure you'll agree that we're just a bunch of retarded spastics, no offence meant to retarded spastics of course.
ps. I am NOT gay.
spastic site:http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/
You can replace 'spastic' with any narrow-minded, derogatory, UKIP initiated term and still end up with loads of hits
I've tried this on other technology sites and it is just not the same
Wny is that ?
I don't go on OcUK any more so there's no point asking me, well I do read it every day but i don't like it, honest I don't.
Me and my friendz have got our own site now and we joke about cool things like rape, paedophilia and racism, some of our members are actually in to those things too, crazy funny eh??
The fun we had over Maddie and Baby P was brill!
<3
The pricing looks good and the site is easy enough to use, but these posts are worrying.
If I buy from them, am I supporting something I'd rather not?
Can't The Inquirer get a definitive statement from the management at Overclockers about their racial/political views?
NOW it sounds like they are 'in tune' with the ocUK way of thinking
You've got a funny name! I bet you're one of theose muslim terroist bombers, from Bradford.
You should post on my site.
http://www.theselfpreservationsociety.org :visage:
@geezus: That's about the dumbest unfounded comment I have read in years. OpenGL, CUDA and Stream computing coding for years is quite a bit of homework. What do you have in comparison apart from a big mouth? Well, why do I waste time on a clueless fanboi here anyway?
Where's Charlie? And who's the retard who wrote this article?
The INQ obviously expected to to get a big derisive laugh out of lampooning AMD’s new graphics card selector website. From these reader comments however, it's clear that The INQ has badly misjudged their audience.
The overwhelming majority of the comments do not agree with The INQ accusing AMD of trying to “screw their customers,” and several believe that a couple of minor program glitches in the online sales tool is not even remotely newsworthy.
It’s got to be a bit of embarrassment for The INQ to be told by their readership that they are taking an unwarranted cheap shot at AMD with this “non-news” item. Has there been a recent editorial change or something?
when charlie was accusing nvidia for seamless and irrelevant BS, most of you readers were pretty much happy, praising that cunt. but now, when sharing some negative (but helpful) information about AMD's bad selling program, all of you upset maggots bash the INQ for it.
conclusion: the majority of the INQ readers are ATI fanboys.
the INQ should care less for your pathetic kind, and send you were they sent your redeemer CD.
stupid audience is not something the INQ should wish for.
@ karx11erx:
its not my job to educate you with coding comparisons. as I said - do your homework. the fact that you first say you had better experience coding with ATI hardware and drivers, but then said you would consider NV when they raise bang4buck ratio, just show us who's the real fanboy is. yea - its YOU. real coders wouldn't mind a few $ difference.
a real coder once said:
“When I have a problem on NVIDIA drivers, I assume that it is my fault. With anyone else’s drivers, I assume it is their fault”
- John Carmack
I think what has happened is that all these years of Pro ATI/Anti Nvidia articles combined with all those ludicrously biased Nvidia hate debacles by Charlie's undeniably sorry excuse for a journalist ass have driven away all but the AMD/ATI fanboys who come here to agree with each other like republicans who watch Fox News. Oh, and before I hear Nvidiot or some other iTerm tossed at me, I have a 4870 in both my PC's, I just hate fanboy attitudes and lopsided reporting.
With Charlie the psycho gone (and good riddance) it seems ATI fanboys no longer have someone to pander to them. awww. poor babies. Grow up you morons. This article pointed out a flaw, it's now being fixed because someone cared enough to write about it. that's good news. So stop being pissy just because someone at the INQ FINALLY had the balls to write a slightly non biased, non fawning AMD article for a change. Refreshing!
You are twisting what I said into something I never intended to express. I never weighed reliability in for price/performance or vice versa. My two statements have no direct relation. I simply tried to point out that I am not against NVidia in general. I just found that ATI is doing their job just as good (if not better as far as I am concerned).
It says enough about you that you are trying to twist these two things together when I didn't mean it that way to prove a point that in fact you do not have.
Given all the problems NVidia drivers caused in the past years (from driver cheating to instabilities), I have to say I do not care too much about John Carmacks opinion here although I greatly respect him as an extremely skilled and knowledgeable person.
I think you are a big mouthed smart ass who has no real clue of or true hands on experience with and insight in technical issues relevant here.
You need to quote John Carmack. I have at least my own experience. Go figure. And STFU while you do, please.
They forgot the most important thing when you plan to buy a graphics card... THE PRICE. This is a typical conversation between the customer and the seller:
"I have a 200$ budget. What can offer me?"
The price is ALL.
although charlies articles were often bias. they did have plenty of useful information. saved me from picking up a laptop with a potentially faulty chip.
virtually any journalist can be bias towards certain events, companies, country, religion, etc. at least charlie didn't hide it. one just needs to take it into consideration when reading the article.
this article causes me to question the authors ability to write accurate tech articles because of his criticism of the dvd playback recommendation. he must not have researched the 4350 and 4550, either that or he is possibly a fan of the green flavor.
i run both nvidia and ati. all the same to me. as long as it works for what i bought it to do.
sorry for the sloppy post. have my q1 ultra with me. great for media and browsing, but i gotta get a netbook to replace this pos. wtb keyboard....
It's a website that's alittle misleading people, let's not get carried away! Kinda like the INQ!?
You can still thank them folks over at AMD for bringing the Overall prices down for GPU's. Sheesh. Give me a break.
MaYBe they HiRed Vondrashek to WriTE the AMD ViDeO Card config ThiNgy-MaJobBeR?
I just say that I totally agree with the recommandations made by the Scout graphics card selector. As far as I know the 4550 has some anhence for DVD's so, it's better than the 4350 (because webvideo is not accelerated (yet) enough by the drivers/chips))
And if you use mainly Office tasks and sometimes Photoshop why should you need a 4890 that's neither efficent often enough needed.
Who would recommend a 4890 for an office pc (just dorks or salesperson making quick money)
...but I've had a change of heart, and am now focused solely on developing amazing content for these built-in Intel video chipsets. Frankly, I can't get enough of them! Cheap as chips and no nasty active cooling to worry about!
The Intel GPU selector bot indicates the best videocard for you is:
*BLEEP BLOOP*
- Whatever shipped in your Mum's $299 HPCompaq laptop. My goodness that Sam Walton delivers the deals! -
*BLEEP BLEEP*
I used to always buy ATI cards until they dropped Windows 2000. Now I buy only NVidia cards. Windows 2000 is the best OS, so why drop support for it? I don't have Active Activation or DRM, and I have UDF 2.5/2.6 Blu-ray support with Nero 8 Ultra. Why upgrade?!
OCLing and neo-colonialism with a pinch of racism go hand in hand on some forums. That because of lack of technical knowledge and buyer ism leaves a void and that void, in typical US fashion needs to be filled with another one.
That why I quit the [H] a loooong time ago. The UKOc forum seems to be more proof that the UK and US economies are connected, if not the former a colonizer of the latter.
Now I know; it must be an inferiority complex.