DX11 is AMD's weapon

ATI makes more practical and worthy GPU's

Same old question What came first the chicken or the egg. You will not see games use Direct x 11 for a couple years and the first cards that can do direct x 11 will be to slow to run them. I will wait for the second gen. Direct x 11 cards to come out.

Don't be ridiculous!!

AMD fully supports OpenCL, which is the _open_ and soon to be industry standard that will kill off yet another proprietry NVIDIA product(CUDA).

So the way I see it AMD is just as much playing in the GP-GPU market as NVIDIA.

Infact DX11 supports the compute shader, which also opens up the GP-GPU power of the GPU for games developers...

DX11 is very cool indeed, HW Tessellation, Compute Shaders, Display Lists etc...

i bet these new directx11 cards will be incredibly slow when running games in directx11 mode.i can see it now resolution 800x600 and no AA or AF and you still get only about 15 frames per seconds.

about all those DX X Games??
that I've heard so little about lately.

...Ok there's Flight Simulator X, but other then that???

Then again living in Germany, where Killerspiel strengst vorboten sind. Plus my internal apathy for such games. I can't really place the REALLY BIG Titles.

Oh yeah that's right DX X was for Fister ONLY!!!

So yeah the pundent could very well be correct this time, if only 'cause DX X never had wings...

Great stuff! But I will not buy it, because I am sick and tired of all those DRM-infested games that are being released lately.

Is it just me or does it feel empty in here reading articles only from Sylvie, Paul Hales, and Nick Farrell?

Is Charlie on vacation? Fired? Quit because of stupid nvidia fanbois? I must have missed the memo. I almost expected this to be covered by him.

Good go at the article Sylvie but it just doesn't compare with one done by Charlie D.

He has left the INQ and started his own news site:
http://www.semiaccurate.com

http://www.semiaccurate.com/forums/index.php

Just about every game made today is targeted for a console so as far as I'm concerned, the video card wars are over. My current GTX275 will be the last video card I buy (unless I get another for SLI). Bye bye money sucking PC, hello xbox 720.

Don't fool yourself. Amd is all about dx_11 while nvidia is all about gpgpu... You are right, Max Weber, I miss Charlie, too.

Cheers

You are correct, however in my case, bye bye MS all together. You don't want to support your so called Games For Windows platform (PC) Then I can't support you or your company.

Hey AMD/ATI, Nvidia, Intel you're next, without a gaming platform there is no need to upgrade.

I'll be spending my $$ on Mac and photography equipment instead of the next GPU or CPU...(anything non MS)

This is the issue with dx11, its mostly what dx10 was originally supposed to be. That means the big companies who all made dx10 games were programming for what was the original dx10(which is really dx10.1 which is mostly what dx11 is) YEARS ago. In all likelyhood Crysis in dx10 was originally being made for dx10.1 because throughout developement thats all they knew was coming. WIth Assasins creed, one of the few games to tell Nvidia where to shove it(at first) we saw a 10-20% boost by using the "original DX10" routines in the game before they were told(paid) not to use it anymore. The main point is, all major developers have been ready for dx10.1/dx11 for at least 2 years. The only reason for dx10 to run slower is it added the ability to use more particles with less overhead, but was missing all the major features of dx10.1 that increased speed. All together would have seen a pretty decent speed boost, dx10 as it was released was cripled though, it had the extra effects, but none of the speed ups, all thanks to Nvidia.

So to sum up, all the big game makers are practiced in dx10.1/dx11 already, all of them have been waiting for global hardware support and an API that uses them for 2 years, dx11 offers the very real performance boosts that were RIPPED OUT of dx10 at Nvidia's request. Not only will early hardware play dx11 games well, but they will run faster in DX11 than they will in DX9, and its really that simple. Also keep in mind that everything AMD has released since the 2900xt supports tesselation and dx10.1, that will mean that come dx11 and games that support it, tesselation and dx10.1 features(which all work on dx 11) will work on ALL ATi cards released in the past 2 years, while none of the features will work on Nvidia card.

What this could mean is, lets take a hypothetical Crysis 2 to come out at the end of the year with the ability to run in dx9 and dx11, on CURRENT Nvidia cards it should run about the same speed in either mode(it would obviously default to dx10) and offer no tangible IQ improvements. The same game on AMD hardware should show very real performance boosts on any AMD hardware from teh 2/3/4 series cards, assuming they use tesselation to boost IQ at no performance cost, all of those same cards should see a bump in IQ aswell as a bump in performance.

For me an Nvidia card that offers less bang for buck already, will only offer even less bang for buck on newer games.

I have been gaming on PC since Win 3.1/DOS 6 Days and every time they came out with hardware it would take a couple years before everybody would jump on the bandwagon. Then your hardware would be to slow. In order to keep current you have to buy a new video card every year. You may think i am wrong but i am going with my experience. For games now i do xbox360/PS3/Wii. PC gaming TANKS.

I think Charlie is wonderful, but I think that you, Sylvie, are a bit more wonderful than Charlie!

You're a good reporter, you have the smarts and knowledge, when needed you have the sarcasm, you have the Brit whit... and you have a beautiful smile, Sylvie, a beautiful smile.

opened his owned biased rant & flame childish newbie news blog. kicked out for good..

now all you ati fanboys can gather there and read that anti-ms/nv biased shit you love so much, out of jealousy.

good ridden.

Simon,

It is a rat race. Seriously, DX has gone from v9 v10 now and shortly v11 in less than 3 or 4 years - do you really believe the advances justify the version numbers?. MS has always done this by either releasing 'new' versions or by renaming all the functions in the SDK. Do you remember how OLE suddenly turned into ActiveX?. Or that just around the time CORBA started to gain traction outside the enterprise $100K+ systems... MS popped a zit called Network OLE upon the face of the market?

It is a marketing technique intended to keep the developers interested or at the very least somewhat frightened of falling behind.

Don't worry about it, guy. It is all bullsh*t. OpenGL 3 can do what DX v.whatever does, MS just wants to keep the punters looking at the emperor's new clothes, that's all.

So I can run it with DirectX 11 games on Windows XP right? Right? No? Don't care.

They need to worry about improving manufacturing to increase clock speeds. Period.

I am in possession as I type of a copy of OpenCL from Nvidia. I know that AMD will release, perhaps has released, an OpenCL as well. Good on them both.

AFAICT NV mapped OpenCL onto CUDA, I have to assume AMD does the same with CAL ass'y language. Nothing wrong with that. If I have to get closer to the metal, haha, though, I'd rather do it with CUDA variant C than CAL ass'y style language.

"DX11 is very cool indeed, HW Tessellation, Compute Shaders, Display Lists etc..."

Don't believe the hype.

Well, AMD wins on time being because nvidia doesnt have them yet. just wait till nvidia comes in.

dx11 isnt AMD's weapon forever, unlike nvidia - CUDA and Physx. They will eventually have dx11.

so history replay it self. but this time with videocards. like with processors before amd had more functions built into them and intel had the faster chips. back then majority of the poeple are dumb and only know how to read cpu clockspeeds. it's probably going to be the same with videocards they will only know how to read fps or something.

i expect next year when larabee come out nvidia have been swallowed by the green blop (amd). Intel know they will be loose the current litigation with nvidia, and they don't want to open their quickpath interconnect because it had infringed the hypertransport consortium patents. So, before the court decision, to force them to license the qpi to nvidia. Amd will swallow nvidia first before take any negotiation to intel for x86 cross license

"ATI lags behind NV in the GP-GPU battle, which is not insignificant in the slightest". Mmm, yes it is. All raise your hand who need GPU assisted video encoding? Anyone?

Woot ish GP-GPU shit? Coz if it ish cool, then I need it!!! Gimme cool thinksh. Alwaysh NVIDIA Ion *AWESOME* 9300 inshide cool *in luv* gimme them all I love the NVIDIA they do thinksh for the usersh!!

Hey Scorpion, seems like you're the childish one.

Oh and if you're going to throw out insults, you pathetic little weasel, then learn how to use the correct words in context.

It's riddance, you moron, not ridden.

Oh and I have a current ATI card. After having several nVidia cards fail, I doubt I will be going back to them. That doesn't make me a fanboy, you narrow minded simpleton.

Number of ATi cards that I have owned, that haven't failed is all of them, about six or so.

The number of nVidia cards I've owned that have failed, is 7. Every one I owned has failed.

So I suppose this website is now the cool place for the acne riddled nvidiot fanboys to hang out and wank yourselves senseless over more nVidia rebranding, PhysX and Cuda.

Good for you.

....for something exciting enough to make me want to replace my 7900GTX.

I remember a time when we got exciting new graphics features every 6 months plus a really usuful 4-5fps boost.

Havent seen that for years. GPUs are really really dull now. It proves the point when reviews spend more time talking about the heatsink and fan arrangement than the actual technical spec.

Charlie would have written a 15-page article full of fecycled rants. I'd much rather read a brief and to-the-point article. I .. um.. have work to do, after all. :)

Rumors has it that Nvidia's next gen chips will be MIMD based and will perform very will with GP-GPU applications. That probably is the most significant reason why Nvidia will do better with GP-GPU. But I'll wait and see how well optimized their MIMD approach will be. They will probably giving up some gaming performance but also have to wait and see just how much.

I am not sure how far behind AMD is with OpenCL, as far as API support goes, as they did demoed OpenCL + Havok a few months ago. Although Nvidia has recently announced first 'OpenCL 1.0 conformant' drivers which require you to sign some agree to get. Seems too close to call in my opinion.

Is all in a waste if it won't work on XP. Lets shift to OpenGL once and for all.

They need something. The only people buying their product is AMD fanboys. They need new customers not the dedicated computer geek in mom and dad basement.

DX11 who cares! Eye candy at the expense of FPS? Sorry, I will sacrifice the eye candy! Unless the features that DX11 provides are specifically pointed out, and even then you may really have to look hard to see them, they will not be appreciated by the common user. The current high-end cards provide great performance on the DX9 games and look good as well because you can crank the settings.

DXX has been out for a while and currently there may be around 20 titles that use it and several of those board games. Playing these games in DX10 mode is crappy because the performance is so poor even when using high-end cards. AMD keep your DX11 support, I am happy with DX9!

"It certainly is interesting to see AMD putting most of its energy into DX11 leadership while Nvidia focuses maniacally on GP-GPU with its C for Cuda and Open CL. So even though NV will likely be behind ATI in DX11, ATI lags behind NV in the GP-GPU battle, which is not insignificant in the slightest."

Oh my, being that I have only a small handle on what this does, it is completely insignificant to 99.998% of users that will play games on windows 7.

Will I buy a card that cant use Windows7 directx 11? No. that's about it then.

obviously another ATI's fanboy - "all NV cards fail, ATI never fail" give me a break you pathetic creature.
you can laugh at my English (which is just a secondary for me) but I laugh at your silly oven hardware with stupid software & support.

even if NV hardware were to fail more than ATI's (which is utter BS btw) I'd still rather use my warranty than be stuck with broken drivers forever.

and its not like the INQ is a place for nv fanboys now, its still pretty much biased & skeptical snub, but at least the mother of all bitches (CD) is no more.

What's insignificant will be the gaming market share of windows 7 users with first gen DX11 cards.

Charlie have left INQ. He hasn't talked about why. But here is his new site: http://www.semiaccurate.com/

Gotta love some of the comments here that think they dont need DX11. Probably cus they just wasted 2 c-notes buying a dead end card. Well, when you pick up that new game off the shelf, there are gonna be 6 words on it that will piss you off.
Minimum system requirements: Shader Model 5.0.
LMAO!

Idiot, I'm talking from PERSONAL FUCKING EXPERIENCE.

Do you know what thaat means? Do you? Clearly you don't.

Never anywhere have I stated that all ATi cards never fail. Nor did I state that all nVidia cards always fail.

I FUCKING CLEARLY stated that of the CARDS I'VE FUCKING OWNED I had not one ATI card FAIL. ALL the nVidia cards I've OWNED have FAILED.

Oh and I've not ever had any problems with drivers with ATi cards, yet I've had problems trying to install nVidia drivers in the past. So why should I waste my time and money supporting a company that I've experienced nothing but problems with?

Is this getting through that incredibly dense skull of yours, into that tiny pea brain?

Fucking moron.

All I can say is wow. You must be an out of work ATI product manager with too much free time on his hands to make posts like that. At the end of the day let's call a spade a spade. DX10.1 was a load of crap - PC Gamers didn't care and neither did the majority of ISVs. I can appreciate the fact that AMDs ATI division recovered from the abortion that was the 2900 XT with a strong series of products (670/770 gens) but please don't blow any more sunshine up our asses about DX11.

I love PC Gaming as much as the next guy but it's on the decline. Developers make more money off console games today - that's just reality my man. Check out the decline in your discrete GPU revenues, ASPs and margins over the past three years and tell me I'm wrong. And while some may still invest in after the fact PC ports most are not and there will be fewer and fewer PC games that push the graphics envelope anymore. That doesn't mean PC gaming is dead (how many times have we heard that) it just means that it's becoming a little less relevant as more gamers use consoles and mobile devices for entertainment. I don't like it, but it's reality and you need to own up to it and have a strategy to deal with it.

So while I can appreciate AMD/ATI will have the DX11 lead this holiday season with the Evergreen gen let's call a spade a spade - the games will be few and far between until 2010. Even then we're not going to see a watershed adoption from ISVs like we did with DX9. I am not saying DX11 doesn't matter I'm just saying it mattters a whole lot less then you'd like us to believe.

Now I am no fan of Crappy Useless Dumb Applications (otherwise known as CUDA)but GP-GPU is the future and ATI needs to get it's head out of its ass and commit. You talk a great game on it but you need to back it up with better software support and a proper ISV eco-system (with apps consumers may actually use). The Green Goblin has pulled it's resources out of buying games with TWIMTBP and is now focused squarely on buying off ISVs for GP-GPU apps. At the end of the day if discrete graphics is going to grow any further as a market (which is not looking so good these days) people are going to need to find tangible uses for the GPU outside of gaming and while NV is far from winning the war they've won the initial battle.

Please do us the dignity of speaking to us like real and somewhat informed people instead of giving us a bunch of superfluous marketing BS.

PS - good article Sylves but a little schizo in areas.

To the Idiot that said "Hey AMD/ATI, Nvidia, Intel you're next, without a gaming platform there is no need to upgrade." Actually Both ATI and Nvidia have thier Graphic Cards on the cconsoles as well. Anyways the PC Cards are the fastest and the consoles are just Refreshed every 5-6 years which leaves your consoles left behind in the technolgy that the PC's and MAC have. ALso a Console is mucch more expensive than a new PC. When you incclude the console itself, extra controllers, new HDtv, rechrageable battery packs, Xboxlive, $60 dollar games.

what everyone fails to realise is that if it wasnt for the improvments in the pc market, we wouldnt have games consoles like we do, we would still be back in the days of old text mode graphics cards and the like.

And DX 10/10.1 is a subset of DX11 meaning that games that were originally written for DX10/10.1 only require a few modifications to fully use DX11 as 10 is basically a cropped version of 11.

just read up on EA developers porting the game engine they use in battlefield bad company 2 to DX11 it only took them around 4 hours to make the engine fully use DX11 features so many DX10/10.1 games out could even end up with engine upgrade patches to DX11 such as stalker clear sky had for DX10 to add DX10.1

Console orientation in cross platform games is not a sign of consoles being favoured over PC, it is simply the game being designed for the lowest common denominator hardware to ensure broad compatibility.

There is a differance.

PC gaming is an afterthought in the game development world, now. Its all about the money, not compatibility. Most, if not all, A-list games are targeted for consoles BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT MAKES MONEY. They happen to work on our step-child PCs because the hardware/OS is built around the same technologies. Its ironic because the PC is always ahead as far as hardware goes but we get the short end of the stick. No more, I tell you. Im tired of this fanbois mentality... I'm joining the horde and getting a console and save money in the process.

I tell you theINQ must have replaced Charlie with Slyive as a softer but darker bias against NV

You are a real immature twat aren't you, Scorpion?

I love how you go down the route of using those petty, braindead insults favoured by five year olds, by insulting other people's family. Oh well, that's what happens when you have the mentality of a diseased toad.

You got a problem with me, fine. Don't you fucking say a word about my family, you pathetic diseased rodent.

Why don't you get out of your parent's basement for a change? It must be getting pretty lonely for you down there, spending all your time looking up gay porn and wanking yourself over every nvidia product that's released.

Actually why don't you go spend all day on nvidia's forums? That way you can wank your little pin dick all day long, with your equally retarded little nvidia pals?

hahaha fantasy boy, keep on dreaming.

your mother was responsible for your lack of education, i'm just trying to adjust so you can understand.

when I said your mom likes bukakke, I was talking about you - this is how you were born. rofl

btw, your sister loves golden showers.

omg, too funny

Lack of education? OK, it seems you are a tad confused. That's OK, it's not your fault that your parents are brother and sister.

Trying to adjust? Do not bother. As you only seem adept in speaking fluent moron and monkey. Nobody, not even a brainless, comatose, inbred monkey, who had their head repeatedly bashed against a brick wall, could understand the illogical, ranting nonsense that spews constantly out your diseased rectum.

have you looked in the mirror lately?

you are no better than me, you even talk dirtier...

go break your 8'th nvidia hardware, so you can say its malfunction pos :D

btw, your father attended at your mother's bukakke ceremony.

I wish you muppets would get off my internet. The day I feel any sense of dedication towards a piece of plastic with a fan on it is the day I put my head in front of a bus. Nvidia and AMD could easily be confused for the SAME company. The graphics hardware they produce is barely distinguishable in terms of application, performance and weaknesses. Just stop it, and don't start ever again.

Ordinarily I'd tell you to get girlfriends, but there's a risk that you might breed.

PC gamings largest revenues come from online gaming. Sony lost a lot of customers when they forced dx9.0c as a requirement for entrenched games that ran fine on dx8 hardware previously. Since then, Sony has not alienated any more of their customers with forced upgrades but thats not to say they won't if dx11 actually becomes mainstream, something dx10 never did. I would be curious to see how a forced move to dx11 would effect Valves revenues.

DX11 will only be AMD's weapon if nVIDIA can't deliver at least one DX11 GPU in a similar time frame. It looks like both companies have already missed the back-to-school window for OEMs, which leaves the October 22 Windows 7 launch as the next market opportunity...

Who really cares if ATI get to DX11 first, Nvidia always produce the better and faster cards, of course Nvidia cards cost more, but in the end you always get what you pay for :)

I know this is an old thread, but since they've been released, i have the hd5870, runs very cool, draws little power thanks to the die size, and is silent, just like nvidia's dx11 news. i did here somewhere that nvidia are concentrating there efforts with the phsysx and cuda engines to more millitary applications, non gameing based. ati seem to have hit the nail on the head with regards pricing and shear horsepower with a single gpu, also this, running the cards in crossfire gives of so much grunt the cpu becomes a bottleneck, even top ie7 processors. for a single gpu card the 5870 is the fastest on the planet, with more than 50 dx11 games penned for 2010, the winner is us, the pc gamers, if you have seen the difference via youtube, it really doesnt do it justice till you have it in the flesh, tesselation is the way forward. nvidia have nothing to show anybetter, it's mere speculation that they are going to bring anything to the table.