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Gainward/Palit ATI spat is a second rate hatchet job
IN A PUBLIC airing of a technical spat, another site is saying that ATI is being anticompetitive, monopolistic and other interesting names. This is a technical spat and the outing of it, six-plus months later is fairly odd timing.
The short story is this, Palit, owner of the Gainward brand has had, and will continue to build, some very nice high-end cards. The firm is also known for making some inexpensive cards. Those are the ones the current controversy centers around.
Industry sources have told the Inq that this problem has been bubbling since late 2008. Palit wanted to make board changes to reduce cost, not to please the high-end overclocking set as has been intoned. Those new changes did not pass ATI reliability validation for whatever technically arcane reason that boards fail these things.
Palit pushed on with the changes against ATI's wishes, so ATI cut it off. Last year. Two quarters ago. Why is this bubbling up now? We are not sure, but given that ATI has very imminent DX11 parts and Nvidia doesn't, it seems very silly that Palit would publicly air half-year-plus old dirty laundry now.
Everyone tells us that the relationship isn't beyond repair, and these two companies were pretty close in the recent past. ATI isn't going to budge on reliability, since the perceived blame for incompatible and dying cards tends to fall on them, not the AIBs. Just look at what happened to Nvidia. Oh, sorry, that wasn't their fault, every OEM screwed up.
So, in the end, ATI is claiming reliability, Palit is trying to twist the knife two quarters later. Two things pop to mind here that would make things a lot better for both parties. First, ATI and Palit need to sit down and find a compromise that does not affect reliability, there is too much to lose.
What coincidence!
Second, if you're going to get some obscure website to do a second-rate hatchet job on a company to gain cheap publicity, you really should make sure your firm's banner ad is not THE ONLY ONE running on the site other than generic Google ads. It makes things look, well... just too obvious. Own goal there guys. µ
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is this charlie's last article? or will he still continue posting.
Ah, the good ole 9xxx series.... I had the 9500 (red PCB), 9700 pro and 9800 pro... true powerhouses of the day. But still, the next gen nVidia 6xxx series blew them away. Usually good to wait for at least 2nd gen when going to a new code library.
Frantz knows who you are!
No, ATI had the DX9 card first (Radeon 9700).
Nvidia came much later, with the infamous FX 5800 (aka dustbuster)
Having had stall Out in first attempts, reinstalled FireGl, which is close or more in someways. yet, 4770 has Dx10.1, shader 4.1 & gilligans orange sweatshirt is Corner Orange Attraction , now. More shaders then gl, etc & more bandwidth, so pleased that Uno Saw buck did job.
Perfecto means magic & magic was installing Xp, then 4770 card & xp 4700 ati catylist, then installing 7 RC 64 & going back to ati fireGL v.3100. One of BEST & Cheapest Vista cards available.
Then installed 7 64 ati(NOT recommended by ati nor power color until after 4770 Fires Up) yet that gave hang time bit ati to ?prepare with drivers licking ?awayalready in partition, No Hang, just glide in, uninstall old drivers to ensure proper r(e)install & readjust resolution & text size to match new screen resolution.
only catylist consule is missing in action.
So Thats saturday mornings story. No Low yeids here (low yeilds are return rate vs average returns, in reality)) Ultee' 64 40Nm Power Color Bot.
ARE YOU DAVE?
Charlie is real and alive go for it! Charlie the unicorn is also the shiz! Go Charlie!
Nvidia had the first DX9 parts out, if I remember correctly and boy, were they real winners. First to market doesn't mean better.
To break this down...
1. Palit asked AMD if they could do something.
2. AMD said no.
3. Palit did it anyway.
I would assume that Palit asked AMD because that is a contractual requirement. If they were just going to ignore the response, why did they even bother to ask?
Seems simple enough from here.
I'd cut them off too. If my kid asked me if he could do something, and I said no, and he did it anyway, I would think that some punishment is in order.
"I suppose more choice would been nice though... Still I'll call that an under clocked 4870 instead of an overclocked 4850."
Nice way of putting, i didn't think about it like that. Until i came across this, nicely spun. Sometimes you have to spin the half truths.
...I own a palit 4870 1GB with dual BIOS. It runs 840/1050 vith the standard cooler! My life has never been so easy as it was when tweaking this card - thanks to the dual BIOS... it runs cool, has low noise (in 2D of course ;)), low power in idle and is stable as hell...
So what's the point?
Go! PALIT GO!
...a happy customer!
Well first of all, no other AiB has HD 4850 + GDDR5 so Gainward is jumping the gun and getting an unfair advantage over other AiBs. If it would have gotten more people to buy AMD/ATI then it is their lost and Nvidia's gain? If all/enough of AMD/ATI AiBs got together and demanded to be allowed to use GDDR5 (with any GPU even) then it'll be a differently story.
I still don't get why people are spilling their beans over:
http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/12704/34/
So, the hybrid HD 4850 ends up somewhere half way between an HD 4850 and HD 4870. Price wise, however, the new card ends up a bit too steep. Although it looks like a really good deal when you compare it to other overclocked HD 4850 cards, which use slower GDDR3 memory and run on lower GPU clocks, the new GHL still seem too pricey if you look at the HD 4870 series. For just €5 more, you can get Gainward's HD 4870 Golden Sample, an overclocked card with non-reference cooling, a 775MHz GPU and 512MB of memory running at 1000MHz.
I suppose more choice would been nice though... Still I'll call that an underclocked 4870 instead of an overclocked 4850.
There is no bias in reporting the truth!
If Charlie is not telling the truth... prove it !
Charlie to the Rescue!
Someone dared to be every-so slightly critical of Charlies beloved AMD/ATI
and tada!
Pants-man springs into action to defend the poor damsel in distress!
It's quite sweet really
this card was the "Palit HD 4850 Sonic Special Edition"
google it. it had GDDR5 memory
no longer for sale of course
There is a difference between not selling stuff to a company and paying several companies to not buy a competitor's products like Intel was accused of and condemned for.
Also to sell a package less than one part of the whole is quite unusual (see the atom + chipset more expensive than atom). Usually when I go to Macdonald, the menu is more expensive than the burger even if a little.
I was reading this and notice any interesting thing.. All of others articles that I read by Charlie is how is praises AMD and bash Nvidia. This is the 1st article I read where he is on the defensive.... Spinning the bad news.
The source for that piece is basically BSN again...
Also, I am quite confused by what is Gainward and AMD/ATI supposedly fighting over...
Radeon HD 4870 = RV770 + GDDR5
Radeon HD 4850 = RV770 + GDDR3
If Gainward wants to sell a RV770 + GDDR5 configuration for price of RV770 + GDDR3 then they'll have to absorb that cost/make less profit than other AiB partners (GDDR5 is more expensive). If Gainwards want to call that a "4850" I can see why AMD/ATI would take issue with that... And I take issue with that too as it'll be closer to Nvidia's naming scheme (only to confuse, in very biased my opinion).
So... AMD/ATi is all about reliability now huh?
So how did all those reference designed 4650s and 4830s make it out with bad caps and bad voltage regulation????
But ATi would never have let that slip would they? That was one of your pieces but I have noticed as have many others that you are very forgetful when something like this pops up...
So now Palit and Gainward (pretty much the same company) are looking to save some money and make a better card, big deal AMD should allow after all they do with other companies like Asus, Gigabyte, etc... why not Palit and Gainward?
If there is in fact a problem with the HD 4850/4870 reference design, it would be a stability problem, not reliability. Also, it only becomes notable when it's demonstrated in the wild.
Hey Charlie, speaking of reliability, I'm surprised you haven't mentioned the VRM issue evidenced by OCCT yet.
I mean, if it were NVIDIA, I'm sure we'd have heard about it at least a couple of times by now ;-)
Most of us know Charlie can't write an article without throwing his own bias at it. If he is doing this to just get more traffic. Sure, he's got my attention but his articles are just for laughs anyway.
yes Titius, read some real news, you tw@. You're going round in circles, you're telling Charlie to go read the site that doesn't do anything but speculate on BSN's "article"?
What Charlie's saying is absolutely true, you can construe what you want of this - but if you're just trying to attract hits to your site, that's what you do... you write like Hello! and imply that Mr. ATI was doing something naughty and Ms Palit didn't like it, so there was a falling out of sorts.
Honestly, there's the funnies, the facts and the gossip... I read The Inq for the facts and the funnies. Gossip? No thanks!
It's Charlie's inability to use proper grammar, syntax and punctuation that is the most frustrating part of his articles.
well, palit has never been a good firm, and it always had reliability problems, so i would't be surprised if they were banned, sure they had some good designs, but most of their cards would fail, we really try to avoid them here
Daisy IS Also symbol of Natural Birth. If You Going to Give Birth, At least Save Your Body from surgeons Knife, that removes ovaries, birth canal, womb & other organeles, Just For kick.Leaving mom into beast that turns, Basicly into male, in serum & body appearance.(Long,Thin & Mean)Desparte for Nourishment that will never satisfy.
However, gainwood might have made better card,in theory, broken into GDDR5 Ring, yet how would two of that intermixed model number from seperate manufacturers work in Crossfire, Probably REAL Bad.
At Least warning should Be On Box if Unit Dosn't crossfire correctly with ALL other ATi Cards At time, Due To Mistiming of Memories.
I don't want an unbias story that looks like it was paid for by the Corporation that sports and supports it. I can go directly to the corporate website if I want to be brainwashed into how i just can't live without handing them all my money for their best of class products they blessed and put upon this earth. Will you ever see a Company say.. " well the competition has better this and that than our products do" ......HELL NO! That why we have to rely on people like Charlie for the Truth. Charlie a.k.a "The Spin-Buster"
Thanks again Charlie good job!This is WHY I read the INQ and not Corporate sponsored crap news/review sites.
I checked, BSN is run by Inquirer crew:)
nice home goal Charlie!
And you call yourself a journalist?
Gainward and ATI fought each other because gainward made a 4850 with GDDR 5 memory, which basically is a 4870 at a lower price point than a 4870.
Ati didn't like that at all, because you know... revenues are good.
And ATI feared the other vendors would do the same, so stopped Gainward.
Read some real news:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20090527151616_AMD_Graphics_Chip_Marketing_Approach_Not_Compatible_with_Gainward_s_Palit_s__Report.html
Please, I like your reporting. People don't realize that this site isn't strictly a news site, it is also a rumor, whispers, secrets, speculation site by people who know the industry, have contacts in the industry, and want to report what they believe to be happening.
I love it.
Charlie,
Some of your reporting may well be true, (certainly took effort and drive to produce), but you don't help people believe in any of your articles because you have never written a single one without an agenda. An anti Nvidia one.
If any of your journalism to date has any truth and therefore value, for heavens sake at least make the slightest effort to appear less bias.