Apple is making a console

Apple is quite aware of the powerful
capabilities of new generation GPUs and their SIMD architecture far surpasses in performance the typical CPUs that are normally found in desktops and laptops.
I think that they will work on leveraging this to bring in more reliable computing such as in the areas of compression, and encryption, happening in real-time. Just to give an idea, the ipods and iphones don't have unlimited hard-drive space, therefore, eventually whatever xx-gig sized storage will run out and for encryption, they can apply this on licensed media so that they can easily tell which ones are illegally copied compared to the originals. That's just an example , so it all comes down to better , cheaper , faster again ie with that capability in an SoC, it's smaller with all the architectural enhancements and they can make more, and once again wow the world, think of it as a consumerized, all-in-one, jack-of-all trades gadget, that's a big eye candy.

I develop and market consumer electronics. Products are developed to meet a need and there is simply no need for an Apple game console like there is for a solid working PC, unlike crash-prone Windows machines, or a great digital music solution, like iTunes + iPod, or a user friendly Smartphone, like iPhone. So, as much as I'd like to see it, if lunched it will fail.

However, there is a need for a new home multimedia system and Apple has all of the elements in place to develop one.

Apple is not an innovator by any means, so expect them to take what others have done and improve the usability. There are plenty of solutions out there to improve on.

think, look at the current apple tv, $229.99 for 40GB, it's been out for a while, price usually dosent go down till next gen with apple, so it could be $129.99. $129.99 plus better graphics+dual core 2.4Ghz PPC CPU+512MB RAM+256 or 512 VRAM with bulked up iphonOS(stripped down OS X)could start at like $269.99-$329.99 as a media player+iphone integration+iphone game ports, and slowely as time goes on and market share could posibly grow mor developers could jump on board.

think evan at $329.99, if aple stuck to it's sceam and made it $400 it would be cheaper then the first ps3

http://kotaku.com/5271466/ubisoft-ceo-predicts-new-apple-gaming-hardware

Seems lke charlie's not the only one =)

When I first heard Apple was hiring hardware people I wondered why. Then it occurred to me: The Newton. Only this time it would work. A large iphone basically, with heavy processing power on demand and light power consumption on demand. Gesture based interface.

Ofcourse, Charlie's theory is better since there's a lot of money to be made in game console. The advantage of the game console market is the vacuum so to speak that each console operate in. Games don't need backward compatibility, forward compatibility, no 3rd party anything. Closed systems.

Apple is comfortable with closed systems. "It's not their style" someone wrote: well, mp3 players and telephones didn't used to be their style. It's not like they invented any of them.

If they are making it they should announce it at WWDC!
Cant wait to see how it will look and works!!
It will be better than Sony PS3 and xbox 360 threat!!!

Microsoft have taken the main reason that a consumer buys a PC and have spun it off into the loss making Xbox division, a cash cow office suite, and a solid email/calendaring/file server.

Meanwhile, Apple have a nice little suite of consumer friendly apps that are very slowly (but almost imperceptibly) driving market share, a locked in, money printing, digital music store/player/phone/app combo and the lions share of the professional content creation computing market.

The Xbox/netbook combo has been a 'swift kick to the old chap' for Microsoft, and has to be hurting the uptake of Apple computers as well.

It must be terribly tempting to bring the iApps to a locked down iTV/iPod touch for your telly. Even if the profitability of the consumer macs take a hit, there is the chance to make it all back through the app store

I think Charlie is right on. The next big technology market is the streaming/donwloadable HD movie market. In order for Apple to expand the Itunes brand into that market, they must get their software on a device that people actually attach to their TV's... the console.

The other big trend in technology is the growth of the MMO game space, which currently exists on the PC primarily because of the mouse and keyboard. There is the potential for a major technology company to capture the MMO market with the right software partners (i.e Blizz) and a black box that offers mouse/keyboard for ohhhh $300.

I can see Apple having a chance if they target the MMO space and offer an expanded Itunes with quality HD movie downloading capabilities. Add in some quality EA titles to fill out the usual console library fare. They have no chance if they attempt to compete directly in the traditional Japanese RPG/Fighting/platformer space.

Lol, idiot...pick up a shovel for a living brother, delivering the news isn't for you.

I just can't see it. Microsoft has threw billions into getting a slice of the market which was owned by Sony and Nintendo. I just can't see Apple wanting or having the guts to jump into that fish tank knowing it's got companies that can eat them alive in this sector. Remember too Sony and Microsoft can afford to undercut them if needed and have the fund to destroy them

Think about it this way, a year before the Xbox was released, who would've thought for a second MS would've had a snowballs chance at taking any market share from Sony? As it is, they lost some money, which really didn't matter to them, and are now a big player.
With the success of the iphone, and given how much of apples profits are coming from this new area, why not try others?
Though none of us can say for sure what's being planned, I for one would welcome another console, familiarity breeds contempt, the games out at the moment would never be so pretty if the PS3 was sitting on top of the pile all by itself.

Wouldn't the SDK just be Snow leopard and OS X development tools + a small amount of extra sauce for a console like UI? i.e. if can you write games for OS X a port to an Apple games console would be easy

The iPhone is not about the phone, dude. It is a portable software platform, and the computing platform of the future. *That* is why Apple is hiring all these chip people. They need to develop faster, more efficient chips for the next generations of iphones, ipods and iTablets

Who's coming up with the software? If this console was anytime soon dev kits would have been out for at least 18mths. I can't see an NDA - even an Apple NDA - silencing the entire games business.

I say this is the next iteration of AppleTV, with maybe a passing nod to games. Certainly not a 360/PS3 usurper.

I'm not too sure this would be a full fledged console. I was thinking a week console with a little storage built in that could play some basic games. What would its main purpose be then? Well think of their poorly performing Apple TV, but with an iPod dock, able to network with your iMac, iPhone, Mac Book, Airport.... Let it hook to your home surround sound system and HDTV and give it a remote that can be used as a game controller with motion sensing. Now you can play those iPhone apps on you TV, play your iTunes music and movies, copy things from one device to another, and surf the net. Really hard ware wise it does not require a lot, but to get a good user interface and easy to use controller might take a bit more. Maybe even have extra USB ports in the back to hook up extra iPod docks (for the family). If you want a keyboard, you could use your iPod Touch or iPhone or purchase a wireless keyboard. Maybe build in a web cam and mic.

I would love to see any new P. A. Semi chip in consumer hardware. If I remember correctly from German magazine C't, their first dual-core implementation SoC was around 3 times more power-efficient than Merom (only CPU) at the time with a uber-FPU (for the chip's size) on top of it. However, I fear the chip is dead. Supply on an end-of-life basis P. A. Semi said. What a pity, the "latest" Amiga was supposed to be based on it. It never ceases to amaze me how superior technology dies (or at least dives for a time) in this kind of market. Please Sony or Microsoft or Apple listen: I would like the thing Charlie described above, just add a keyboard, a mouse, and linux (or a browser and wordpad if you are microsoft). Release this thing (never mind size or design for me) first, then shrink it for a console. This way you could have a cheapo developer kit two years in advance. You could call it X720 PC or PS4 Media Centre or iBox or Amiga if your marketing likes. Just make sure there is some cache in it (more than on Cell) for non-gaming applications. Thanks

They're pretty successful in almost everything they do, so more power to them. We need more competition in that area to benefit the end-user.

The question is, what would the price tag be, considering their history?

So there is a PowerPC version of the OSX after all :P

Any chance you could proof read your articles *before* posting them

"IT NEVER CEASES TO AMAZE how dense reporters can be."

Heh, heh

Ok, let me add my 2 cents here.

1. there is a great shift towards netbooks and in general small powerfull-enough for internet use and other light things (and maybe movies) portable computers.

2. you cannot differentiate in this area - almost all designs available are identical - and Apple does not like that. Also the margins are very very low. Apple hates that even more.

3. my guess also is that maybe the atom platform is a big weak for a full-blown version of OSX.

4. PA Semi had a very very good proposition in terms of performance and power consumption. On top of that, they were making not only a CPU but a whole SoC including most of the peripheral logic needed. That means peripheral controllers, accelerators, bridges and the rest.

5. Apple has a PPC version of its operating system, of its software applications and apparently of developper tools. If I'm not mistaken, almost all current Mac applications have both PPC and x86 binaries, right?

6. So, let's see, Apple jumps at the netbook space, with a totally different proposition that could offer better performance, longer battery life, full OSX experience and maybe at a higher price range (let's say 500$ while all other netbooks go from 300 - 400$) with higher profits (coming from the control of the internals and from the higher integration).

I think with all this they have brought on board and with snow leopard getting heavy preformance improvements from GPU's i think all this fancy stuff is to make GPGPU modules for Apple computers such as the Mac Pro where i could see them having rails like with the hard drives and just slide in GPGPU's, say 2 for HD video encodeing or 4 for 3D model rendering.
The reason i say this is that i see Apple wanting to make there on GPGPU than rely on Nvidia or Intel.

I agree with most of the posters who suggest that a new AppleTV device is more likely than a dedicated games machine. Apple has long been known as the computer brand you don't go with if you want to play games, and they need something to break that stigma before attempting any kind of dedicated gaming system.

A new AppleTV that allows for games to be downloaded to it (even just basic retro style ones) in addition to the media features along with some decent kind of control interface could be a step in the right direction for getting Apple computers and devices prepped for real gaming. Just hopefully we don't see anything like that horrid Pippin controller again...

It really isn't a question of hardware either, as it has been proven by Nintendo with the Wii in this generation and Sony with the PS1 and PS2 before that it doesn't need to be uber powerful to succeed. The most important factors are more about value for money and range and quality of games. If Apple are smart, they will maintain good pricing for such a device.

@Phil G: Yes, Amiga was run by crooks back when they were owned by Commodore. There was so much fighting going on between them and Atari at the time and it eventually caused both of them to file for chapter 11. Although AmigaOS and some of their other technologies have been passed on to other companies.

Amiga also released a games console and media playback device. The CDTV came out about 1990 and could play video CDs, music CDs and some games, while the CD32 came out in about 1992 was much more like a PS1 which could be upgraded to a full working computer with the right attachments...

and now, how to get the game makers to actually make games for the console?

and the problem that the xbox ad budget is probably bigger than the sum total of sony , apple and nintendo's profits...

Apple doesn't have the respect from gamers required to compete at the high end and I doubt they're interested in competing with Nintendo (any serious competition would erode those fat profits). If anything, they'll make something powerful enough for Wii style shovelware to round out their home entertainment offerings.

BULLSHIT.

Fruity gossip, that's all it is. I hope Mr. Farrell will slap you for writing such things

Sincerely yours,
-TheINQReader

My take is that the PA Semi people, for all their PPC expertise, were mainly bought for designing ARM-based custom parts for the iPhone and related hardware products. They could easily get refocused to develop an Intel-free AppleTV, if that means a better product somehow (power consumption, heat dissipation, etc.).

That the AppleTV will ultimately evolve game console characteristics is a given. All the pieces are there, specially the App Store. My guess is that Apple will go at that step by step: it doesn't need to blitzkrieg the segment, really: just start the process and let developers get horny. But it needs to design a good game UI and controller experience first, and try some sort of integration with the iPhone and iPod Touch as remote game peripherals. They must be testing things, see if they can come with a Wii controller-like phenomenon.

About the GPU guys, they have several possible uses: from helping integrate GPUs into PA Semi-designed thingies to help them in the practical side of the whole OpenCL programming stuff, both drivers, APIs and apps.

Above all, I wouldn't get so fixated on the PowerPC ISA: yes, most consoles use them now, but that could easily change next gen if Intel does a better offer or Sony decides to design something even more exotic (PPCs on Cells are sort of traffic directors, mostly).

Now you could connect all these dots to show they are making a console, you'd probably be wrong given apple's historical indifference and failure in the gaming department but you could do it. What's far more likely is they are more interested in making their computers more competitive.

Let's first consider the hiring of the 360 people. If you were planning on making a console you hire people that know what they are doing, not the people who made the single most unreliable piece of hardware in the history of gaming. Ok, maybe the second since the power glove was pretty damn unreliable.

Then lets consider the GPU people. This could be because they want to make a console and need consultants or because they want consultants for their desktops/laptops or because they wanted to get into the GPU business themselves. These are just a few of the possibilities and a console is low man on the pole.

Next there is the powerPC people. Might this be because historically Apple systems have been almost exclusively based on the powerPC platform and they want to go back to it without losing the wonderful software compatibility they've gained from going to Intel. Hell it could even be because they want to get into the CPU business.

As for the game people this could be because they want to get into the gaming business or more likely it's because they're sick of being wholely dependant on Aspyr Media to port PC games to the MacOS platform.

Regardless of how you view these hires Apple knows that the gaming public views them in the same light that the modern church views Caligula, in otherwords extremely not well, and it would take a system better then the PS3 and 360 combined while cheaper then the Wii to change their minds. Anything short of that and they would just point and laugh while picking up a PS3, 360 or Wii. It's also worth pointing out that there has never been more then 3 consoles that managed to succeed in any given generation so it's unlikely that Apple would be interested in being the unlucky 4th. Hell now that I think about it that set of people is exactly the sort of group you'd put together to design a GPGPU which again given the bad odds of introducing a successful fourth console is far more likely.

If only Amiga wasn't run by crooks back then ... Amiga was so much ahead of Apple.

Beside, I'm still wating for an iRefregirator and a carbon unibody macbook hellium.

Why would Apple get into consoles when they could make games for their iPhone platform first?

Also, looking at the PS3, why would anyone want another over priced console vying for their dollars? The PS3 isn't an overwhelming success.

Thirdly: Apple would have a lot of trouble getting designers and publishers on board. I don't think it would be the reverse- devs and pubs courting Apple; why should they? Apple has so far been draconian in their approval process for the iTunes store, and there are already 3 existing consoles which the pubs and devs are able to create games for, without all the hoops to jump through that come with making something for an Apple product. Apple would have to actually come down off its high horse to succeed in the console market. That won't happen; it'd be brand image suicide.

This is Apple. The ISA of a chip doesn't matter to them. OS X runs fine on PPC (G4/G5 Macs), Intel, and ARM (iPhone). Developers can target any one of them by choosing a different option in a dropdown. This alone doesn't tell us anything about what they're building.

Console? Maybe. Maybe a juiced up Apple TV. I don't see how an Apple console could run App Store games though. You can't walk over to your TV and start touching it. Maybe they will just use the same App Store rev share model to get devs to make/port games.

A PPC chip based console makes no sense to me.
Apple's Mac future is projected over Intel CPU's, a new console from Apple wouldn't work in this time of crisis, unless it's the way to get programmers to do more games using OpenGL technology that could potentially run in new Macs too.
Why botter using PPC if you could make programmer's jobs easier using an intel architecture?
A low to mid budged console with an innovative new gaming feature would be appealing to me as a game programer ONLY if it can be easily imported to 10% of the PC market with NO emulation.

Someone asked why Apple would make a game console when it has difficulty getting game devs to target Macintosh.

Exactly. Apple would not have so much difficulty getting buy in for a console. Consoles are very popular.

And, if a supposed Apple console ran OS 10, then game devs writing for Apple's console will automagically produce code easily adaptable to Macintosh.

This could be just a big trojan horse by Apple to get devs to write for Mac, maybe create a rabid market for upgrades to macs by gamers. It certainly works in the PC world.

My pet theory is that whilst Sony and Microsoft are trying to own the home entertainment space by producing games consoles and moving them along the market segments (adding paid for music, movies, retro games), Apple plan to move in the opposite direction. What I mean is starting with a box that handles renting movies, buying music, syncs with iTunes, etc (i.e. Apple TV) and moving it towards games consoles by offering downloadable games.

Perhaps Apple have learnt from the iPhone/iPod Touch experience and plan to offer a fairly open SDK, 80% of revenue to developers, and a (mostly) open policy to publishing Apps; perhaps App Store policy improved with age-rating settings.

A casual gaming console, even more so than the Wii.

Perhaps this is behind today's rumours that Apple is about to buy EA -- which seems fanciful to me.

Chipless: why not PPC? the current three leading consoles all use different CPUs. The PS3 at least is hard to program at the level of the CPU compared to a 'regular' PPC or x86 chip. But, really, game consoles are pretty closed systems, the game devs work to APIs not the metal. There is no reason not to use whatever is least expensive but profides the horsepower required.

I think Charlie may be right: imagine a game console with Apple packaging design applied. It would be simply gorgeous and Apple knows how to sell gorgeous.

As well, Mac OS 10 ought to be rather portable being BSD UNIX (isn't the iPhone running cut down OS 10?) Apple has excellent 3D tech on top of OS 10. So not only does the company have the hardware side of a console covered, it has most of the software covered too.

My $0.02

um dude
you suck
they have plenty of apps that dont get approved now. there's no way they could realistically offer a good product on their console without giving up its `appleness` - the BSD core. games dont run on that - they run on linux cores lol

I remember Amiga was going to do something like that also. Maybe if we are lucky Amiga will take over the world of computers. Then we can have the aPhone and so on

It will have to do way more than just be a an Apple TV + AppStore. The current apple TV is basically a 2005/2006 era Centrino notebook, so it already has plenty of power to so anything the iPhone/iPod can plus way more. Apple has indicated in a conf. call that they will continue to evolve/develop the Apple TV. I will be interesting to see what they do here. I just can't see them doing a full blown gaming console. First, gaming is not their style, second, the GPU/CPU technology by Intel/IBM/ATI/Nivida is at the absolute best of what is possible, Apple would have to match/exceed their many years of experience and technology development right out of the gate. Attempting to develop a superior CPU or GPU is not like trying to build superior software

Again another great article! Haha. Anyways for the people who don't understand the underlying nature of OS X: It's a very portable system (think BSD being available on almost every single cpu architecture ever made!). Why the PPC? Games love FPU power for all of it's number crunching goodness. It's why all of the consoles today use PPC's and why all previous gen (exception being the original xbox) used PPC or some form of RISC architecture. Just because x86/x64 is the standard on the PC doesn't mean it's the best... but that deserves another article.

Because all the current consoles are PowerPC cores?

Nintento Wii, check; Xbox 360, three PPC cores, two threads each, check; Sony Playstation 3, one PPC core, two threads and some SPE, check: all PowerPC.

Moreover, Apple had a secret Intel version of OSX for years, and they continue to (mostly) support their old PPC hardware; would not be a challenge for them to have a PPC console version of OSX.

However, I am somewhat skeptical of a dedicated games console; what I can see them doing is a v2.0 of Apple TV that also supports an AppStore -- and thus games.

Why would Apple want to build a gaming console when it has enough trouble getting developers to develop games for OSX? Their are games for the iPhone and iPod touch, but who really cares? The hardware and software guys they hired are likely there to lessen Apple dependency on commodity parts. Remember, Apple is into CONTROL!! There have been some great console platforms but without developer support, any console platform is doomed to fail. What is the incentive for any developer to develop for an Apple console given the problems with Apple's payment system paying developers for iPhone/iPod touch software? Apple has enough trouble getting anyone to develop for the OSX. I don't see alot of developers drooling over the prospect of an Apple Console for the 3% of the market who would buy the overpriced, overhyped kit, in this economy

To get where it is, the Xbox 360 into lots of peoples home, Microsoft has taken their cash pile, opened the local sewer and paid people to shovel cash into it.

I can't see Apple being so keen.

They will milk the iPhone harder than any product in their history. These people are all about doing just that.

A console maybe, but PPC? Why would Apple want another architecture?

Don't rule out a phone - the "application processor" part. I think Apple are moving to control more of their product - I'm sure they can do better with their own chips than with commodity chips in this area - the RIGHT features and ONLY the right features and the design - hardware and software optimised to preserve battery life - you need them both, designed together.

I think everyone learned a lesson from the PS/3, people don't want to spend a lot on a console, no matter how bad ass it is. And what does Apple make? Hardware more expensive than anyone else. I don't see this working for them, if your guess work is correct.

don't forget the games (not those iPhone junk games) or the console is dead before its birth...

Charlie, this was an interesting article.

Too bad it was utterly WRONG!! Do you actually think Apple's staff are not designing chips to be used only on Apple hardware? It is amazing that you can not feel the disgust Steve Jobs feels the more he has to rely on commodity parts. He is trying to limit that dependence as we speak.
You think he enjoys companies like Psytar doing that crap to him?

Hey, maybe we will see the pippin 2 down the pipe. But the chips he is having designed now are going to the company's most profitable sector....mobile devices!

What's an internet? Me card read good.

Next-gen apple TV with appstore game capabilities

Using the Bandai Pippin as an example of why Apple has failed in the console game and shouldn't try again is just silly.

Remember a little thing called the Newton? I didn't think so. But who's heard of an iPhone/iPod Touch?

The Apple of now is not the Apple of then... and with the exception of AppleTV this apple doesn't fail at much.

P.S. - I am not a fanboi, I don't own anything apple, not even an iPod. I just thought the Pippin argument was weak.

They've been there and done that already... anyone remember the Apple/Bandai Pippin?

I was lucky enough to actually be given one a few years back, wasn't really much use as it only had one disc with it which was an Epson printer demo disc (it attached to Epson printers and printed off nice pictures).

IIRC it was PPC Mac based and ran a modified version of something like MacOS 8. Sods law I lost the damn thing when I got divorced and had to move, bit of a bummer that since they go for megabucks on eBay now.

Oh well.

You could well be right though, maybe it'll be a new version of AppleTV which includes some sort if game playing ability too?

Not so keen on the idea of having to download games over the net though especially with the low limits UK ISP's generally give you (unless you know where to look or are willing to pay a bit extra).

Rob

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandai_Pippin

It's been done before and it failed just like the Apple TV did.

If this theoretical console was also an expandable DVR, Blu-Ray, Media Center/Kaleidescape-like, Cloud Gaming capable HD Slingbox it may have a chance.