XP Mode in Windows 7 is a scam
IF YOU HAVEN'T been stuck in a cave lately, you will undoubtedly have heard that Windows Vista SP2.1, aka Windows 7, will have an 'XP mode'. Before you jump up and down for joy, you should know that it won't do what you think it will, it is a scam.
Microsoft is conducting a very carefully crafted PR campaign to make Windows 7 seem less broken than the Broken OS (Vista / Me II), but it isn't. It gives long lead previews to people it knows will kiss up and not criticize the OS in order to create 'good buzz'. Sadly, with regard to Microsoft's Windows 7, the PC industry press is abdicating its responsibility to report objectively about a vendor's product, and the public is, well, dumb as rocks. It will believe almost anything it's told and never question the source. Yes, I am talking about you.
That brings us to the latest round of this manipulation, Windows 7's XP mode (XPM). It was first 'leaked' on Supersite for Windows, and the commentary was suitably vague. It is said that XP Mode will only appear in three versions of Windows 7 - Professional, Enterprise and Ultimate - the ones that you will be entitled to upgrade to real Windows XP on anyway. For a number of reasons, that upgrade is a much better path.
Ostensibly, the reason is that those three versions are 'licenced' to use Windows XP, and this has been a real cash cow for Microsoft with the Broken OS. It refuses to sell you the OS you want, makes you jump through artificial hoops to get the OS you need, and charges you for the privilege. One of those hoops is to have to buy a much more expensive OS to 'qualify' for the 'downgrade'.
The real reason for offering it only on the business oriented versions of Vista is that it won't actually do what you think it will, it too will be broken. XPM will run XP in a VM under Windows 7, which will use VirtualPC technology to simulate a PC, and that is the key to why it will be so broken when it shows up.
The requirements are high, and to kick things off, you need a PC that supports VT or AMD-V, which in itself is a very good thing. If you don't understand how this works, read these (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8), they will give you enough background to filter out Microsoft's FUD. The main takeaway is that Windows can't share peripherals yet, and almost assuredly won't be able to until after Windows 7 is replaced.
Why is this important? Well, the main difference between AMD-V and VT is that AMD-V is able to virtualize memory access in a much more transparent way. When AMD-V based VMs look to memory, they take a few cycles hit, but VT VMs get hammered by having to do a bunch of translations on the memory addresses. The speed difference is quite extreme, and it is why AMD had a huge advantage in VMM deployments for several years. With Nehalem, Intel has caught up.
Neither however is able to virtualize peripherals, and the prospects of doing so are fairly dim. If either side puts that capability into the CPU and chipset, you will also have to wait for peripheral makers to get up to speed. On the high-end enterprise side, things like multi-port NICs will probably get there first, but consumer widgets won't see it for a long time.
Until devices are all virtualization aware, you can't share them. VMMs have a choice, to hard assign a peripheral to a VM, or to present a virtual device to the VM. The hard assigning is a good way to do things if you have as many devices as you have VMs, but many VMMs don't support this, and I can't recall any client virtualization packages that do, much less ones that run on top of the OS like XPM.
The other way to manage devices is much more common, that is, presenting a virtual device to a guest OS. VMMs will have a set of virtual hardware devices that look like those in an older, generic PC - basically a lowest common denominator version of a NIC, SATA controller, sound card and GPU. As long as they are a subset of the currently available hardware, vendors should be able to craft drivers that work with both their hardware and the VMM.
Getting back to why XPM will be so broken, think about this in terms of the GPU. There tends to be one GPU per computer now, and that is unlikely to change radically in the near future. The Broken OS (Vista) and Windows 7 need a GPU to run their desktops at any speed worth mentioning, that is, they need 3D acceleration. While this may be a stupid design choice on the surface, it really hoses any VMs that need to run under it, and that's quite a lose-lose proposition.
Windows 7 will grab the GPU to run the desktop, and it can't share the device. If it were even possible, you could possibly assign the GPU to XPM, but that would mean you'd lose GPU acceleration for the desktop, CPU use would spike, and things would start to resemble molasses in the winter very quickly. This much brain twisting logic is unlikely to be implemented even if it could somehow technically work. Basically, the host OS, Windows 7, can and must own the GPU fully.
What does this mean? It means XPM will only 'see' a generic 2D video card, and if you are really lucky, it will see some basic 3D features. Want games to run? Nope. Want hardware accelerated sound? Nope. TCP/IP acceleration? Nope. Anything cool? Nope. You will be stuck with the virtual equivalent of a Best Buy special from 5 years ago, a PC that looks up to the blistering graphics power of an Intel 965 chipset.
To make matters funnier, all those virtual devices will take their toll on speed, so it won't run fast at all without very modern hardware. Add in the fact that you will need all of the resources to run Windows 7 PLUS all of the resources you need to run Windows XP. From what we hear, Microsoft recommends 2GB of memory for Windows 7, but then again, it also said you could run Vista in 512MB. Har har. Upgrading to Windows 7 on older hardware promises to be a very poor choice.
So, what you will get with XPM is not an XP machine but a bloated resource hog that emulates the worst of 2004. Slowly. It may be a good fit for green screen COBOL apps that won't run on the Broken OS, but that is about it, and you will pay for the 'privilege' in terms of resources used and speed of operation.
We won't get into the funniest parts (yet), but think about this, Microsoft is claiming that XPM will be able to interact with Windows 7 apps seamlessly. I don't doubt that it will be appear seamless to the user, but there will have to be some pretty horrendous low level OS contortions going on under the surface to make it work.
Do you think XPM will run in user mode or in a more protected mode? No cookie if you guessed that it will run in privileged mode, because the host OS will essentially have to hold 'Ring-1' to use hardware virtualization, and will use that level of access to pass data back and forth.
Can you say gaping security hole? Do you think people will remember to keep patching their XP Mode installations in the background? This is going to be fun to watch, as people install XPM, realise it is so broken as to be useless, and then forget about it. See the problem now? Microsoft sure doesn't, but then, I was sitting next to Alex Saint Croix when Microsoft's security chief compared all the security problems in a Redhat distro to the ones in only a Windows 2003 kernel. Microsoft doesn't care about security, never did, never will. Caring about security might cost it real money, and that can't happen.
In the end, XPM won't do what Microsoft is trying to make you think it will. It isn't XP, it won't run many XP apps at a tolerable speed, and you will have to spend a lot of money to find this out. It is simply another Microsoft scam that is being 'leaked' out by the faithful suckups in the PC industry press to create buzz and foster the illusion that Microsoft has an upgrade path for orphaned Windows XP users.
I can't say which is sadder, trade press abdication of responsibility, people not questioning what they're fed, or XPM itself. There is one thing that is quite clear, however. If you want XPM now, you can get there at no cost. Go download Ubuntu or Fedora Linux, and use Xen, VMWare or any other free VMM out there with your existing Windows XP licence. You will then have the same end result as using XPM, save money, gain security, and get off the Microsoft treadmill. The choice, and the money you will save, are yours. µ
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See: http://community.winsupersite.com/blogs/paul/archive/2009/04/29/microsoft-finally-discusses-xp-mode-in-detail.aspx
Microsoft is saying directly its designed for business users, not consumers attempting to run games. Its designed to run some crappy financial program from 1998, not some advanced software. Also from that link it notes that its configured to run with automatic updates and the Windows firewall
Yes, its not the ideal solution for everything performance/security wise, but it works in the fact that they can truly say if your app worked in XP it can work in Windows 7. In this sense, its not a scam at all
What a load of immature biased crud!
WTF... Thats a rather unnecessary rant. So it may not work brilliantly, but at least M$ are trying. XPM has got to be better than no XPM after all, and considering the type of corporate legacy application this is aimed at, I think it will be fine.
I'm doubting very much that anyone is going to be using this at all. It would involve quite a bit of knowledge to run it correctly "IF" anyone decides to switch to 7 and use XP Mode. If it's anything like places I've worked at, when an incompatibility is encountered, you've already reached EoL with Warranty/Service, or you've looked for an alternative. There aren't many programs that I've run across that weren't proprietary, which didn't run on Vista... but, of course, no company has used Vista that I know of.
That said, even with 7 being "Vista Sp2.1", it's still a massive improvement. We've been testing it ina corporate environment and found that it's as snappy as linux under pressure and has less issues than Vista. That's definitely to be expected by a basic revision of a broken OS. Nonetheless, it seems much more capable and simple. I honestly don't know how they could change anything and make fireworks fly from people's A $$es if they don't like Microsoft anyway... if they built on XP, it would be considered a "service pack" and if they change it too much, it's basically garbage because it's not Linux. Either way, some people will hate them regardless of what type of product they put out.
Having tried it, it's an OS that I would actually pay for. I haven't agreed to that since Server 2003, which still remains the best OS they've ever created to this day.
A scam? Really? I get the feeling the author has never been exposed to virtual machines before, and likely thinks the only use for a PC is to play games. (Must do his authoring on a Mac)
Sure, he threw in a few other devices like networking that cannot be virtualized, but the reality is those doesn't matter one nit. Unless you're running a compute cluster or iscsi host, the speed of all those other devices is completely irrelevant.
XPM is there for one thing, and one thing alone... to help businesses upgrade while keeping their legacy apps that probably won't work on W7. That's why it's in the *business* versions of W7.
of course Charlie, you have proof of all this lack of functionality and it isnt just your obvious, personal, anti microsoft, fanboi type of closed minded view
While MS may have its faults, as any multinational does, you dont give them any credit for the boundaries they are pushing on all fronts, not just desktop
The Inq itself has become more and more anti MS at every opportunity which is quite sad really as it used to slag everyone evenly, in a funny way
Charlie you missed the point. VM XP isn't going to run the latest and the greatest 3d game or app. As Dan pointed out its made to support the finance software from 1998.
Have you even tried windows 7? Vista SP2.1? Hardly. Keep ranting about it after you try it. Better yet, grab the RC and run with it for a couple of months.
This is in no way shape or form meant to use software that needs hardware acceleration. This is meant for ease the upgrade path of businesses. Thank you for pointing out the current limitations of VM charlie but you're a bleeping idiot for thinking that anyone would want to run a game in XPM. You completely missed the point in order to mash up some sensationalist journalism.
Charlie -
Your vendetta rants, while sometimes amusing, get old rather quickly. Referring to Vista as "The Broken OS" continues to show your inept level of technical fortitude. There is nothing "Broken" about Vista, aside from the individual that sits at the keyboard. Windows 7 would hence be just as broken by your standards. By my standards, XP is a step backwards, akin to the step that XP made from 2000. Everyone and their mother moaned when XP came out. Nobody wanted to leave Windows 95/98 and 2000. But where are we now? Extolling the virtues of XP in the face of Vista and 7. Give it a rest, sit down and objectively use the OS for what it is.
Yes, I used the word objectively - I apologize, I forgot where I am.
XP mode is a stopgap measure, particularly for those that will enjoy the migration to 64-bit land, which incidentally has absolutely NO support for 16-bit applications. Those very same 16-bit applications, none of which I can even fathom, have any need for more than a 2D raster engine and maybe some rudimentary 3D support, yeah, that blisteringly fast GMA945 chipset would be exceedingly fast by those standards.
The point of XP mode aren't those applications that take a toll on your feeble mind in order to make run on Vista (let me help: www.google.com)... it's those applications that WON'T run on Vista and take a toll on anyone's mind in order to effectively run in XP in the first place.
duh, isn't it a journalists job to push your buttons? wake up and smell the coffee, oh wait you did and reacted. that's exactly what they want.
Charlie,
Go get yourself a copy of VirtualBox. Run it under, say, OpenSolaris with some half-decent NVidia card. Install Windows 7 as a client. Do not forget to enable the 3D acceleration for it. (BTW OpenSolaris comes with the real NVidia drivers, supporting the very latest devices; if ones chipset is a bit older, one has to downgrade it post installation to get it running).
"3D" in this context means only OpenGL at this moment; DirectX support will come later. My point is, OpenGL on this Virtual W7 machine will work *better* than on W7 installed on bare hardware. Believe me, I've tested it.
BTW most of the things you mention about VirtualPC actually work for VirtualBox, e.g. exclusive access to USB devices. If that can be done by VBox, I don't see why Microsoft would not do something along those lines with their virtualisation product (BTW SeamLess mode of VBox works quite well, albeit it's a bit strange to have several toolbars of different systems on the same desktop...).
So the VPC idea in my view is not too bad, actually. Other commentators already mentioned this is for business users and not for game playing, so ranting is a bit too over the top in this case. On top of that, no one forces you to install it - probably it will be additional feature to add via the control panel, and is free.
I couldn't finish reading all of that, it was way to much in all honesty. Anywho i have to say i love windows 7, it runs beautifully on my pentium 2.4GHZ pc with only 1GB ram on old hard drives. Runs flawlessly too.
CHARLIE!!! There's the biggest "scam" I've ever read or witnessed! ROTFLMAO! Talk about a biased whining baby.....Charlie, you fit the bill!
sorry to say: i know it won't mean to a hill of beans to the author: hopefully inquirer will take note: I am deleting my rss feed. recently too much of this nonsence!
I'm probably the only one here that will agree with Charlie but not as strongly as he has put it, yes it wont be ready in time as per usual with microsoft but when it has been released it will work for old programs, MS have already burnt their fingers on Vista, they are not THAT stupid to do it twice in a row. Problems with come with desktop support for businesses!
and for the dumb people who will be labeling me a 'fanboi' i have been using linux at home for the last 5 years. when im at work, I use XP. An OS is an OS!
Hello,
I use the MED-V (the enterprise version of the XP Mode)and it works fine.
Simply try it first.
Actually there are a lot Intels out, that doesnt support VT.
May be some cusomers just lelax for the Vista Bump and get the next straigt in.
Time for a cpu market overview (that of chrismas business included).
Yeah! Virtual PC! biggest scam of the year! Clearly!
Really, most people who've heard of this knew it was done by virtualisation and what that entails. Nobody's saying it's the perfect solution, but it's a very good one and one that looks like it will be implemented quite elegantly. It's slow - okay, so what?
It's not going to be used for every application, just the odd one here and there that won't work under Vista and 7. Nobody's expecting you attempt to run Crysis or even Half life 2 under this, but then you won't have to.
Wow, VT or Now V, something like Ready Boost, Trys to Sort Out Problems & establish correct path to effect software. It can control entire system for while, yet its due to NEWNESS & Complexity of Market.
Making your Machine CrashFree Is Good. X Is Good. Tablets Are Good, Charlie.....Did You Take Your Ready Boost This AM?
STeWie Drashek
Yep. Vista SP2.1 is accurate. Nothing is compelling here. Its these ribbon/classic start menu hating jackasses that are risking the 80-90% market share with the half baked horrible "new UI concepts and Ideas". They suck. Suck suck suck. I see no compelling reason or feature to pay for Windows 7, and it will suck in the enterprise just as badly as Vista did. In fact, XP in a VM makes for a support nightmare, and doubles the securitizing and patching efforts. FU Microsoft, I've been an MCSE Since the late 90's, and this new round of software sucks. It simply breaks more things than ever before. Period. End.
All it does is build a headless VMxp box and use cirtix like rdp to run applications. it doesnt need to support drivers, networks or 3d acceleration. the host does that.
secondly, this is only a xpm for people who need to keep using applications that are sooo horribly written they cant run correctly like a real portable win32 application should. this is purely for corporate users...
VirtualPC is junk! The version I tried would only boot windows. I know it's a product from Microsoft and they have no reason to make it compatible with other OS's, but still. I know from experience that xVM works with XP, win7 and ubuntu. If anyone needs XP on Win7, use xVM. Free, fast and open!
As with most inquirer articles the essence is there, yet it gets lost in the rant. As most people have pointed out no one is going to get windows 7, run VMM and play 3D games (well some idiot will probably try it), as for a feature i would rather it be there than it not be there.
Question, DO any inquirer reporters know how to write a balanced informative article?
XPM is a last resort for legacy business applications in the Enterprise. It's better than forcing a company to buy more software in order to upgrade their OS.
As for games and other Windows XP applications, Windows 7 Compatibility tab on the "executable or shortcut" works far better than Vista. I haven't found an old Windows (32-Bit) application that won't run under Windows 7 and tweaked compatibility settings. Most old games will run with just "XP SP2 Compatibility Mode" + "Run as Administrator". Others require disabling the "Visual Themes", "Desktop Composition", and "Display Scaling" in order to get in-game movies to work.
As for Windows "gaming" by itself... you'd be pretty stupid to try and run them within ANY virtual product (VMWare, Parallels, Virtual Box, MS Virtual PC, etc.)
Windows 7 is what Vista should have been (Yes, I still think Vista is a POS), and again, XPM is a LAST resort for Enterprises not being able to get certain legacy business software to run. (Which is why it is not included in the Home Versions)
I'm a little confused, I'm sure someone can help me out.
I currently run XP using VMWare Fusion on one of Nick Farrell's favourite computers.
When I connect a USB device, a dialogue box pops up and asks which OS I want to use the device for. I choose, and all works well.
If I then want to use that peripheral on the other OS, a quick pop-up menu let's me 're-assign' it.
It's probably as intuitive as it can be, doesn't take much figuring out, and works like it's supposed to.
So if it's possible to run XP just fine in a VM when the host OS is fruit flavoured, surely it will work just fine when the host OS is also Windows?
Maybe I've missed the point...
I thought more of theinq.. this has been known for months and yeah its just virtualisaztion. isnt this comming out for vista too... big deal, get vmware!!
Charlie,
What you say does not make sence for the target audience.
Microsoft is targetting this for business apps to let businesses migrate to Windows 7 who have legacy applications (ie written by one programmer 5 years ago who has since resigned) of which 99% will not need the GPU, or will be fine with software direct 3D.
Also - I already run all my development within a virtual machine running the previous version (Microsoft Virtual PC 2007) just to keep development tools off my main laptop. For those scenarios speed is perfect already. The only exception would be games, which I have not tried but of course you would be correct that 3D games would run really poorly. Note Microsoft is not even putting this stuff in the consumer versions..just the business versions.
Your comments about memory requirements state you have not read anything about Windows 7. Sure, every prior OS needed more memory than the last version, but Win 7 is clearly the first Microsoft OS where this is an exception due to netbooks (etc) - please read up for yourself.
BTW: The new driver model does technically allow multiple applications to share the GPU with the desktop. So it would be at least technically possible for Microsoft to write a 3D graphics driver than works as the same time as the main desktop (all in hardware) - I am not saying they have implemented such a driver for XPM
Everything you comment on just seems silly - apart from security where you are 100% correct. Let us hope Microsoft has a solution in place for this.
David
Charlie, stop playing with the grown up software and go back to watch teletubies.
XPM is for the big boys. it is not for you and your teletubies games.
A business feature for business needs.
It won't do what Charlie Demerjian thinks, clearly. To everyone else who has the slightest experience with virtualisation this will do almost exactly what it's supposed to but nothing that can't already be accomplished using VMWare or xVM. And to be honest I'd rather use them than a bastardised instance of VirtualPC.
Nothing further to add that hasn't already been said 24 times in the above comments.
have you even taken a moment to contact microsoft, try this feature, read more? I doubt it.
This feature is mainly focussed on business users that have legacy apps in their corporate environment.
this seems like a pretty ingenious use of VPC and the RDP protocol. i've never seen RDP hog system resources (which is what this basically is - transparent remote desktop & VPC).
I'm sure many users that were faced with a windows vista migration path will welcome this Windows 7 feature that allows IT to upgrade from XP and maintain a phased approach to application compatibility. As opposed to Vista which would have forced them to maintain a dual-os IT environment.
I used to enjoy reading some of your articles, they were fiery and used to fire up the community - but more and more these don't seem like they're based on fact, or informed reason. weak.
I will just use their other bulls_it xp till 2014 (that's when they stop patching it, as far as I remember).
What is the real benefit of upgrading? Also why not try the dual boot method, may work... I'll try that myself after the thing is released... hmmm.... need to find some cracks for the test though, the typical folk out there are not as rich as IBM to waste millions on stupid talking PCs that can answer questions you know.
Bye. Jon.
I thank charlie VERY MUCH for this info. NO I'm not a business user ,NO I'm not a program developer/programmer. YES I WAS fooled into thinking this Win7 would run all my 3D GAMES in XPM when hearing about XP mode. Now thanks ,and I'm ever greatful to Charlie I can save the $300.00 Win7 retail was going to cost me to find this out the hard way.
So what if all i do with my PC is play online games and maybe edit some pics from my digi cam and do video chat sometimes, I pay way more for my OS than these OEM's and big business users that get mass quan. discounts and pay through corp. accounts ,which means their customers (me again)foot the bill for thier pc's and software eventually! To all those KNOW-IT alls out there bashing Charlie ...Go open your OWN news site and write your own stuff so someother knowitall or trolls can bash you too.
If INQ news is FOR THE MASSES well that includes me and I'm happy with everything Charlie wrote because now I know thanks to Charlie!
Ignore those WinDOHs fanbois Charlie, their probably Micro$ucks employees worried about job security evertime their mealticket OS gets EXPOSED !
And thanks again INQ for supporting news for EVERYONE including noobs like me.
First time in all the years i read this site that i thought a writer was biased and shortsighted.
I hope to be proven wrong!
First thing is that basicly you can virtualize a (3D) GPU. Cause if your desktop is in 3D... and your VM is in 3D...then you just need to translate it 1 to 1.
Yes! theres a translation cost but it's doable... the second this is...
It does what it says on the tin!
It is a XP within Win7 to run applications that only work with XP due to driver or other issues. (Thinking old accounting software like "King")
I use a same solution with WinXP under Ubuntu for those situations where you want a quick fix... solution.
Really weird... first time in years I didn't agree with the INQ...
who-the-f*ck are you anyway?
Read through this article again, and see how many times you can count Charlie's assumptions on XPM!
Best to have the facts before writing such a slanted piece.
This is a huge load of bullsh!t! And your an idiot for writing it. Seriously, talk about too much time on your hands.. It sounds to me like you just plain don't like Windows in general so you think that gives you the right to post false garbage like this retarded article...
Wow, Drashek almost made more sense than Charlie. Maybe they should think about swapping roles?
This has got to be your worst article yet.. which says alot considering the immature crap you've written in the past.
Mr. Charlie Demerjian,
You really are clueless.
Sincerely yours,
-INQ reader
Will it cause headaches for small businesses with simple networks, like Vista did?
Win7 XP compatibility, omg, wtf are MS doing? Making a perfectly good OS like XP run like a pig is just ludicrous.
When pc's can be bought for £300 that run XP fine, why put a more expensive OS like Win7, VM and XP onto it, only to find the 1GB RAM is now not enough?
I know of a few local small businesses with legacy applications, car garages, construction companies etc, and these guys don't want to pay out for IT fees. Vista got them very annoyed when it wouldn't work easily on their simple networks, and required some IT costs to get working.
MS should just keep selling XP, it's costing them nothing to develop, sod all to maintain, and it's still selling for a high price. Why kill the cash cow?
Why is MS really killing XP? It's just so profitable.
I don't exactly think of Vista as "broken". It's simply a bit of a rough program for a lot of people to use because it is such a memory hog. If you have the capacity (like I do), Vista works just fine. The one thing I DON'T like about it is that it asks you if you are "sure you want to do this" every time you try to do something on it.
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damn charlie, i can't defend you on this one. that was pretty weak and a poor understanding of VM's
Chuckle chuckle chuckle...
Windows is evil and stupit bler bler bler wake up sheeple!! bler bler watch Zeitgeist bler bler bler vote Moot! bler bler hack more bad programs Ron Paul for Quarterback bler bler...
you linux people are gonna be so pissed of now. you can see that microsoft is passing you all by and leaving you in the computer stone age while you have barely even caught up with windows 95
haha you a bunch of ugly nerds who think you can beat microsoft but you suck and windows is leaving you all behind while you eat it's dust
windows 7 has a completely new and awesome UI that is actually making progress while your ubuntu looks worse than windows 95 and it will never change
and windows 7 works flawlessly there are no bugs and all software and hardware works for it while linux has trouble running programs that would have been cutting edge in 88'
and to top it off windows 7 is lighting fast
your gonna be so pissed keep up your whiny rants youll never beat microsoft
Well having loaded the beta for Win7 and finding it already better then the V$#%a {Me II} thing, I would say MS has finally lined up their next OS.
I tested Win7 on both a Core2 e6750 with 2G of ram and it ran flawlessly; nvidia 8800gts video. I also installed on my Intel Atom 230 and it also ran very well. I'm not sure what specific issues the folks criticizing Win7 are having but I didn't run into any of it, unlike my several Vista experiences.
I typically find INQ articles fare but some of the early Win 7 ones seem to start with a full Negative tilt rather then giving the new/updated OS a fair chance.
Charlie is always too quick to dismiss anything from MS ...and Intel, and Nvidia, and Apple, and anyone else he's had problems with or simply doesn't like.
This is *NOT* about providing you with a 2nd OS to run, so that you can choose to run your legacy apps in XP without compromises, it's about providing a fall-back position for Small-Med Business, who have important business apps that they can't abandon, don't play nice in Vista/Win7 and which the developers are either not going to upgrade or are too slow at doing it.
Larger business already has a better option for managing this requirement - Application Virtualization Server 4.5 - http://www.microsoft.com/systemcenter/appv/default.mspx
Obviously, this is overkill or too expensive for SMB, and the XPM option might be just the ticket they need to allow migration from XP.
You unbelievable shit-head. Have you done any technical research before writing this unnecessarily biased and inaccurate rant? Have you even used Windows 7 for a period longer than 5 seconds? The XP-mode is there for people running important apps that they heavily depend on which will only run on XP. You don't get XP and 7 for the price of 7. Your mother gave birth to a complete moron! I am sick and tired of people in "high" places writing inaccurate articles which anyone with limited experience in the field will take as valid. This is why there is so much confusion and misinformation in the technological field. The wrong people are given access to a mass-media source to post on. Shame on you Charlie!
Charlie you have been owned. Most of the people that read this site are well versed in virtual machines. They work awesome and that is why VMWare is becoming a household name.
It has been stated that this is not for games, but realize what it does give you. With MS shipping a free VM of XP it allows them to move on and not have to support XP software going forward. They can clean out all the legacy code that clogs up their kernel. It is an awesome idea.
Face it we need to move on and progress, we can't just support old software indefinitely. But by shipping a built in VM it gives companies assurance that they can transition their software on their own schedule.
Thanks for the laugh.
Seems these business people just don't get it ! Businesses DO NOT REALLY BUY ANYTHING!
All costs are passed on to the customer/consumer. That's who is paying to keep their business open.And those customers/consumers are really paying for all these businesses Buildings,Furniture,Computers,Software,Bills,etc.
No consumers/customers=No business. So when the cost of their service/product or problems start to outweigh the benifit/happiness/satisfaction to the consumer/customer and Joe Consumer/customer gets fed up and stops paying/buying,Guess who will be out of business ? Unless your business is a necessity of life like Housing,Food,Clothing,etc. Or you cry whine to powerful Gov, buddies for a bailout (again paid for by Joe Consumer)
LESSON = Don't over value yourself out of business! And don't piss-off/on Joe Consumer! The more you hide facts or use trickery to push your products the sooner Consumers will be on to you and start to avoid you on future products.
Will be looking forward to more INQ EXPOSE'
Anyone who is childish enough to replace S with $, is obviously either a 14yo kid or simply too stupid to be taken seriously.
Before you start handing out any business "advice", perhaps you should try growing up a bit.
charlie i gotta say, you read like a real troll. i find your articles easier to get through if i think of you as knowingly full of sh!t every time you write them
Clearly you are only three years old. If you are indeed any older, then please, remove yourself from the gene pool immediately.
So all hardware and software works with Win7, does it? Used every single piece of hardware and software out there on Win7, have you?
You are an idiot, go back to the slimy cess pool you crawled out of.
I'm amazed. You can type a whole lot of shit, while bending over and taking it from behind by your beloved Microsoft.
Does your mommy know you're using the internet again?
Obviously INQ has no standards anymore, if they let the aforementioned monkey post on here.
Charlie,
Have you ever tried Windows 7 or virtualization? Have you ever worked in IT, or do you only write about it? Microsoft gives "previews to people it knows will kiss up and not criticize the OS?" Like all the regular people it let freely download the betas?
XP Mode is for businesses; it's for running ancient apps that would cost too much money to port to a modern OS. Believe it or not, there are businesses out there that are stuck with 16-bit apps that are vital to them, XP is the last version of Windows that will run them. Or even 32-bit apps that were not designed well from a security or hardware resources perspective are stuck with XP. These are programs that you have never heard of, maybe even written specifically for one function at one company. XP Mode is for us, the IT department, so we can re-image their machines with a modern OS and they can still do their job.
Where do you get your resource usage and VM performance info from? Windows 7 has comparatively low resource usage. I have run it in a VM where the host had 1GB of memory, and the guest (Windows 7) only had 384MB. It ran fine, I could use Office 2007 in the VM just fine. VMs perform very similar to real hardware. In my experience VMs have usually out performed physical hardware because I've used them to move off of old hardware and consolidate onto new virtualized hardware.
Who needs virtualized peripherals? I sure don't. Servers and business users don't need GPUs and Razor mice. Having identical "fake" hardware is actually beneficial to portability, which is another big win for virtualization.
Oh, and don't just pass me off as a Microsoft fanboy. I'm a Linux admin, and I run Fedora on my workstation.
For freakin sakes, you can"t always live in the past, XP is lived it's longevity. If thats where you want to be then stay with XP. I have no problems with Windows Vista and I see no problems with Windows 7. Sure there is some software and hardware that will not work with the new operating systems, that's just the nature of technology. Live with it or be stick in the mud!!!
You talkin' to me? You talkin' to me? You talkin' to me?.. Then who the hell else are you talkin' to? You talkin' to me?__ Well I'm the only one here.__
That's what You thought I said when your talkin' to me. I wouldn't have bothered to carve 'Aaaauuuggghhhh'. When you'd just say it. XPM and DRM,... no wait...
The resemblance is just too uncanny: You got to basically the CPU is dead. Yes, that processor you see advertised everywhere in Iphones, that chip on my shoulder.
You want to play rough? Ok. Say hello to my little friend.
You do still [need] one chip to get faster and faster – the GPU. That GeForce chip. Yes honestly.
No I am not making this up.
Would I Lie To You?
How are you going to do it? You're going to nVidXPM2 it. Windows 7. Windows 7. I keep a box just for XP, and, Windows 7 is going to eat it!
Not Vista. Wouldn't be prudent... Not going to let ya. But Windows 7. Windows 7; it gets to eat the big XPM on ya. It's the XPM-m-m-good-man. You want XP? You want XP? Windows 7. Wucky Dumer Slevin. Oh Oh Oh. It's like a shadow MPX. Whereas you look left and they fall right; Its a they-think you-think you don't know they bang them up, and out to dry {*cough*} a shakedown switch strive to arrive in town to make a both sides and let it ride Gotta'
Would I Lie To You? Can yo hear me now? Windows 7? Sorry wrong number.
Wake up, commenters...
Charlie understands the ACTUAL point of the XP VM, and he is saying that it doesn't match the IMPLIED point.
Anybody who listens to the mainstream media has heard the XP-VM news and probably now thinks that if he gets a shiny new copy of Win7 he can flip a switch and it will work just like XP, but newer and better somehow. The way this "news" was leaked and reported is indeed somewhat dishonest, in Microsoft's favor.
If you ask 99/100 people on the street who have heard the news, they will not realize that the version of Win7 they are likely to get will not have the XP stuff, and they will not realize that the computer they have now will almost certainly not run the XP stuff (i.e., no hardware VM support and/or no 2GB RAM).
some real journalism around here for a change?! Seriously.. Bitching at Micro$oft, Nvidia, whoever is getting old. I'm no fan of theirs either but you know what, people do always have a choice. YOU DON'T LIKE IT, DON'T USE IT!! Switch to something else. I bet that you're one of these dumb users you write about. I'm pretty sure you even wrote this article on Windows machine using Office, because, uhhmm "its just so much better that the other ones" so stop bitchin.
I don't mind you bitching against MS$.
That's fun. If you don't like the articles, don't read it !.
We know what MS$ is trying to do against open source, open format and free stuff, milking $ from their OS and office suite.
I know that journalists get paid for the amount of stuff they write, but you must really be desperate to have to repeat your biased fanboi bull rants over Vista/M$/nVidia or others just to make a living...
I'm seriously starting to avoid any article with your name on it....
Well, a rant followed by a lot of rants, no more logical than original.
First:
1. Why on earth a small company that has a business application that runs on a PC with XP has to buy Windows7? They don't need a better PC for gaming, that's for sure. And if that application is too old and you have a hw failure that keeps you from using XP on another PC (ever heard about backups?), maybe it's time to upgrade application.
2. I use VBOX on a q6600 and it's much more intuitive, better speed than MS VPC. However, not only for games, but also for office applications is a very bad solution (lower speed, lower available desktop and lower user friendly). Of course as a IT geek I was amazed by using 64bit SW (Win7server+SQL2008 64) on a 32b host (XP). But that's only for fun, never for real work!
3. Linux also isn't a solution for that applications, the same reason as virtualisation.
So, the rant at it's roots is very realistic, MS releases a geek toy, IT publications and geeks were in orgasmic revelations, but average Joe (from corporate business as well) received nothing than toilet paper.
my god... I've just discovered windows fanboys are almost childish as mac ones
...but they are more numerous!
So I think "theinquirer" will cover windows a bit more, from now. ^^''
Oh come on it was a no brainer. Win2k/XP are NT5 and Vista/Win7 are NT6 so it wasn't a shock to hear
Can anyone clear two little things up?
Does Virtual PC tech require VT (or AMD-V) support to work? I though that only applied to Hyper-V, a far more powerful virtualization beastie than Virtual PC. Therefore, if the XPM is based on Virtual PC it should not require hardware virtualization technology.
Secon question is regarding device sharing - isn't the next gen of AMD virtualization technology going to support periphal sharing?
After all, a week ago you wrote (http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/877/1051877/amd-announces-core-chips):
"In addition, there are updates to AMD-V along with a new code name, AMD-P. AMD-V 2.0 brings you AMD-Vi, basically an IOMMU. This hit with the 'serverised' version of the ATI 870 series chipset along with Socket G34/C32. It may sound like small, but this should crack the door open for peripheral virtualisation, something long, long overdue.
Yes, I'm aware that actual implementation can (and probably will) take years.
Btw, I'm using Vista 64 and while it isn't the best OS ever, it gets the job done despite the quirks. Yes, it requires some memory (I'm writing this on a 4GB laptop), but it is time to shed 32 bit OSs.
I'm totally with "Ubuntu User".
MSFT is just saying they'll support WinXP longer.
MSFT is just advising people to use a VM for business.
MSFT basically starts to support the upgrade to Linux on Desktop.
Packing up an old PC with Windows into a VM is a breeze with - say - VMware Standalone Converter.
Running the VM on a new PC is on par or sometimes even faster than directly on that moldy corporate PC.
Yeah, there are differences, but - honestly - in most cases PC features are underused.
What an incredibly immature rant! Windows 7 is leagues ahead of any OS on the market right now, so much so that I can't really see why many people would need to emulate XP at all! The fact that Microsoft are making some effort to appease a very small minority can only be commendable, surely? If you really love XP and hate Windows 7 so much then just stick to native XP!!
Charlie up to his usual shit stirring by the looks of it.
This article is the biggest load of biased crap I have read in a while, XPM will work for those that need to use it, no one is going to go out and buy Windows 7 to replace XP just so they can run XPM.
You do realise that XPM is for businesses that can't get their old proprietary software to run on Windows 7, it is not meant for the average user to run normal applications on.
Having tested Windows 7 for the last few months I can say that on the whole users will not have problems running the vast majority of software.
OK, Charlie raises a good point - putting aside his "biases" for a moment. Yes, it probably will run my ancient accounting software, but in the end XPM is just plain old virtual machine. Ubuntu and Virtualbox would achieve the same results.
What I really want to say though is am I the only one who saw "faithful suckups" and read something different... ;)
Just to echo what people have said so far - this article is ridiculous - I honestly believe the author hasn't seen Windows 7 let alone used the thing. He also has no business accruement - selling different versions of your product offering additional benefits the more you spend? Oh no... Crap idea... They should just give up selling software and give it all for free
I'm all for the odd bit of slander on the INQ but simply this is garbage.
It is very clear to me were MS is going and it's going to be very good for everyone:
http://captainmarlow.blogspot.com/2009/04/windows-xp-mode-for-windows-7.html
Everyone knows you don't have the first clue about either Vista or W7 technologies, but you really didn't have to type up a blog about that fact, too.
Gone are days of the Inq being a good site for my daily industry news. Time for the favourite to be deleted :-(
I agree with "home user gamer" above in that I was initially fooled (almost) by the media into believing that a fully functional XP would be available "at the flick of a switch".
I'll stick Kubuntu and use real XP only for games.
I'll finish by saying a BIG thank you to Charlie for this info. His writing style in getting points across to ALL readers is second to none.
Charlie's advocacy for Linux has always been obvious and he's made no attempt to hide his bias. He's as annoying as all those Mac cultists back in the day when the Mac actually had some kind of edge and busniess took them seriously. Nobody likes to hear how superior you are Charlie and I suggest you knock it off, you're hurting your own credibility.
But the reason Charlie still has a job despite all his tiresome, condescending, self-righteous claims of Linux superiorty is that he makes a good point and really does understand what's going on. And he's right that the story was leaked in a way so that the ramifications of offering XP as a VM were very much glossed over. Yes, there will be limited virtualization of the devices and the GPU is a biggie. It will require extra memory. There's a lot of open questions on integration and process communication. Will we still need to apply Windows Updates to the XP OS within?
On the other hand, and completely over Charlie's head, is the need for Microsoft to offer backwards compatability and what a great way to address this problem. Linux doesn't need to worry about backwards compatability because it doesn't have zillions of multinational corporations running their mission critical software on it. But this approach solves that problem once and for all. Not perfectly no, but that's backwards compatability for you.
Soo, Vista2 uses 2GB of memory to run 'proper'
then you load XP-M, you lose access to that 2GB... and to devices on Vista...
For XP to run decently you need 2GB ideally (more if you run big apps that work in XP)
I work in an office that has on standalone PCs, scanners, label printers & normal printers... sounds like we would be screwed if we went this route...
"So it may not work brilliantly, but at least M$ are trying." - honestly, people commenting pro-MS in this thread are either stupid, naive or paid MS-fanbois. So basically we have something called "XP mode" that works selectively on chosen software and pisses all over everything else, but that's OK you know, at least MS is trying. Like designing a car that only works on Tuesdays but at least they are trying you know.
Shut up
.. but there's nothing to add.
Grow up Charlie. Learn some objectivity! See your colleague's rants re. the press, objectivity, and Apple, and then try to defend this article.
I used to love the INQ, I'm now really close to removing the feed from my reader.
Who poked a hole in Charlie's tin foil hat?
Please take a look at any of the current VMWare products they include 3DAcceleration for DX9. (Its under the Hardware Tab just click Display). As Mentioned Virtual Box has something similar as does VPc and HyperV.
TCP/IP acceleration is not needed nor is sound. As mentioned by just about everyone here. it is not for games.
You do not neet massive RAM to run Vista, I have it as a guest on a Windows 7 RC1 host in VMWare 6.5.2 using 512MB with 3D Acceleration to boot.
I also run a Mandriva Guest with 512MB RAM running at the same time. No problems running them and performing work on all three systems.
It is sad really that you accuse others of not being objective while wirting a very missleading and uninformed article. From what I am reading around the net no one (other than Micrsoft) is making any claims on performance. When the new feature is ready (it is not in RC1) and people have a chance to run it with legacy XP apps then comments can be made on it.
Anything else is uninformed FUD mongering.
Charlie, you've made me feel young again - but not in a good way.
And I quote -
"Wooo! Wooo! New Windows not as fast as old! Wooo! Wooo! Won't be migrating off of XP, I see no point! Woo! Wooo! Don't understand what I'm analysing! Wooo! Wooo! Vista is rubbish! Woo! Wooo!
You're one of those people that raged about XP being useless, then suddenly decided it was the best thing ever and never went wrong....after Vista was released. Just like everyone did with DOS/95, then 95/98, then 98/NT4, then NT4/2000, then 2000/XP, then XP/ Vista...see a pattern forming here?
And what's happened in the 15 years that this was going on? Linux as a desktop? Failed. Apple as a desktop? failed. But hey, keep slagging M$ - you guys were all correct and the rest of the world was wrong.
And to think there are still Apple/ Linux users who think that AD is pointless....catch up chaps, the world doesn't revolve around what you can do in your bedroom. The arguement over who was technically best in the OS department was over 20 years ago - the best didn't win, but that's irrelevant.
Anyway, back to Charlie in the studio....
"Wooo! Woooo! I see no reason to upgrade! Wooo, I don't understand the technology, MS must be ripping me off! Wooo! Woooooooo!"
For explaining a VM to me Charlie. I don't use them, just your average graphic designer that has loads of plugins from 1997 that won't work on Vista. Running a VM of XP in W7 seems sort of wasteful since I already have plain vanilla XP and I must admit -I have yet to see a single feature that Vista or W7 has that is any kind of improvement on XP. Perhaps all the self proclaimed technical geniuses in the comment thread can assist me and create a list these improvements.
Most of his articles are immature rantings by someone who don't understands how the real world works.
Always exagerating etc. He is the epiphany of poor journalistic skills. He is the cartoon muppet that gives all journalist a bad name and create false expectations in readers.
Just fire this idiot please.
Wow Charlie, you really seem to have rattled the cage of the MS fanbois. You should have known that they're going to viciously attack early negative reviews to prevent Win7 from becoming another Vista. You should probably hold off on these type of reviews until closer to the shipping date when you inevitably have to do some consumer justice and bring some objectivity to the MS marketing machine.
I do agree with you that it's deceitful to market the OS as XP compatible when it's in a virtual machine. With this logic, they could market Win7 as being compatible with every OS on the market. OTOH, if people still trust the word of MS at this point in their history, they deserve to be disappointed and fleeced.
Furthermore, I find it quite humorous that people are using the argument that this feature is primarily for businesses running 1998 type financial software. Are there really that many businesses out there that choose to use old, outdated and likely unsupported versions of financial software while pissing away a ton of money on a new MS operating system that likely requires new $ hardware? Oh, I suppose TARP will pay for it. No sense on using it for something useful and necessary at this point.
Oh yeah...boohoo...I don't like your negative article so I'm removing Inq from my RSS feed, bookmarks, etc. (sniffle)(blubber) ;) Don't you know you're not allowed to have an opinion that strays from the "group think".
@ 'B' have you run either?
Here is a nice list for you,
Improveb Kernel Security
Improved Firewall
Improved Graphics Support
Improved File system Search
Improved boot time protection (root Kits)
Imrpoved memory handling (in 7)
Imrpoved support for SMP and SMT
Vista and 7's 64 bit versions have significantly better support than XP -x64.
Now as a graphics designer I would think you would want some of this, considering XP has a built in flaw with multi-tasking across multiple CPU cores that reduces its performance on them (there was a patch but that was only to power management).
But by all means please stay with an older, less secure OS.
@ CB,
what is your point here? Charlie's rant was technically uninformed, he shows a lack of knowledge about how current VM software works.
It is that fact that people are taking exception too, that nad his constant rants against Vista with no supporting facts behind them.
charlie's rants attract us to bash him. he makes a living out of it, so does the INQ.
but these negative comments could be positive instead, if he just knew how to make rants somewhat relevant (which he clearly fails at)
watch some AVGN (angry video game nerd) reviews and at least learn how rants should be done - unbiased, funny and spot on. charlie just got it all wrong.
You are so very right, Charlie. The emperor has no clothes: Ballmer and his buddies' latest attempt to sell this shiny new (and EXPENSIVE) OS during a recession is a laugh, especially when you can get much better results (and much better SECURITY) running XP in a VM under Linux.
But, the sales pitch is continuing as we speak, and the unwashed masses are preparing to squeeze out the contents of their wallets into Ballmer's coffers. Whatever. But thanks, Charlie, for the reality check...no one has to invest one more dime in Microsoft software nowadays. Just invest a couple of hours into trying out Linux before forking over cash that could be better spent.
quote:
"OK, Charlie raises a good point - putting aside his "biases" for a moment. Yes, it probably will run my ancient accounting software, but in the end XPM is just plain old virtual machine. Ubuntu and Virtualbox would achieve the same results."
----------
Nobody is debating on whether XPM is better than any other Virtual Product out there.
The point is you get a FREE XP (in VHD) license with Windows 7. Half our machines at work are still Win2K (Over 800... although the machines are much newer).
As for the point about Charlie saying XPM is being "misrepresented by mainstream news to normal consumers"... what else is new?
When has mainstream news ever been accurate?
Is it Microsoft's fault that journalists are technical idiots?
~XPM ain't for gaming. People need to get that out of their thick skulls right away.
~MOST software won't even need XPM. The Compatibility Tab settings on the Executable will allow most older commercial software to run NATIVELY in 7.
~XPM is a LAST RESORT for businesses with way ancient business software or in-house proprietary software that may not run on 7.
THAT IS IT!!! Real simple... nothing more... hell it's even an OPTIONAL download in Professional Edidtion and Above.
I think what Charlie might actually be saying is that XPM is not being correctly marketed to the average-Joe user who is going to expect his or her shiny new OS to "just work", to borrow a phrase from the Mac folk.
Sure, you all know how VMs work and their limitations and i'm positive Charlie is well aware of these too. Your non-tech-savvy consumer, however, will not. All they'll see is how they can run their XP applications "seamlessly". They'll expect XP-like performance and compatibility unless it is explained to them that this is really only a fix, in-case all other methods to run their chosen program have failed.
I don't have any doubts that this is a useful feature, especially for business use. I just think the limitations of this mode should also be made clear, just to avoid the potential disappointment some users will feel when their favourite application runs at a crawl.
Windows Vista or 7 (Vista SP 2.1) does anyone buy Microsoft's drivel. The best upgrade for any Microsoft 2K, XP or Vista is install a OpenSolaris or a Linux varient and install the latest VirtualBox and run their legacy OS in a VBox while they save their cash migrating. I find it very funny when MS users think spending £100.00 on an Office suite is a "Good" deal when OpenOffice is free.
You shouldn't reveal the secret, Charlie.
Not because it upsets the MS crowd, but because Microsoft could be facing oodles of lawsuits once the punters realize the truth behind Windows7 XPM.
Kindalike 'Windows Vista Ready' - another typical half-truth out of Redmond.
Lawsuits mean discovery and that's where dirty secrets are revealed. Don't spoil the fun...
Windows users are so defensive because they paid good money for a bad OS and they know it but they keep trying to convince everybody of the virtues of Windows in the hope that the rest of the world won't notice they've been had.
So many people are missing the point. First, how much more shiny do you want the new OS to be compared to the last one? It's just an OS! All these 'features' that people allegedly 'need' are the reason it boots slowly, runs slowly, and is a resource hog. Give me the ability to uninstall that crap... now THAT'S a feature.
And all this moaning and groaning about backward-compatibility. The primary reason that OSs have compatibility issues is due to whiners that want to run legacy crap on a new machine. How many years did MB manufacturers have to keep making parallel ports, wasting strategic PCB space? (and when will PCI be gone?...) Kill off 16-bit! While you're at it, kill off 32-bit!!! Both AMD and Intel have been making 64-bit available for 10 years. The 4GB memory cap (especially the 2GB application cap) is fully laughable now, with 6 slot mainstream MBs. 64-bit drivers are easily obtained for almost all 'normal' hardware now as well.
Back to the main complaint: who cares about XP? Sure, it's great after 6 years of patches and service packs... (especially after Me) but the trolls hardly gave Vista 6 months. What's with people upgrading the OS without upgrading the hardware anyways? You can't put a racing transmission in your two-door speck and expect to go faster: it doesn't work that way. Something else is going to break. At some point you have to shift the paradigm and move beyond backward-compatibility and continuous upgrade paths if you want better performance.
dumb vista supporters can now enjoy vista 7!
it runs great, has new stuff, and has new start button.
buy it now you sad gits.
they have put there soul into its production, they have taken away drm.
You need this software!
All software get smaller, faster and never bloats, it very rare for software to get bloated.
Trust your instincts.
with the cost of downgrading to windows 7 being what it is and linux already offering virtualised xp.. why is the media even mentioning virtualisation for businesses??? linux did/does and with 3D support either through wine or through virtual 3D devices while windows 7 does what? who cares? i guess a lot of stupid users care by the number of comments on this article. vista was skipped, now 7 is skipped and microsoft is shrinking.
Hey Apple fanboy, run back to your macbook because its clear you've never ran Windows 7. Posts like this just shows us why its a bad thing for immature people to be allowed to blog. Multi-boot? VMware? You ever heard of 'em? To sum up, a complete waste of my time reading this utter dribble.
"Neither however is able to virtualize peripherals, and the prospects of doing so are fairly dim"
What - was is this I read. USB support in XP Mode
I guess that means virtualised peripherals
Well, this is the first time I think I've ever dissagreed with Charlie. Having been saturated in my professional life with virtualization for about 5 years now, the exaggerations in this article are borderline poor. I know you have an axe to grind, and Microsoft does actually deserve quite a bit of your flack. But in the end, they make pretty good products.
From the standpoint of virtualization, I would not touch MS in a production multi-server arena. However I think this kind of technology is ideal for the desktop, and the MS tech is ideally suited performance wise.
Regarding the idea of seamless integration, I guess you haven't seen the seamless application virtualization that VMware has been piddling for about 6 months there Charlie. Maybe you should pull out from under your *nix rock and delve back in again.
I think it was even Linus himself who made some comments about how impressive windows 7 was after the first beta, and how that would drive linux to work harder.
Get over it. XP is dying, drop your kludge and move on. But I guess you will start stirring the pot in 12 months about how MS is going to drop Vista soon and how you feel somehow personally wronged by that move as well.
You're a good reporter Charlie. Maybe admit that you've let your zelotry get a hold of you a bit too much this time. People might respect you for it.
Cheers,
The sad reality of Internet Journalism: Any IDIOT can generate the garbage seen above and still be employed. Here's hoping print makes a comeback.
your a sore loser your a crusty old man who is getting your ass beaten by microsoft, get over it you loser
comment above was to the loser "linux hater hater" hes a loser and got his ass beat by microsoft and he sucks dicks
I'd say you're the sore loser, getting your ass raped by Microsoft. Is it painful to sit down still?
Oh that's right, it isn't rape, as you consented to it.
Moron.
Little three year old's shouldn't be allowed on the internet without their mommy's supervision.
Oh and pray, enlighten me as to how Microsoft has 'beaten my ass.'
Grow up, you insignificant, inbred, computer illiterate moron.
Linux is shit. Period. As a OS for the desktop user it is awful and I am a Linux user. Let me start with what is good. The application repository idea is great one place for updates and automatic notification of updates. The worst thing is everything else. It is so flawed I don't know where to begin. The apps are mediocre at best, and the decent ones have been ported to Windows.
People need food and shelter and FOSS basically is a system that says a developers time is free. Why as a developer would you work for free? It has become obvious to me the more I use Linux and FOSS that developers give up after awhile when they realize they can't feed their families. Most of the projects are half completed and junky.
Back to Win 7... It is leagues better than Linux. Ubuntu is the peoples choice for a Linux desktop and the software packages available are mostly junk. The Windows 7 interface feels like a modern operating system and it lets you run the programs that matter. The programs that put food on the table.
I gave this article the benefit of a doubt, but several paragraphs into it realized that The Inquirer allowed to publish a ridiculous pile of crap from a borderline retarded idiot. All opinions matter and are welcome, but this rant's place is at some fanboys' blog, certainly not at The Inq. I am not a frequent Inq reader, but a long standing one (who has the time!). This kind of rants will turn many serious people away from taking The Inq seriously. What a shame...
Clearly you havent,
yes it is a simple VM, yes its not as functional as vmware,
YES you can however use USB devices on it, printers, cameras, USB drivers, IRDA adaptors, many things will work.
It does have a handy usage, for instance, as far as the user is concerned once a program has been installed to the VM you get a nice little icon in your start menu, clicking on this within the Host OS runs the program like its natively installed there. to the end user you do not see the VM running it.
There is a couple of bugs, if you use extended destops the VM program centres on the center of the two monitors, not a biggy but its a bug none the less.
I am very intrested if it will use hardware as well in the VM app, forinstance i have a IDRA adaptor that wont install on my 64bit OS but installed fine on my 32bit XP VM, the app i am using needs this IRDA device, so im wondering how much work it would take to have the VM app use the hardware too....
anyhow thats a little project for me, the point is your talking rubbish, there is a great need for this, and the most important one of all is that you can have any app running the way you want it and as far as the user is concerened it just works, no fuss.
OK, you've missed the point entirely of the XP VM AND come over as a biased winging *&^!
Normally I like the INQ for it's "insult everything" approach but this is just insane! Yes, Vista is broken. Yes, MS FUDed it in to oblivion but W7 is so much better and at least they've listened...
Pah, you're not going to listen anyways. Bring back Workbench 3.1 I say!
Will be the newest Charlie Denobrainaman's newest article.
He can't get any Nvidia product to work. He can't get Vista to work.
Nick Farrell and Denobrainaman need to collaborate and gather all their talents into one article.
Apple Macintosh with Nvidia graphics running broken Vista.
It could lead to all kinds of fruity toymaker puns and Charlie scanning for failures and ranting about how evil Nvidia are.
Don't know why most of you are upset however, the inquirer is a joke. The technical reviews are 4 paragraphs long and are rated on beers for christ sake!
Wow, this article is even more of a disaster than the Windows Vista Capable logo program! The author completely misses the point of Win7 and XPM. Does ANYONE really use a virtual machine to play 3D video games?!? XPM is simply a workaround tool for running legacy WinXP apps on a modern PC. As a corporate IT professional, this is a big Win-Win. Many companies, mine included, were forced to stay with WinXP and skip Vista primarly because of application compatibility problems. Win7 with XPM, as long as the integration works well enough to mostly transparent to the end-user once it has been set up properly, will take care of that. My company started a pilot program today, and if it works as well as some of the early reviews indicate, we will be planning a Win7 rollout for 2010!
After reading all the negative comments about Charlie I asked myself "How old are these people or how long have they been doing IT?". The reason why I say this is simple if you have dealt with Microsoft for 10 years or more (been doing this for 18 years now btw) and/or have dealt with end users (ie: actually fixing PC problems) you realize just how much of a bunch of money grabbing smoke and mirrors lying arses Microsoft is.
I've had many years to try to understand this clearly. Now the majority of the people who work for microsoft even the high level execs are all good people but you need to understand what a for profit company has as motivation... uh maybe profit????
Windows XP is a great system does what it is supposed to do, the code has stabilized and runs efficiently. A for profit company as mentioned is motivated by profit and it isn't just MS bosses that are greedy remember they are a publicly traded company. Investors expect a return this will force execs to make decisions that may (usually) not benefit the consumer. This is how it works people, there are many great ideas that come out of redmond but since time line and budget are concerns many ideas and technologies get swept under the rug.
Microsoft could truly innovate the industry but why give everything at once force people to buy multiple versions (ie: DX10 is the only real reason to go to Vista/Win7). I'm not sure that many have been through as many migrations as I have but if you have and actually seen what it costs you then realize that Billions upon Trillions are spend just to keep up.
Think about it this way, imagin if your company didn't have to spend a few million on migration of data and this is just the data I'm talking about, not the licenses for new versions of software. Imagin that a company saves all this money that would go towards this, maybe today there would be less companies going under cause of the financial situation at the moment and more people would stay employed. Don't know about you guys but I would like to continue making money then having a chance of loosing a job because so much money was waisted.
My current project I'm working on has spent rediculous ammounts of money on me (approx: 120K CND) just to find all the software being used in the environment. This is because this is all proprietary software and licenses have to be paid if they are over licenced. Think about it 6 figures just to find out what is being used and how many licences are needed. We haven't even started looking at migration yet. To date since I've been on this project they have already spent over 3 million dollars (CND) and we haven't even rolled out the new environment or even bought the licenses required, the hardware, the cabling, the RSA tokens, the ...
If you multiply this on a global scale it easily comes to trillions being spent just to have the priviledge to use proprietary software. Remeber this kind of spending will happen every 3 to 5 years indefinitely.
PS: Charlie you are doing a good job it's just these young'ns today haven't had to suffer enough trying to solve problems that are impossible unless the vendor chooses to fixes it. Keep it up.
"It's meant for business users. Grow up" Blah blah blah...
I found this article very informative. When I first read about XP mode, I thought, "Whoa, finally, someone at MS is actually thinking about the user base." Well, thanks to the author, I'm thinking twice about actually going out and buying W7. Anytime an article has this kind of effect on the readership, it means something. As for the readers responding with "it's for business users only", well, I suppose you don't own home computers eh? You don't see the implication of leaving out this market segment as something meaningful? Whatever. Good read. Thank you to the author.
I was using an HP DC5750 AMD based Business Desktop. Its Athlon 64 x2 3800 CPU certainly does support AMD-V, but as I discovered when trying to test Win2k8 Hyper V (Which also requires AMD-V or Intel VT) HP has it disabled, and there is NO OPTION to enable it.
A call into HP tech support revealed "The DC5750 has that disabled, if you want that feature buy a more expensive HP machine [one containing Intel VT]"
Any business that's deployed HP desktops might find they can't use XP mode on Win7 because of this same HP stupid money grab.
Man, you guys at The Enquirer are retarded. Are you paying 16 year olds to write articles for you now? I've never read such crap in my life. As if XPM is designed to run games. Sheesh. And Win7 runs really well on most computers, much better than Vista. To call it Vista SP2.1 is retarded. This site is retarded. I want those 3 minutes of my life back.
here is a video of how bad linux sucks AT A LINUX CONFERENCE
http://lunduke.com/?p=429
you are old crusty fossils who like your computers to be just as old and crappy as you are
@the virgin that replied to me
you call me computer illiterate but you use linux! you are a computer NOOB
my granny is more computer literate than you and she is still on win 98" not even second edition! hahahahaha
get a life!!!
What's the matter moron? Are you too poorly educated to recognize a political statement couched in "net speak"?
It has nothing to do with maturity, or lack thereof, it has everything to do with making a statement concerning MSFT (do you know what that is?)as a corporation who has as a mission to: grow the company, increase the bottom line and increase stockholder equity. Sorry about all the big words there.
If you're going to criticize the use of M$, then you need to play fair and do the same for "pwned", "fanboi" and all the other netspeak pseudo words.
...end...
Lord this is too easy.
Linux Hater, your most recent comments just show how much of a retard you really are.
Oh and for the record, I've used Linux in the past. I'm currently using Windows Vista at this point in time.
You're calling me a computer noob, when you don't appear to understand the first thing about computers. You're such an idiot. I've had experience more than half a dozen different Operating Systems. Sounds like you've only ever had experience with one, and even then, you don't appear to have learned much from it.
You claim how much you hate Linux, and I seriously doubt you've even tried it.
Try reaching puberty first, then come back and talk.
Seriously INQ it's time to start screening what retards can post. Then perhaps the ignorance and stupidity of Linux Hater might not be forced onto the rest of us.
Virtual PC runs fine on any pc.
It doesn't require much ram, and really isnt crazy on resources.
I am sure they can make a more of a bridge program so the app shows up on the ui, but runs in the virtual pc. Stuff is done like that under linux.
So what the point of bitching?
Why oh why oh why would someone need to run a game from the year 2000 on a pc?
New games come out all the time. People get bored of them and move on.
Oviously microsoft is having problems with the buisness community so they are adding this. As buisness need those apps.
it is not a scam.
it does what it can do. virtualbox from sun / innotek can do a little more. use that if you want performance.
if you dont like it / cant do what you want it t do, there's a slew of options:
- keep XP on a separate partition with the apps that need it. ( our old games, my dentist's x-ray device drivers, my Sattelite TV pci-card, etcetera )
- then, decide if you want
- vista
- win 7
- linux with your old windows games that with a bit of luck and crossover / winedoors or somesuch and a little patience now and then just work out of the box as usual.
or all of the above. what's the problem when your disk is 250GB big for 60 quid or so....?
but please, stop calling each other idiots.
makes you people look stupid.
cheers,
rg
My plan is to build a new system by this fall. It's going to be Linux in and out.
...if you're going to write an ill-informed rant, at least you could write it WELL. Get thee to a copy editor, Charlie. Seriously.
Yeah, umm, I don't want XP. I haven't wanted it since it became a virus-ridden pile of crap half a decade ago.
I don't want to play games in DX9 anymore, either. If I wanted to play old games, I'd buy a Mac.
Nice try, though.
The biggest scam is how Charlie conned his employer into thinking he knows what is talking about. Funny they still give you a paycheck for posting craps, rants, misinformation.
Charlie basicly talks uses misinformation but get 1 in 100 right. Like if you throw shit at a target (company), 1 of them is bound to hit.
anybody remember "classic" mode for mac osx? same kind of thing, only its Microsoft doing it, so don't expect it to work nearly as well, and classic wasn't perfect to begin with.
You clearly don't understand WTF you are talking about Charlie. Your complete lack of understanding and obvious hatred show through completely. Get over yourself and learn something. You are just making yourself and The Inquirer look worse all the time. Pathetic.
I thought the denizens of the World of Warcraft official forums were paranoid, disliking of criticism of their game supplier and intolerant of anyone doing such a foul and heinous thing.
I also thought that the infamous (among WoW players anyway) Barrens chat was full of rancid hot air masquerading as chatter.
Damn, but that constant, near unbroken stream of vitriolic abuse up there directed at Charlie's article made me realize I was wrong, I would say I considered the more intemperate comments childish but that would elevate them to a level they really do not deserve. Even calling them the work of fanboys would be too high a praise.
Do any of the people calling for Charlie's head on a stick, or in the case of the less rabid commentators actually work for Microsoft?
Just a thought.
Tam
My apologies. The comment,
"Do any of the people calling for Charlie's head on a stick, or in the case of the less rabid commentators actually work for Microsoft?"
should have read as follows:
"Do any of the people calling for Charlie's
head on a stick, or in the case of the less rabid commentators his mere sacking from his job at the Inquirer, actually work for Microsoft?"
Thanks for listening and good night.
Tam
I think Microsoft will eventually incorporate something like this into the virtual PC... maybe not for xp mode
============================
NVIDIA SLI Multi-OS Empowers World’s First Virtualized Graphics Workstation
http://www.nvidia.com/object/io_1238408514209.html
This is the last time i will visit this site. the fact that you are pointing this view of yours on XPM (Virtual PC) just shows you don't have a FUCKING Clue as to how things work.
The main difference, and the ONLY thing that makes XPM viable is the ability to Publish Virtual Applications to the Host OS. AFAIK this has not been done before and will make a HUGE stable in Virtualization for the End user.
the fact that you omitted this from your article just shows how stupid and misunderstanding you are.
really, i think you should never write another review/opinion article again. its people like you that give good things the bad name.
now GTFO and never post again.
Uh...mac user no doubt.
INstalled and running 64 bit win 7 rc1 with the Vitual xp mode on a simple AMD 2650E single core CPU with 5 gig.
For a scam it sure as hell works like it should and is VERY simple, even a caveman could use it....
Now on topic it is here about XPM many people expected a solution for the older applications and failures made by Vista on programs.
so for a small portion of programs the solution is this VirtualMachine of XP.
But for games its same old story many big problems with them on Win 7.
I have been testing some problem games which crash vista and guess what ....
They crash win7 rc1 also wanna test it go play cabal or L2 or similar programs and see it crash.
And yes games in a VM is still not possible.
So now the issue why should i buy win7 if its not able to run the games i want.
Its no use to buy something when i have to keep the old OS for running things.
Yes it looks ok and yes the graphical fixes are nice, the special hyperlinks make it a handy os, but still for me is not the solution.
So for some who don't play much its gonna rock a boat and those people will be happy because win 7 runs smoother then the old vista.
Now many say it has many changes .. but most of it are just simple visual ones ... Again.
As long as M$ is not gonna fix these more then 2 1/2 year old problems with games its not gonna be my next OS.
The fact that that 80-90% of the market still runs Windows XP and they decided to not provide backward compatibility to XP made me totally switch to Linux instead of upgrading to Windows 7.
With VMWare you can run XP under Linux with 3D acceleration. So I get to play all my games, run Photoshop and have Linux which is a much better OS that is upgraded every 6 months(FREE) and way more secure than Windows ever was.
I just couldn't see spending $250 for home pro only to wait at least a year or two to play some DirectX11 game. The rest of the features aren't really that impressive over XP.
Check out Mint Linux based on Ubuntu, totally awesome.
1. Chuck is full of himself. He thrives on writing crap like this. In fact in reading his posts you get a sense of "deja vu" every time.
2. Those that found this article helpful should really evaluate where they get their news and/or how they jump to conclusions on their own. When I read about the XP virtual mode the first thing that came into my mind was to look for its limitations and the target market. If you guys assume it will or should do your dishes, that is your own problem. Do research or stay ignorant and don't complain.
3. Linux fans, get something into your heads. We can use Linux all we want, but those guys that actually found this article helpful, they can't. There is no way. That is Linux biggest downfall.
4. Charlie, you seem to have a drive I'll give you that much. However, just like all the fluff out there, there is only so much you can put out before people will tire of it. Start looking for a new angle before you become redundant. If you don't even those that still somehow believe in the tripe you write will start seeing the holes, not even sprinkling your articles with half-truths will help.
this man is spilling lies... seriously... microsoft have made their Virtual PC environment so much better since the last time i had used it... you can emulate the USB periferals and DVD drives into the virtual environment...
if you really hate Windows as much as this Charlie chap seems to then don't use it and shut up...
Windows has it flaws admitedly but its the best tool for what i do and the best for what i want to do... therefore i actually love it... and windows 7 is making it seem oh so much better...
Well I've just gone to all the trouble of installing the VM so that I can see if my unsupported scanner works. Everything seemed to go smoothly, XP detected the scanner and allowed me to install drivers but when it came time to actually scan you can guess what happened. NOTHING. So much for MS saying XPM will allow you to use old hardware.
I also found that the entire VM experience is INSANELY slow. Software takes forever to install and just as slow to load. A quick benchmark shows its probaby due the VM not being properly multithreaded (XP only sees and uses one core).
I was initially very excited by Win7...but I been using full time for a week now and im about ready to reinstall XP :(
What’s wrong with being biased with Microsoft? They are the guys who monopolized computers, then begin to charge hundreds for their OSes. Considering how Linux is actually free, well, you can pretty much see.
Also, they don’t seem to understand consumers when they made Vista. The time I got my desktop, XP support was discontinued, so it was in Vista. Hilariously, the computer only meets the minimum requirement. You should have seen me screaming at my computer each time it smiles at me with a blue screen. Only two years later, did computers get sufficiently powerful to run Vista, while cheap enough for me to buy.
But that is missing the point. I used Windows for my life, and I have to say, I really love it, especially Vista. But it always irks me. The millions they put into their projects, the billions they get from us with their monopoly, why can’t they integrate backward compatibility smoothly? It is almost hilarious that I have to search the internet to learn how to run programs at XP compatibility, then get aggravated when my computer claims it does not want to run my legacy game. (I still can’t get Vista to run Dungeon Keeper.)
Now, they wanted to make 7 run XP, then run rusty old financial programs? And have that emulation eat up all the processor power? Maybe they are expecting Enterprise users nowadays to run quad core computers. Like them.
Now is the funny part. Are Windows crew Rube Goldbergians? (Basically, it means to do pointless steps to get to your goals. There are many videos of Goldberg machines.) Why do something as dramatic as emulating an OS to run rusty old financial programs. I always thought emulating OS to run programs are more for people who wanted to run a legacy, forgotten program their OS won’t run, and could not find patches to make their OS run it. But to emulate XP to run rusty old financial programs, which are probably simple as well as old... Srsly?
Then, considering the amount of hate comments you are throwing at the author, are you guys sent by Microsoft? Admit it. Microsoft deserved these biases. They are unethical at times, playing at how we are unsure of what is unethical since they are always pioneers in their field. They increase the price of their OS one after another, even though we aren’t earning anymore. They pretty much monopolized computer, like some evil overlord. They are trying to monopolize gaming with their Xbox. They are planning to monopolize internet, buying like some crazed monster on a spending spree.
I've been exploring different VM scenarios for the past 6 months. And I can come to one definite conclusion; Vista SP2 (W7) doesn't cope well at all with VM environments.
The kernal in W7 is the same as vista. So yeah, the author of this article has it right.
M$ bloat ware Vista/W7 is garbage from a clean OS standpoint. XP, runs circles around either of those OSs when it comes to virtualization.
Now that Ubuntu is maturing rather nicely, I'll be running it as a primary OS once the LTS 9x or 10x builds hit the scene. Then VM XP for any win apps I may need.
M$ is cutting its own head off by force feeding the masses Vista SP2 (W7 naked).
Charlie, your rant SO misses the point, and I say that as someone that runs Windows 7 RC on a daily basis (64-bit, at that) and that also runs virtualization software:
1. First off, I have zero need to run games in a VM, as all the games that I won run just fine in Windows 7, despite my having just a single gigabyte of RAM. (You read that right.)
2. I use virtualization software (Microsoft's own Virtual PC 2007, which is still available, and still runs in Windows 7, and is still free; along with xVM VirtualBox) to create VMs as training sandboxes/development testbeds. To get ANY sort of decent performance in a virtual machine, you can devote no more than HALF the host's RAM *total* to all running VMs; the more VMs you wish to run at once, the more RAM you need installed on the host. (That's not me spewing anything; that's straight from the xVM documentation, which is concurred in by the documentation for VPC, MED-V, and VMware.)
3. What game did you try to run that refused to work *at all* in Windows 7, even with the Compability Mode wizard (or the Compatibility customization options)? Unless the game was VERY badly written, or used a 16-bit installer (remember, I'm running 64-bit Windows 7, which, like previous 64-bit flavors of Windows, loathes 16-bit installers), it will usually install/run *just fine* in Windows 7. (In fact, Microsoft's own Fury3, a game that I would have expected 7 to choke on, as it goes back to Windows 95/Windows 3.1/Windows NT, also installs and runs just fine in 7.)
I don't mind rants per se; however, I DO mind rants without proper research beforehand.
This site goes down the tubes more and more everyday. All this is is a bunch of ranting, the likes you'd find in the back room of a Geek Squad with a bunch of pseudo-techs spouting garbage they read off the intarwebs. Show some test results to back up your claims or stop wasting bandwidth.
I don't even know where to start...this is one of the most uninformed and ridiculous articles I have ever read in my life! And how about you make a Linux GUI that is half as stable and user friendly as any windows OS since 95 and maybe just maybe the world of idiots that exist on PC's today might smarten up just enough to use it. But how can you develop something like that without a budget? You can't! Look at what Novell is doing to SUSE...http://www.novell.com/products/desktop/eval.html. I'd hardly call an Evaluation copy free! So if I'm a consumer and I'm going to pay for something, I'd rather pay for something that I'm familiar and comfortable with.
why am I even looking a site called the "the inquirer" in this first place. dude, relax, if you want the full XP experience to game with, uh, maybe install XP? Win7 XP Mode was not designed for that. It's designed for people who want to run Win7 but have a legacy app or two that needs XP. Halo 3 is not a legacy app. Get a grip, there is no issue here, MS hater.
It is a scam in the concept that it is almost the same than Vmware unity mode but it is self called XP mode.
The name himself is misleading, it is not a XP mode, instead is a virtual machine running at background and eating resource because their sole existence.
Business speaking, the best way to be compatible with XP is to stick with the real XP, instead to jump over a "emulated" xp instead of a bloated OS (yes, is less bloated that Vista but 7 is still bloated).
I find this interesting.
I'm in corporate IT - consulting across several large and small companies. I know NO-ONE who likes Vista. Not one person. Some use it, quite a few are forced to use it because it's a job requirement. Many can point out one or two good features they would miss, but all admit that given the opportunity they would go back to XP.
This article - from a known Linux supporter - has a huge proportion of pro-Vista comments. That seems weird. People who read pro-linux columnists, tend to be pro-linux themselves. But there are so MANY vocal Vista supporters.
I wonder how many people M$ pays to go out their and post pro-Vista and Windows 7 forums and comments, so that when one Googles there are lots of people who appear to be using these OSs, and professing to like them? Do you get free software, or do you get paid actual cash. I could do with a bit of extra income - please could some of you posters point me in the right direction to register.
The slant of the comments after this article are really peculiar. I can't remember ever seeing such a one-sided rant fest where just one side flamed the author and almost nobody flamed back, unless something else was going on...
The phenomenon is most pronounced in the early postings, so in combination with the observation (just above this comment) that "NO-ONE [...] likes Vista." I conclude that this is a -- possibly organized -- takedown of an article hitting too close to home.
Looking at Microsoft's recent earnings, it becomes clear how much is riding on Windows 7. With the traditional desktop/laptop section of the market becoming smaller as PDA/Phone/Netbook devices surge forth, the Windows market is starting to shrink. Thus, if W7 is not a blazing success compared to Vista, MS is going to have to do drastic "auto industry" sized restructuring to recover.
MS is starting to realize that it has maybe one chance left to avoid such drastic resizing. No, I don't think MS will fail -- they are not as stupid as GM -- but what effectivley was a monopoly could become just another vendor. And in that case they would have to compete based on just merrit.
No wonder some people are willing to astroturf.
Having been around as a professional since 1975, I find Charlie Demerjian's articles a nice balance between deep technical detail and simplified overview. This is a hard balance to achive and there is clearly a lot of effort spent getting there. Thanks Charlie, keep up the good work!
:(
You, sir, are a complete moron. Someone should take you bloggers' license away. It would be much easier and quicker to point out the rare occasions in your article that were NOT complete uninformed BS, than it would be to try it the other way around. It's idiots like you who THINK you understand tech, and DON'T do your own research, that give so many things a bad name. Talk about FUD! You are the master!
When something new from microsoft has been release working fine from the begining?, I just remember the pain of using any new windows os , I remember downgrading to win 2000 to return to XP after a year, there is no reason to think it will be any different this time, taking care of 1 windows OS is enough , moving to W7 and using any virtualisation to run XP is dealing with twice the problems, double the risks of getting viruses, malware etc...
Is clear that most of the people that write anywhere on favour of MS products is doing it because they get something from it , even those that make a living selling pirate software are interested on microsoft doing what they do for long time.