Microsoft kills Windows Mobile honeycomb

Can someone please put a damn (useable) D-pad and some buttons on these phones?

Sony? PS3 like interface?

Let's be honest, they have implemented a better way for the User to select the Icons.

Yet, the Start and Close button is still the same as 6.1. It is still so small that a stylus is needed to hit it correctly.

@ Richard
Erm..no the start and close are not too small. I'm using a htc touch diamond with 6.1 (and have experimented with 6.5) and i've never had a problem of of hitting start or close buttons with my fat fingers (and thumb!). Only retards would have trouble hitting them.

New UI for 6.5 looks great but it needs to be quick and responsive for it to work. Brilliant OS.

@ Richard

Exactly what Jalo said over here too...

@ Jalo

How long have you had the diamond and has it broken yet? Mines had a grand total of 6 weeks downtime in about 4 months due to various problems :(

On topic... I always look forward to new OS releases. I hope they start to use a little more of the modern phones' power. 528mhz just to make things a little bit shiney? I want aero on my phone!

Had my diamond for 5 months now. Never had any hardware problems with it. Software issues only due to playing around with different ROMs but the one i'm using now is exteremly stable and extremely fast. It's the best phone i've used (along with touch HD), and Windows Mobile is great, can't understand all the complaints about it being crap. It's a more matured system and IMHO better than Symbian, and Iphone OS. Not used Andriod or RIM so can't compared with them.

Stolen from here: http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/18/editorial-ten-reasons-why-windows-mobile-6-5-misses-the-mark/5

1: It's exactly the same as Windows Mobile 6... er, 5.

That's right -- there are no underlying changes to the core system here at all (Windows CE 5). Sure, there are a few cosmetic tweaks and couple of new pieces of functionality, but underneath what amounts to a new skin, this is essentially the same Windows Mobile you've come to know and... well, you've come to know it, right? Just imagine if Palm gave Palm OS a new paint job and told you it was a new version. Sort of the same idea.

2: The interface improvements are still way behind the curve.

At a distant glance some of those updates seem pretty neat, but get up close to them. The swiping and scrolling gestures are awkward (as noted by Chris Ziegler in his hands-on), in fact, they seem to work almost opposite of what is truly intuitive and "finger friendly." The honeycomb menu is a glorified grid, a sign that Microsoft has gone out of its way to avoid a grid -- but they fail to see (or don't care) that regular grids make a lot of sense. They essentially fixed something that wasn't broken. In our video, the rep says you can tell you're at the top of the honeycomb because there's an "empty space at the top." Intuitive, no? Besides that, the big menus may be easier on the eyes, but they're just zoomed in versions of previous iterations... you're still jumping through multiple levels to get where you need to go. Microsoft touts touch in the new version, but things like the corner buttons aren't optimized for fingers at all. I was going to give Redmond points for the unlocking scheme (which lets you jump right to a specific app), but they've already been beaten there by... the Meizu M8!

3: The UI tweaks are mostly just skin deep, and third-parties have already gone way deeper.

Why didn't Microsoft just buy the UI from SPB? Look at the most recent version of SPB Mobile Shell running on a Touch Diamond.
Not only does it include truly interesting and innovative features like Facebook integration and multiple homescreen support, but it blows the doors off of 6.5 in terms of speed... and it's running on previous generation hardware. 6.5 seems to have serious trouble doing basic things like scrolling through the honeycomb menu (on the newest HTC device), while Mobile Shell introduces an almost Tegra-like 3D interface on an older phone. Where were these guys when Microsoft was reskinning? If the company had introduced this UI at MWC, we're pretty sure people would have lost their minds completely. Adding insult to injury, there are still plenty of areas in the UI that are just as dated and janky as they were in 6 and 5. Just take a look at those My Phone screens or the calendar view.

Beyond that, companies like HTC and LG who've spent a lot of time and money developing their own skins for Windows Mobile may not be so quick to part with their work -- especially when it seems markedly better. Don't be surprised if Microsoft's tweaks get left on the cutting room floor with some of the higher end devices.

4: It doesn't support capacitive touchscreens.
6.5 supports resistive touchscreens. In fact, it only officially supports resistive touchscreens. Resistive touchscreens are less accurate and more frustrating to use with full touchscreen devices, and most of the new Windows Mobile devices are built around full touchscreen navigation! It's truly a mystery as to why Microsoft refuses to implement a superior technology. We did see it installed on a TI device with a capacitive screen, but it's clear that there's no effort to make this play nice with these displays (the rep in the video seems to suggest that Microsoft didn't lend a hand here). At any rate, if the scores of inaccurate, jumpy demos we've seen are any indication, using 6.5 -- no matter how "finger friendly" they tell you it will be -- is going to be a royal pain on resistive screens without a stylus. And you know how we feel about styli.

5: It's not due out until "later this year."

Word on the street in Barcelona is that Microsoft won't be releasing 6.5 until not just "later this year," but the end of the year (Q4 2009), which means what might seem interesting and exciting now is likely going to get real stale by the time you can actually put this on your device. And that brings me to my next point...

6: You probably can't upgrade your phone.

Guess what? If you want to use 6.5 on your device... well, you're probably going to have to buy a new device. According to Microsoft, no device older than what was launched this week at MWC will be eligible for an upgrade. That's right, not your new Touch Pro, Touch Diamond, Xperia X1, Shadow, or Treo Pro (assuming you can find one anyway). Furthermore, the company is saying that no phone without a Start flag hardware button will be eligible for 6.5, so you might want to put those TG01 plans on hold for a moment (even though Toshiba claims it will be running 6.5... maybe they're going rogue).

7: No Zune integration. Not even a new Windows Media Player.
C'mon Microsoft. You're gonna boost a variation of the Zune interface for your mainscreen navigation, but you're not introducing some actual integration with your Zune service? Oh, and you're just leaving that busted old WMP on there, old skin and all? If that doesn't say 50 percent effort here, nothing does.

8: Where's the keyboard?
This year, there are a lot of keyboard-less devices hitting the market. With phones like the Touch Diamond2, Garmin M20, and the LG GM730 all headed into user's hands, anything less than a "best in class" on-screen keyboard would be a tragedy. The only 6.5 device we've seen demoed that wasn't using a third-party keyboard was TI's OMAP dev unit... and it was sporting the tiny, frustrating standard WM 6 pop-up keyboard. Not exactly heartening stuff.

10: It doesn't innovate in any way.

More than anything else, however, the main reason I'm disappointed with the new Windows Mobile doesn't have to do with features, lack of features, or UI design. It has to do with what 6.5 shows of Microsoft. Instead of stepping up to the plate and trying to do anything daring, new, or even remotely innovative, the company has shrunk from taking chances and delivered a new phone OS that's not simply more of the same, but more of the same dressed up to look like something new. While scores of their competition in the mobile space are working new angles to improve the user experience and change attitudes about what mobile devices can do, Microsoft has taken a bare minimum approach, likely satisfied that a new coat of paint and some minor flash will keep consumers coming back for more.

Unfortunately for the company, they may find reactions from even their base might not be what they're expecting. If we've learned anything over the past few years, it's that new ideas are just as -- if not more -- important than sheer market presence. Brute force may get the job done for a short time, but failure to innovate has repercussions... just ask the auto industry.

1: It's exactly the same as Windows Mobile 6... er, 5.
Yeh well it is called WinMo 6.5 NOT 7. The .5 denotes that it's going to be a evolutionary change rather than revolutionary. Although they complain that is the same core with new pieces of functionalty but hold on hasnt the Iphone OS had the same core throughout and its on version 3 with each new version only adding new pieces of funtionality rather than new core, yet the macolytes (including the wankers at engadget) suckle on everything it has to offer.
2: The interface improvements are still way behind the curve
The main point of 6.5 is to make it finger friendly. Microsoft have said this themselves. Again its 6.5 just an update (call it a service pack if you will) Wait till WinMo 7 for a brand spanking new UI throughout.
3: The UI tweaks are mostly just skin deep, and third-parties have already gone way deeper
So..this is only better for the users of the phone. They have a choice of being able to use different UI's for their phone. More freedom for the user to use what they feel more comfortable with using. On my diamond, i have HTC's Touch Flow 3D UI available but use the default WinMo UI.
4: It doesn't support capacitive touchscreens
Don't really give a shit about capacitive touchscreens. My fullscreen resistive works fine with my finger, or my stylus, or my pen or whatever else i have in my hand. Capacitive does give you multitouch but with with everyone scared to implement multitouch because of Apple's patents (except Palm) kind of a pointless argument
5: It's not due out until "later this year
I think its due out more near Q3 but meh so what, I'd rather have a properly done OS rather then a shitty rush pile of crap a la Vista. MS has learnt from it's mistakes.
6: You probably can't upgrade your phone
Thats what xda developers is for!! WinMo has the best customisation and home cooked ROM's community bar none. Even Microsoft and HTC have comeout and said xda-devs is briliant and they can't live without them even though some of the stuff they are doing is illegal!!! You can already get beta ROMs of 6.5 running on two generation old phones. It will get ported on most WinMo 6.1 devices at least either legally or illegally. Anyway this has more to do with the vendor than MS, I would guess.
7: No Zune integration. Not even a new Windows Media Player
The only valid point they make and I do agree with. Maybe getting this integrated the they way they wanted to get a proper Zune experience (similar to Iphone/Ipod) wasn't worth the effort for 6.5 but this should be high up the list for WinMo7.
8: Where's the keyboard?
Again this is more dependent on the hardware vendor. Not all WinMo devices are full touchscreen and need onscreen keyboard, so i will be up to the vendors (HTC, Samsung, SonyE, et. al) to implement this. The 6.5 i had installed on my HTC touch diamond had a proper onscreen keyboard ported from 6.1, so another bullshit point.
9: The browser is still weak
IE6 on 6 aint too bad but when you have a platform which boasts Opera and Skyfire (both with full flash support, up yours Iphone wankers) and soon Firefox who give a shit. MS doesn't stop other companies creating core apps for their mobile platfrom unlike others. *cough* apple *cough*
10: It doesn't innovate in any way
Again these dumb engadget fucks. 6 point fucking 5, so its just a service pack, not a new whole OS. It's like installing Service Pack 1 on Vista and expecting to turn into Windows 7. Hold judgement on that point until WinMo 7.

Rant over!

is it going to have a one touch Ctrl-alt-del button to save you removing the battery 10 times a day?

You can just see it now, trying to dial 999 and you have an hour glass with "please wait while service pack 899493348 is installed, do not switch off your phone", then it'll be another 10minute wait while it reboots, and by then the battery will be flat and you will have a huge data bill for all the crap it downloaded....

Why oh why would you want to put anything made by microsoft on your phone, its bad enough coming home to the crap on your desktop let alone carrying it around all day in your pocket.

Jalo: about the version - I think that's irrelevant. Winmo 6.5 doesn't bring what I would expect from mobile OS in 2009 and it doesn't matter, if the version number is 7.0, 6.5, 6.2 or 6.1+.

... i'm guessing you're yet-another-iphone-phanboi. I assume this simply because you obviously don't have a clue. Have you ever used WM? There are no automatic updates. I've had WM phones for 4 years now and could not stand to switch to anything but. Especially as the Touch Pro I have now is almost the best _phone_ i've ever had - regardless of the smartphone capability (beaten only by my Sony Ericsson T610 - what a phone :)).

Rant asside i'm currently running 6.5 build 21193 on my TP and am really impressed with the improvements to speed and usability over previous builds. Yes the first builds that were leaking were slow - not surprising when a) its beta software, b) its not designed for the phones we're running it on, and c) its far from optimized. As any of you with any sense would know - writing software for limited devices such as mobile phones takes a lot of optimisation compared to writing software for desktops - the hardware is multitudes slower. As for the comment on the start/close buttons being too small, when hitting start, I swipe down from above the screen, when i hit the close button - thats all I hit. I have fat fingers - i'm not what you'd call skinny and yet I have no issues.

What can I say other than for once MS software is better then anything else on the market from my point of view - and is the most open platform for mobile development currently in wide circulation - this may change when android goes mainstream.

"What can I say other than for once MS software is better then anything else on the market from my point of view"

--- You don't know anything... and your opinion is flawed...

oh and no I don't have nor want an iPhone...

I don't know about all phone OSs in the market, but after using Symbian for 5 years (Series 40 & 60), then switching to WinMobile, I have to say I was impressed. Yes Symbian has advantages in certain areas - its built for handhelds, while WinMobile is scaled down(I think) from windows, the sheer options and info provided by WinMobile is awesome. Both the platforms have been for long, so 3rd party app support is not a problem.

I would never go for IPhone, they had no copy/paste till now. Lol. Plus all they care is about money and controlling the user with their closed model and bricking the phones, etc. Simply horrible.

RIM could be promising, but one needs to wait a few years about application support.

With the APX-2500 around the corner, it should put the hardware in the iPhone to shame. I was really hopping to see a hybrid touch + pressure sensitive screen by now.

Years back I remember installing a NES emulator on my iPAQ, it was neat but impossible to really interact with. I was thinking that by now, it would be much better. Maybe if it wasn't for apple it would be better? It seems everyone is trying way too hard to copy Apple, when they could just do their own "better" thing. Apparently people just aren't inovative anymore.

Please enlighten me to the phone OS that is mainstream and as open as WM?

Also, feel free to enlighten me as to how I "don't know anything" and the way in which my "opinion is flawed".

"is it going to have a one touch Ctrl-alt-del button to save you removing the battery 10 times a day?" - 99flake
"You don't know anything... and your opinion is flawed..." - 99flake

I'm still using a WM6.0 Hermes and I haven't removed my battery in something like six months. ...and at least I can remove the battery. 'cough' i-phone 'cough' 99flake - you, sir, don't know what the hell you are talking about. Win Mobile can get a little sluggish at times, but thanks to the nearly endless amount of info availible on XDA-Developers and countless other sites it can be customized and streamlined like no other.

And I agree with Jalo and Phil...