Qu'ils mangent de la brioche - Queen Marie-Antoinette
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Nvidia GTX260s now losing money
NVIDIA HAS BEEN propping up volume by selling below cost for a bit now, and the latest price drop of the GTX260 is sure to bring smiles to the faces of users. The problem is that add-in-board (AIB) partners can't make money on them.
Losing money on each card is not a good business strategy, and making up for it in volume does not make things better. Mercedes could sell S-Class cars for $10, and volume would skyrocket, but that wouldn't be a very sound business strategy. For some reason, Nvidia not only thinks this is a sound strategy, it is implementing it.
The problem is the same one we told you about almost a year ago, the GT200 die is too damn big. Even with a shrink, it is still too damn big, almost twice the size of its closest rival, the ATI R770/4870. Even with poor yields and an expensive board, the card loses to its much more economical rival from ATI. This means Nvidia has to fight a price war against an an opponent with lower costs.
That brings us back to the latest news, the 260 has dropped to $169, which puts it between the price of a 512M and 1G 4870. The problem is that the GTX260 costs Nvidia partners a little less than that to make, they are going to bleed cash over this one. Hang on for a close look into the costs of building a modern GPU.
We will say up front that the numbers given here are the best case scenario. If we are given a range of prices, we will give Nvidia the benefit of the doubt and pick the cheapest. In reality, things are worse than we are stating.
Starting out with the selling price, retailers won't touch a product without a 15 per cent margin... it isn't worth their time. That means that $169 retail price boards have to sell for $144 to trade to meet that number. Lets assume packaging, shipping and add-ins like cables, dongles and software only cost $9, probably quite low all-told. That means the NV partners need to get the 260 out the door for $135 or they are losing money.
The first problem is that Nvidia sells the ASIC bundle, basically a 260 kit with chips and RAM for between $110 and $120. Lets be kind and say it is $110, and there are no shipping or handling costs. FWIW, the GT206 costs around $80-100 to manufacture based on TSMC volume wafer costs and yields someone told us about. Nvidia isn't making much on this, if anything, 14 16 x 32 high bin GDDR3 chips aren't that cheap, cost for volume purchasers is between $1.50 and $2.00 per unit. I would bet NV is losing money here on the kit, 14 x $1.50 = $21. $21 + 80 = $101, best case, they have $9 wiggle room, more likely it is a money loser, not counting MDF funding or rebates.
So that leaves the OEMs with $135 - 110 = $25 to make the boards. Board components are well over $15, this includes all the passive components, resistors, caps and bits with magic smoke in them. Think everything other than that included in the kit. That puts us at $25 - 15 = $10 left in the pot.
A 10 layer PCB is north of $10, this is easy enough to get prices on. $10 - 10 = $0. Ruh-roh Shaggy, we have a problem. Heatsink/fans are $10 or so as well, and that brings us to $0 - 10 = $-10. Whoopsy, we have a bigger problem. Add in about $5 labour that all the AIB vendors tell me it takes to make a board, and we are at $-15.
Looking at the best case numbers, Nvidia board partners are eating $15 per board, but it's likely more than that. They can either jack up the price and hope people pay... or lose money.
Nvidia doesn't like partners who buck their pricing proclamations, and people will buy from the one company which doesn't raise prices.
The OEMs are trapped. If someone steps out of line and hits the $169 price point, they will clean up on sales, and the others will lose. Bad situation, but Nvidia has a price point to hit, and they aren't the ones taking a bath. Actually they are, just not that much, and Nvidia can do no wrong. Just ask them.
Ironically, the price cut will spur sales, and everyone will lose money, except the end users. They win. At the end of the quarter, Nvidians will surely blame economic conditions: it can't be that they are putting their own ego and market share above piddling things like profit. Market share is king, and if they ever have a sane reason to back this nutjob theory up, we will bring it to you. Don't stay up waiting.
Along the same lines, remember when we said that the GTX295 was a halo part on which they lost money? How there would be very limited quantities, and once they were gone, they were gone? Calls to Newegg yesterday show that they have seven in stock, Zipzoomfly had three. That is units, not vendors. Really.
Missing in action: GTX 295
The top two etail vendors had enough stock between them that you could count to it on both hands unless you were missing a finger. Tiger Direct didn't tell us quantities, but only had two brands in stock, and you could not buy multiple units. Basically, they are done for. Don't expect any more unless Nvidia feels its losses in Q1 are not deep enough.
Remember, when we said they were limited and gone once they were gone, some spinners denied it vehemently. Nvidia will probably trickle out a few more to 'prove' this wrong, but the 295 is dead now, two month life span.
I guess you could call their honesty into question once again over this, but isn't that flogging a dead horse? µ
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@Rosserver
our an idiot!
Now that a little time has passed it sure is funny to see what an ass Charlie Demerjian turned out to be and how completely wrong he was. Like MOST video card buyers I would pay ANYTHING to avoid contact with the horrible people and worse products at ATI. Charge me whatever you want Nvidia, I will pay it!
This article is excellent and totally true.
Above, in the comments, someone stated that the consumer shouldn't care about the loses for the company. And then stated something ridiculous like, "Long live the free market system. I win."
Too bad you don't win. While you might be "winning" right now because you can buy a 260 for cheaps, you won't be winning when NVidia folds because they're dirty as fuck and wouldn't know business strategy if it smacked them in the face.
AMD will be winning then, just like the are now. The paradigm in that is that AMD winning is the last thing that an NVidia fanboy wants, but in their careless hype they drive NVidia to lose.
/fail.
ytuuio3 wrote: "My opinion is Charlie sold out and that is a FACT." Now that will require some clarification. are you saying that "it is a fact that i have an opinion on charlie" or "it is a fact because me having the opinion makes it a fact". the first one makes you an imbecile, but the second one is even more serious - you apparently delusional.
you are fully entitled to have an opinion but guess what, you are insignificant and as such the whatever opinion you might have does not make anything a FACT (especially not a fact in all caps)
for now better stick to reading the comics you like so much and stay quiet when adults talking.
Hey DM, guess you meant the emirate of Abu Dhabi which is part of the United Arab Emirates, east of Saudi Arabia. Granted, had to look that up myself, and they seem to have some sort of hereditary monarchy too, but I think from a cultural point of view, Abu Dhabi is much more oriented to the glorious western world where human rights, democracy, peace, liberty, rule of law, military force and money (and for Dubai, crude oil and glamour) rule - well ideally - and if you believe in majorities' wisdom which starts pouring when you switch on your TV. "They" own journalists like pimps prostitutes and dictators lives (worst case). Thankfully, Charlie seems not to be owned by Nvidia. Or say by Berlusconi, the mafioso getting elected president again and again, owning all things media in Italy.
Geography and all things western mafia aside, your tone at least imho leans towards some sort of fanaticism, be it only some mild form of Tourette Syndrome. Tombo's post I rather deem soft. Ok, maybe he bought me with some soft, German, solar soap. And I think you are pretty much on target with the bits about Patriot Act and Saudi Arabia, DM.
Back on topic, think Charlie helped turn me into an Nvidia fanboi. And where are you genious that coined the term NV penis? Charlie vs Hun-Son or what he's called, can't wait for the next round:-). Keep on posting guys.
Cheers
Cheers
@ Tombo Combo. What has patriotism got to do with anything? The staunchest patriots are terrorists you moron. Patriotism leads to fanaticism. Whats that brilliant piece of human rights erosion called, oh yeah, 'the Patriot Act'. Scariest political move ever by an American government. And while you applaud an american firm (AMD) for its american base it's tied quite firmly with Saudi's who - you really should be aware are pretty bad sponsors of Al Qaida (fact - do some googling and broadsheet flicking). Do you know saudi arabia is near enough a dictatorship run by dicks with oil money? It also breeds fanaticism and has a shit history on human rights. Frankly i'd denounce AMD for dealing with them. Dont bring Patriotism to a tech discussion without knowing your world history.
Im not saying that thier aint any other high tech american companies or world wide, but AMD is the only one that is founded and run in america (you can look it up), yeah the fab is in Germany. I applaud Germany for their use of solar energy and think its a great model for the rest of the world. People have the right to purchase any product they wish from anywhere they like. Pride is patriotism, wanting to see your fellow people prosper. If CPU's and GPU's were like cars we would have even better technology and competion and prices, but were stuck with A or B camp. If either A or B is taken out of the equation were left with = nvidia rebranding and double the price, or we get buy nahalem for 1,000$ or else you must buy a celeron for 500$ Thats a world I dont want to live in. Personal greed and envy or sacrifice and value, I have the right to chose whats best for me. Look where greed has us all today.
Hey Tombo Combo, cmon, r u kidding? Even if i was an Nvidia or AMD fanboi..., Nehalem looks pretty brilliant, them from Muslim land or what? Ye ye AMD Dresden outside Bavaria beer heaven, them strange accent i'd say, but well, one of very few good things about German reunification.
Like cause I'm from Bavaria and said BMW only German high-tech thing. Sure would like to have one, but it's not by far the only German car manufacturer "defending me". Cheers
The problem with nvidia is with its chipset availability. If i want to build a SLI rig im completely limited by the selection of hardware to make this possible.AMD on the other hand is taking a completely different approach by making the ATI platform accessible to the market, that anyone can build a crossfire rig with the best selection of motherboards. Why should i have to buy crappy hardware to just use there SLI technology. This is the knife AMD is serving Nvidia. Current nfoce products can hardly compete unless your just a fanboy. AMD=Value, AMD is the only American based hi-tech company, show some pride. AMD is on the consumers side defending you. Who else is doing that?
firmly in AMD's pocket (the one with the money.)
Retailers won't touch something without a 15% margin?!?! Thats BS, coming from a guy who once owned a mom and pop computer box some knock-down drag out prices included CPUs, Video Cards, and Memory. These products were almost always sold AT COST and Newegg was still beating me by $5-10 w/ free shipping.
Retailers won't touch something without 15% margin?!?!
Thats BS, coming from a guy who owned a mom and pop computer box some stuff were price was knock-down drag out CPUs, Video Cards, and Memory was almost always sold AT COST and Newegg was still beating my by 5-10 w/ free shipping.
Like I said...clearing inventory for something new.
"Nvidia’s GTX275 has GTX295 chip
Written by Fuad Abazovic
Thursday, 12 March 2009 09:50
Just one chip
Nvidia needs a card that is faster than GTX 260 and that won’t beat GTX 285 and the answer is as you can imagine GTX 275.
Our sources were told that GTX 275 will have the chip similar to the one you see at GTX 295 dual card, but of course just one of them. The GTX295 chip is mixture between GTX260 and 285 chips and this GT200 55nm has 240 Shaders, and we can only hope that it will have the same number of them for GTX275.
The good news is the price of the card that should end up at $249 suggested etail price and the card should be out in early April.
To the people making statements that there is nothing wrong with Nvidia going into debt as AMD is in even more debt. Although both companies are going into debt, there is one big difference between the two, but first;
Cash is the most unproductive asset to have, relatively speaking you make almost no money from it due to interest. This cash should be invested into expanding your business, this is what AMD did when purchasing ATI. Basing how well a company is doing off of their cash levels is pointless.
Most businesses will also operate in debt, the interest on this debt is tax deductible and as long as that debt has been used to increase your assets then it is fine.
This is where the difference between AMD and Nvidia lies. AMD are in debt because they invested a large amount of money increasing their assets by purchasing ATI. Nvidia are not in debt because they are increasing their assets, they are in debt from high rates of chip failures, lawsuits against them because of this and loss in market share. This debt although less than AMD's in a monetary sense is in fact far worse.
Wow, read the title and I knew which a**hole of a so called "journalist" wrote it.
Stop the bullshit before it's too late.
(and before someone screams fanboy: I got both a 4870 1G and a 280GTX in my rigs, so stfu).
If you support Charlie's opinion and bias remarks as fact.. Then all the comments here by other people is fact too... My opinion is Charlie sold out and that is a FACT. He is fun to read just like comics.
Hi salesman Charlie,
Does AMD pay you well?
AMT is running this business with 5B debt and keep on losing hundreds of M more every quarter.
According to your calculation, AMD's cards make tiny bit of money, if not lose money too.
So here comes my question: Does AMD covers your dental insurance?
@John
@Thierry
@Bounty
@Sentinel
@Teldar
Do you realize the article was about the GTX 260 price drop and not the GTX 295??
The 260 is vintage May 2008, the price started at $449 and people actually bought them. The price drop is via a $20 to $30 depending on the brand that is available. New Egg has 18 different cards that use the 260.
Nvidia has 3 cards that are better than the 260 available so it is an old card.
http://www.nvidia.com/object/graphics_cards_buy_now.html
What is better, to write down 100% of the cost of leftover inventory or clear it out for whatever is coming up in the next few months?
Aside from that, Geoff is right...this is total speculation, every number except the $169 is a made up number. $9 for "cables, dongles and software". More like $3. Go to Alibaba.com. These manufacturers buy thousands of these items. Driver are provided by Nvidia.
Like I said before. The card is already paid for. They're worth $0 if they sit on the shelves while newer tech is released.
@Sentinal...
"I'd bet on Charlie to run half the companies that have so called "Masters of the Universe" running them better."
Right...are you on the board of anything? If so, why don't you recommend him for the CEO position? (and yes, I AM the CEO of my engineering firm).
I wouldn't bet on Charlie to run anything.
http://www.theinquirer.net/img/11862/charliemeetsNvidia.JPG
sorry charlie, thats just my opinion.
I'm quite sure at this point its just trendy to hate on charlie. I love his articles, however true you believe they are. They're almost entertainment to read, considering how many comments they provoke. Don't think for one minute that your "credibility" and "charlie is a complete idiot" statements are affecting him, he's sittin back in his chair watching the hits rise...
BTW, hats off to the guy that came up with penis NV. That's genuinely funny. I'm sure Charlie actually appreciates that one.
Look, @ Zii again. Are you seeing that you're argument is completely irrelevant to this topic? I'll say, I'm sorry if I went to far and called names (once again, couldn't help myself), but what you're saying is beside the point. Charlie is a journalist. Journalists write about things- both negative and postitive. What you're suggesting undermines the whole point of journalism. So people can write whatever they want about corporations (or anything) as long as it's not negative? And by your reasoning, negative means the topic or person, or collective they're writing about, is more successful than them. That's what you're saying, right? I'm not sure I need to point out the average salary/success of a journalist compared to, say, Donald Trump. He's had negative stuff written about him. Seriously. You should write a letter to every publication in the world and make sure they're aware of what they're printing and how wrong they are for doing it. You make a really good point.
@whatf- Are you serious? Is that what you've gotten from what I said?
I was going to get the GTX 260 but opted for the die shrunk GTX 285 that uses less power for not much more cash. The card is a monster and besides being quiet it is the fastest single chip card out there right now.
It goes well with my Q9650 and getting over 100FPS out Farcry 2
Harping on about Jen-Hsun's degrees and Charlie's looks and assumed non-existant degrees is just so funny. Even better would be a dick comparison contest between the two. Go find some info on that matter. Do some research which one is happier and more beneficial to society. Then correlate this to dick sizes.
Or compare Bernard Madoff with George W. Bush on the basis of their degrees and how it helped them benefit the world. Or even comparing Charlie's wit to George's. Yea different academical career but ahh sorry folks this is getting silly. Thanks Charlie for not conforming to the brain-washed, politically correct masses. On a side-note, bought some Nvidia stock recently, Charlie?
Said it before, but obviously none of you script kiddies can read, so:
If Charlie were actually not correct in his articles, don't you think NVidia's legal department would do something?
That NVidia has not disputed Charlie's articles must mean there is something to them.
And Charlie doesn't make this stuff up during his sleep, he spends a lot of effort digging out the facts, double and triple checking, getting the facts right, because he knows that NVidia's legal department is ready to pounce if he doesn't have his facts straight.
I only wish the rest of you worked anywhere as hard as Charlie.
Thanks again for the free speech Charlie.
I enjoy reading the inq and your opinions, keep it up.
Jez
Hi Charlie,
interesting article. Just one questions: I work for a components part manufacturer, and as part of our business model we sell the items to vendors who produce the final model and then wholesale them. So it's a fairly similar process to what happens between Nv and its board partners.
Now, when we want to reduce the price of a product, we push down the cost of the main component to the vendor, who then passes on this cost saving to the wholesaler, retailer and customer. This also often occurs for stock which has already was assembled or sold into the channel.
In essence, wouldn't that same logic also apply for Nvidia? If their assembly kit of chip, and memory costs $135 originally, then a $15 price drop by Nvidia would mean that thay adjust the price of the kit. Depending on how much stock is already available, they'd use credit notes for their main channel partners to reduce their costs. I cannot really see how any of the board partners lose out, unless Nv forces them to either share in or completely absorb the price drop, which sounds fairly unlikely.
Maybe you can take another look at that for your next investigation?
Apart from that, I agree that the 295 is all but gone. UK retailers sell them for up to 25% above introductory price. Nonetheless, it is an awesome card.
... that if Charlie was wrong, someone would have come up with some alternative numbers by now to show it, rather than just mouthing off?
No, really what is wrong with charlie explaining things he finds interesting about a tech company on a tech site? Am I missing something here? Isn't this what an author on a tech site is supposed to do? Now don't get me wrong I use both NV and ATI cards and the former is now at a great price point for consumers, so go ahead get one or get yourself a nice performing SLI-rig. On the business side however I like to know how a company fares through the recent storm and this move seems stupid, I thought of similar calculations as Charlie did and the only conclusion you have from it is, buy its products but back off from its shares. And then again, wait until the price for its shares hits rock bottom and then buy when new products get announced (assuming they survive their tactics).
great read, thanks Charlie!
It is pretty obvious that the supply is extremely limited. I find them also very expensive, even if Nvidia is losing money. What would concern me most is not the hardware, but the software. Every little variation of the hardware means additional costs for software development, including testing. For how long is Nvidia going to support this enterprise? Six months? And then we buy new hardware and software?
Besides, these cards are loud. That does not matter when I play a game. But why do they have to produce so much noise while they are only being used for simple desktop applications (not games)? Most graphics adapters need no fan at all.
Another poster from a recent nVidia article pointed out that Charlie suffers from "Penis NV".
Totally agree!
Charlie change your name if you want people to believe in your crap.
Ahh keep it coming Charlie Wall street are listening!
Yesterday:
NVDA 9.85 +0.55 (5.91%) 5.29B
AMD 2.40 +0.09 (3.90%) 1.46B
The prophet Charlie foretold the early demise of the graphics chip on my laptop, when the HP soothsayers *sayed* otherwise. The magic smoke spouted forth, and all was darkness.
The prophet Charlie has also foretold many other Nvidian catastrophes when the the Nvidians themselves told us happy and reassuring tales.
The prophet Charlie is my hero.
So a guy yelling FIRE all the time get a right once, so now is he(Charlie) is credible for life? Give us some of what you have been smoking....
I'm sorry, where in the world we live in does it say that after having ticked off a certain number of accomplishments can you not be slandered. Ever.
Yes, Charlie has a massive gripe with nVidia. Noone can argue that, but it doesn't make him any less correct. If you tone down what Charlie is saying by 20%, he pretty much nails what's going on. Are you calling him incorrect for the whole GPU over heating issue?
My dig at you was because your comment came across (to me) as one of the biggest fanboi statements I've ever seen on one of Charlie's articles. I mean, c'mon, that article doesn't even mention Jen and you've used him as a point to make against Charlie. I'm sure you're a perfectly sweet, nice guy, but your comment was funny as hell and I couldn't help myself.
My accomplishments are neither here nor there, but it doesn't mean I can't call someone a d**k because they're more successful. And it's Timboj with a 'j', d**k.
Wow, when you add up a bunch of made-up numbers, it comes to some made up total. You could have knocked me down with a feather.
Actually Charlie wasn't the first hack to go head to head with NVidia after they didn't like one his articles.
Check Sander Sassen ... NVidia snubbed him and refused to send him any further test cards after he queried some benchmarks once. Was a few years ago.
NVidia are PR Spin doctors.
I believe they went into GPU design and construstion after a successful campaign of selling ice to the eskimos.
The original ice to the eskimo campaign was put into place by Intel who (in exchange of the ice purchase) offered rebates of heating oil, rifle cartridges, and second wives ... and in exchange the buyer signed an exclusive NDA where they promised not to buy any AMD Ice (the other ice merchant).
These rebates were expanded if the buyer was able to prove they were getting their mates to buy the same ice.
Currently both the Intel ice and the AMD ice melt fast ... but the Intel ice tastes a bit better.
AMD is working on a new flavour of ice ...
but it sold the ice factory to the guy who accidently burnt it down a couple of times ... more on that story later.
Riiiight Timboy. I'd say you're as confused as always to recognize facts. Nowhere did I mention anything fictitious... "save kittens", "laser arms..." I guess it's easier to live in a dream-world.
One more time for you, maybe you get it... surely not that difficult. 1) Name Charlie's accomplishments, 2) then name Jen-Hsun's accomplishments. Don't want to laugh at you man, feel kinda sorry how you position yourself to judge successful people w/o recognizing their accomplishments. I am sure your achievements are much greater... so why don't you enlighten us on what the greatness is Timmyboy.
Gotta love critics like that.
If the price of the product is so low that the makers are losing money, we are surely winning, right?
In some ways we are winning, in other ways its a shame there Nvidia haven't brought out some new tech.
Their cards are based on relatively old designs, so I can only guess that they must be near launch of some new products. Could this be true for Nvidia?
Is ATI near launch of some new tech? I'd like a heads up on whats coming.
Personally I'm pissed that I bought a 9800gtx+ 3 weeks ago, then Nvidia launch the gts250. GTS250 is same as 9800GTX+ except it's cheaper, has 1GB ram, is shorter pcb, and needs only 1 x 6 pin PCI-E power connector!
I have SLI mobo, mobo's should be able to work with either crossfire or sli without costing over £150 for a mobo.
Holly shit this never ends.
What really happened Charlie? Did you get ganged raped by NVIDIA board?
C2D E6600 $229, C2Q Q6600 $279
Buy one get one for $70. Now that's sound. Or something.
Charlie, Charlie, Charlie, when are you ever going to write a factual, non-biased article? Oh, that's right...NEVER!!
As many of the readers have already posted responses to your article you would have already found out that in fact the GTX295 is in stock and being sold as fast as they come back into stock.
Get your facts straight and stop being an ignorant hater of nVidia. You want to surprise people and impress them at the same time? How about writing an article about how screwed up ATI is with their products? Hardware that never performs to its "paper" expectations. And what about those God-awful ATI Catalyst drivers? NUFF SAID!
@Zii- Jen-Hsun is super awesome. He saves kittens, has laser on his arms and kite surfs. He should become president of the world... and a DJ.
Thanks for the laugh, guy. His 'utter success' obviously peaked with his abortion of a management situation that was 2008. Well done.
Let's see:
- Jen-Hsun has been an utterly successful leader of nVidia since the beginning (1993). nVidia is a multi-billion dollar graphics card company. Jen-Hsun has a BSEE / MSEE degree. Also numerous awards.
- Charlie... is this:
http://www.theinquirer.net/img/11862/charliemeetsNvidia.JPG
Wasn't there a news article reporting how ATI vendors did not want to drop the price or reluctant to on the 4800's?
This one sorta takes that and applies it to Nvidia and its price drop situation.
http://www.firingsquad.com/news/newsarticle.asp?searchid=21398
After reading about "ATI board partners unhappy with Radeon 4870 price cuts" yesterday, I knew Charlie was due for another one of his article. What a coincidence or is it?
To be entirely fair, remove Charlie's seething personality disorder and see what he's saying. Essentially, the 295 was/is exceptionally expensive to produce. You never make a large number of such a product. In terms of heat, power, noise and performance the 295 is a better card than the cheaper 4870X2. So, my card is the Bugatti Veyron of GFX cards. Also, the 55nm 260's tend to win out in comparisons to the 4870's 1Gb version (again, acoustics, heat etc). By selling at a loss Nvidia are trying to squeeze ATI's market share by offering a superior product at the same price. This is simply standard aggressive and overbearing marketing. It's that simple. And they can afford to do it (just like VW sell the Veyron at a staggering loss for each car).
Charlie wakes up this morning, checks fudzilla website.. see this news about gtx260 price cut and goes like "naaaaa!! this can't beeee!!!!" :)
Even before clicking it I knew this was a Charlie article. If it sounds bad and it's about NVidia, its Charlie! The guy is incapable of bitching about something else.
I guess this time around he's upset that NVidia matched the recent ATI price drops, twisting and turning on his bed
Matt obviously is an Nvidia fan. Or something. They aren't clearing out old stock. They're clearing out the only stock they have. They're spending good money to make these chips and are selling them for little money.
That's not clearing out obsolete inventory, that's pricing yourself out of business.
Hey Matt,
If every CEO was as brilliant as you think we wouldn't have such a sh!tstorm in the economy as we do.
I'd bet on Charlie to run half the companies that have so called "Masters of the Universe" running them better.
He's been more right than wrong on Nvidia.
As of this moment (3/12/09 at 3:53pm) Tiger Direct has four GTX-295's. Different vendors. One card at $499.99 and three cards at $549.99. A gaming video card that cost more than my laptop? Not for me. Those with more money than sense (who still have jobs and money) can over pay for gaming video cards like this.
just checked newegg, 3 cards PNY says 10 per customer. Easy come, easy go.
I agree with Matt to a point, but that's missing the point also. They probably did make all they will make, and are clearing inventory. The problem is, they probably didn't want to do it yet.
They don't have much to actually make $$ on between now and next gen. They probably wanted to, since as is they'll burn some of their 1 billion instead of adding to it. Overall they've lost this round. Next round we'll see how things pan out.
The price loss is greater than that.
The article talks about using GT206... but the GT206 is NOT being used in the GTX 260... the G200-200 is more than 22% BIGGER and thus it costs more (there might be higher yields, but not that much).
@Matt
WTH! Liquidating your stock? Aren't they still MAKING the cards? And even if they weren't, they haven't made much money on these cards in 6 months because they've been losing market share to AMD since the 4800s...
We haven't got any reliable information on any new cards for the next months to come so they will be selling those for quite some time... at a loss...
I work for a large PC manufactuer in the UK and getting parts in volume to meet orders for GTX260's and GTX295's is already almost impossible and has been for a few weeks.
We managed to get 8 (Yes, Eight) cards this week. For 6 times that many orders. And 2 (!) GTX295's which we'd already waited an extra week for.
Ah well, ATi loves us now anyway.
"Clearing inventory is just gravy, they've made their money long ago. Now they need room to put their new stuff."
What new stuff? The renamed 8k/9k series chips? Or is that the new old inventory they're trying to clear so they can make room for another old chip that's been renamed to confuse joe customer?
I upgraded from an 8800GT to an HD4870. Until something measurably better comes out from either GPU maker, I'll keep my money to put towards other parts, like RAIDed SSDs and a Core i7 upgrade. :)
Cheers,
John
Check the balance sheet of the company. Check the balance sheet of the competitor. NVIDIA has somewhere around $1.6B in cash. AMD has somewhere around $5B in debt and $1B in cash. Both companies are losing money, but AMD loses 5 times more than NVIDIA does every quarter. It's actually amazing to see AMD operating.
Just checked Newegg (again) and the model count is now at 3. These dynamic shifts have been the case since the gtx295 has came out but people still seem to be getting them.
Double check your facts.
It sounds like nVidia is probably loosing about $10-15 a card and the venders are loosing the same. nVidia is trying not to loose too much market share, but venders only care about the bottom dollar. If nVida is not giving them rebates to cover their losses then they will loose venders quickly. ATI on the other hand is still making money of their chips and so are their venders. They might not really have the fastest out there, but theirs are cheaper and make money for everybody involved. They can also lower prices if needed a bit without getting into the downward spiral nVidia is getting into. I think nVidia is hoping this resesion is going to be short lived or they have another chip coming down the pipes that can compete much better. Either way it had better be soon or nVidia will be borrowing money from banks to make the cards themselves. Their investors will not stand for that.
Old tech
A price drops
Gonna get SLI
Charlie...you are so insightful! I'm so impressed with your understanding of how to run a Multi billion dollar business...you should go become the CEO!
Oh, sorry, I misread...you actually don't understand that liquidating old tech inventory (that has already made it's ROI) is what every business does. My mistake. Do the same analysis on any old computer part. When you have the new tech ready to go are you supposed to keep all your prices high so nothing sells? What happened, you shorted the stock at the wrong time? Get real. Clearing inventory is just gravy, they've made their money long ago. Now they need room to put their new stuff.
Wake up.
Just checked newegg myself.
There are quite a few different models of cards...all but two of them are out of stock. And of those two, New-Egg won't let you order more than 1 of each "due to stock-limitations"
Check your facts.
It might hurt Davidia above here but C's right. they were produced in a limited number last year but they are done for. the chips need to go elsewhere (the 275.)
The same goes with all the "review" 250's that everyone has, newegg had one and only one model available yesterday. the rest were all rebadges.
They have quite a bit in common. Jen-Hsung rants about Intel and Charlie rants about Nvidia.
Sure, Nvidia has issues, and board partners aren't happy, but I wouldn't say that ATI board partners were happy prior to the 4xxx series either.
I'm one ATI fan who never buys Nvidia, but I'll admit they usually leapfrog each other in tech and price/performance. Nvidia's due for a leap, if they ever get through just renaming die shrinks as new parts.
Uh, I just checked newegg and they have 295s in 5 separate models. Probably more than seven available. My friend just had no problem getting one... pretty damn impressive part, honestly. I'm not getting what you are saying here... should we the consumers (or insider for that matter) be concerned whether nVidia is losing money? Who cares, their parts rule. Long live the free market system. I win.