Intel will design PlayStation 4 GPU
FOR THE NEXT next generation of consoles, PS4, XBox3 and Wii2, it looks like Intel is in, Nvidia is out. The picture for their GPUs is starting to become clear.
Yeah, Intel won the PS4 GPU, no shock considering how much they needed a console win to get people coding for Larrabee. They can either convince companies to put in a code path for the chip in Big Budget Mediocre Sequel 7: Vengeance of the Farmland Creatures by sending people with wads of money and begging, or get a console win. They got a console win, and it was the right way to go.
Some people hanging around the Sony booth at CES were nice enough to let us in on the scoop. It seems Nvidia has proverbially bent Sony over like they did MS on the XBox, and are not really welcome there any more. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of guys, either way, but hardly an unexpected outcome.
Sony is looking pretty desperate nowadays with a multi-billion dollar loss in 2008, and more pain on the way for 2009. The PS3 has utterly failed in the market, and there was a lot of talk about whether or not there was going to be a PS4 at all. Sony needed a reliable partner with deep pockets which would actually be there in 2012 to fund this exercise in DRM, and it found one in Intel. Damn good choice really.
The nice Sony engineering lady at CES told us that Intel essentially bought the win, a theoretically good architecture, no imminent threats of going bust, and not being hated by Sony all contributed too. With a couple of deliverables satisfied, the PS4 GPU belongs to Intel. No word if this is going to be the entire architecture, CPU as well, or not. That, from what we are told, is not final yet.
Moving on to the the XBox3 GPU, also due in 2012, we hear strong rumors (but have not confirmed yet) that it is an ATI design. Given the close ties between ATI and MS over DirectX, the bad blood between Nvidia and MS over the grand Nvidia DX10 neutering, plus memories of the XBox1, this is not a surprise either. The bed was made for short-term profits years ago, time to lie in it.
That brings us to the Wii2, also due around the same time. Given that the ArtX / ATI guys have won about every Nintendo GPU since they went 3D, this one appears to be a no-brainer. If you take into account that it will likely be evolutionary, it is almost assuredly an ATI win as well, but we haven't confirmed it either way.
So in the end, you have Intel with one GPU confirmed, Larrabee, and ATI with another almost totally confirmed. The third is still unknown but likely will be ATI as well. Notice there is no Nvidia in this equation.
That will hamstring the egos in green badly soon, forcing them to spend a lot more on developer relations and tools if they can't claw back a console win. The games for 2012 start coding in a year, so the effects will be leading, not trailing for them.
The only real way for them to get a win at this point is to buy it, and they 1) don't have any money. 2) are bidding against someone who has money 3) are bidding against someone who they picked a stupid public fight with and 4) are hated by the two companies that make the consoles they target. This brilliant management strategy combines to mean they are locked out, if they survive that long.
Next next gen consoles also will likely have a CPU which we know nothing about. That said, given that Intel will basically be designing large swathes of the PS4, it would seem to be leaning toward x86. Given that, and MS's inclination toward x86 software, that would seem a natural path for them to follow as well, if for no other reason than to protect the living room from the ARM scourge running Linux.
With that, we have the first hard info on the next next generation gaming boxes. Given silicon time scales, three years out means work starts about now. ATI and Intel have work to do, but it should be very interesting when all things are done, a radical shift towards the PC of a magnitude not seen since the Playstation replaced cartridges with CDs. µ
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...to have Intel so close to the Cell?
is due sometime this year, an evangelist is telling businesses that it will have 2 x ppe & 32 spe's..
if that is the cpu of the ps4, it will be a multithreading deamon with larrabe onboard too..
The title just made me think Charlie. Not that anything he says is necessarily wrong - it's just that whole, have a swipe at Nvidia thing. All that aside though. When the PS3 was touted and released it was meant to be the biggest most advanced graphics platform ever!! But it failed. The XBox snuck up and took the chips there (good ol' MS). I think we should wait and see what transpires and how things evolve without making assumptions about Larabee, ATI, Non-Vidia and Santa Claus.
Sony has traditionally developed multiple lines of technology at once for the PlayStation and then picked a winner when it gets close to completion. This happened in the PS3, there was another graphics supplier before NVIDIA that got booted out near the end.
your comment - The PS3 has utterly failed in the market
just going to take a wild guess but I bet you that you yourself own a PS3,
so how about them apples
You say that the PS3 has "utterly failed in the market", well I know loads of companies who wish their products could "fail" that well.
Come on lad, why put in crap like that? It's not even close to the truth.
I'm thinking maybe N-vidia makes it own console :P. If they need to be in the gamming industry makes since don't it?
Notice Charlie found opening in field of, Prognostications. Karmaack States: Our GREEN Furture. Question, What Is This? Ati has Havok, cutting nvidia thinner. CELL was 8+1 cores & diffently good, Chartered & bit o' wrath filled Zilla. Nvidia has to accept NT6 to become viable again. Chartered ani't ?thru, their market just ani't that complex, as lenovno losing $$$ recently.People are Cheap, Government & Banking is Capitol. Not sure how cell will help now, yet larrabee is mid level, so odds are MicroMD & Sexy Harlot Nurse, named Ati, Be Pushing Some Really NEW Drug, Err, PARTS, Those Parts Know as Final XP/2Core sweep into NT6/Multi Intiation, Super VM thru 'embalmer technologies.Plus Plastic Case Thats Sniffs of; Cotton Candy.OrPINKBubbleGumIceCREAM. STeWie.
I don't see how anyone could COUNT on ATI being around at all by 2012. Look at WHY sony chose Intel. They will actually be around to finish a product. At 6Bil in losses over the last 6-7 quarters AMD is about to go under. Why pick them? I'm thinking Nvidia is definitely in the running for XBOX/WII. They still make money, have cash, no debt etc. No problem with them being around. Also have the fastest and most expensive cards again. Whine all you want Charlie, Nvidia is KING again. How much longer can AMD play a pricing game with Nvidia? AMD must invest every time AbuDhabi does in that fab to stay above 30% or so or risk breaking agreements with Intel. That means they aren't REALLY asset lite yet. So even more losses in the future for AMD on that front, and on the pricing war with Nvidia which has left AMD with bigger losses, and Nvidia still eeking out a profit...LOL. If NV is happy with a few more quarters of small profits or losses then AMD will go under or turn into cyrix again. The question of the day is, will larabee2 be any good (first one sucks) and can they write a driver to keep up with NV late next year. Otherwise I like NV stock for a quadruple by xmas 2010...LOL No pricing competition will get us $800 cards again no doubt and I can say goodbye to my yearly card upgrades I guess...$hit. that's life.
I'm sure the folks at CES know exactly what's going on with next gen console development. I'm sure they know what decisions are being made for a product that will ship in 3-4 years (an eternity in high tech). I'm sure they're very well aware of the development issues and the incredible effort every piece of code will have to go through to run on laughabee. And I'm sure they are betting the success of this franchise on an untested technology, one that won't even ship for another year.
Yeah, right.
You have nothing more than rumor and speculation.
Could anyone tell me is there an IT digest which is decent, pleasant to read and a bit less biased than THEINQUIRER? I'm a bit tired of articles like that.
http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/sony-shoots-down-intel-gpu-in-ps4-rumours-525563
TechRadar spoke with a Sony Computer Entertainment Europe rep who told us in no uncertain terms, "it's nonsense, and is quite possibly the best work of fiction I've read, since Lord of the Rings."
As a Console PS3 has not failed, however it has failed in profitability.
Cahrlie is correct to make the assumption that is has failed, obvioulsy fanboi's will argue and complain that it is teh greatest piece of hardware built.
Pairing with Nvidia Sony is grabbing their ankles at the moment, becuase the price that NV is charging for a piece of chip is something triple of what ATI is charging. This is the same issue that M$ ran into when they tried to lower the price of the Xbox1, NV wouldnt lower thier price per chip.
PS3 relied on the Cell to do all their GPU processing, shortly after they learned that this would not suffice and involved the green team.
Yes Amd has lost money, but ATI has been the only profitable department for them at the moment, and unless they brand both GPU and CPU as one device, ATI is not going nowhere.
I call it the Gizmodo culture, makign assuptions not based on any facts, yet it is there for all to see in black and white if you pay attention, pull your head out of Jobbs Mobs a$$ and you might see it for yourself.
Personally I find it a very bad idea... I know that Intel probably has made a very competitive offer because they HAVE to win a console deal and Larrabe will also going to be a beast but it is TOTALLY wrong!!! Why? It is simple. What is the biggest problem PS3 has (except price)? It is the difficulty of development. Cell was a completely new, unknown and difficult cpu. So that is why so many games take so long to develop (killzone2, GT5...) and ports sucks so much. And now... They did it once again! Not only it is going to have a new version of cell cpu (probably) but it will also have a new gpu architecture!!! I'm sure developers already have headaches... They just don't learn from their mistakes.
Go Drashek. In other news, the PS3, while a nice console, *is* a rather massive failure. Note, failure does mean bad technology, failure means lack of profitability.
Not only is this story somewhat spurious but the quality of the comments is abysmal. Can none of you spell? Can none of you make grammatical sense?
Nice way to get pageviews by claiming the PS3 is a failure. Should have the Digg fanboys rocking up any minute.
Actually - bad spelling, gibberish, fanboyism, bias. The Digg community is here already.
Many people don't remember that the first console to come out using CDs was actually the Sega Saturn. It released in November '94 in Japan and May '95 in North America beating the Playstation by 1 month in Japan and 4 months in North America.
check out http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/
there is a news section where users pick out the good articles from the daily morass of tech news.
oh, and charlie, i'm SURE you're wrong again. just like the "GT212 won't be here until late q3 or q4" article. that chip IS taped out, and nv is projected to beat daamit to the 40nm node. in q2.
I fail to understand the loyalty some people give to a graphics card manufacturer.
When a consol producer such as Sony, Microsoft or Nintendo makes a console, they go for the best bang for a buck. An amazing GPU technology could make no headway whatsoever because it costs a few pence more per unit (I live in the UK, so I’m using GPB currency).
A consol can almost afford not to be backward compatible with its last iteration.
Look at Apple changing Macs to Intel cores. There was much wailing and gnashing of teeth. Yet the Mac still survives today and is glorified.
From the standpoint of an MS PC user, the field is a little more interesting. Constant benchmarks of different graphics cards with different games cause a much more conservative view. Constant arguments about a card and its performance is rife. Try telling some people that a difference of a few frames per second is moot and you risk getting hate mail.
For instance, I’m on Ati at the moment because I own a PC with AGP. Nvidia forced my hand by not supporting an older interface. Plus, the ATI drivers remember the positions of my desktop icons and Nvidia’s did not.
The GPU wars will rage eternally. Intel may well have something with Larrabee. But, I’m a whore, I’ll buy what I think gives the best bang for the buck.
The only other factor I could consider is programming using XNA.
I am suprised that nobody came up with a suggestion for the next gen cpu's?
Isn't it surely the larabee, as well? Given its x86, and they will beable to shift the processing balance between ai/ physics, and graphics?
Could be the most flexible console yet, and imagine using both the "gpu and cpu" on those research programs (name escapes me).
@Spaz - My friend, who is pretty good at the tech market investment scene, won't touch AMD with a 20lb prospectus. He's wagering a massive shakeup is in the offing. One that will probably be caused by massive debt issues.
@b - While I wouldn't call any console this round, with the exception perhaps of the Wii, a qualified success Sony has managed to sell quite a few. As far as "technological" failure, I refer you to the 8%-32% failure rate of the X360. That failure rate is more than double the industry average on the LOW side. Should the repair processor be correct about the 32% number, that's 8 times the normal failure rate.
As for sales, as of today on VGChartz:
(rounding down!)
Wii 45m
X360 28m
PS3 20m
PS2 81m (as of the end 2004)
I'm guessing that even the Wii would like the PS2 sales numbers (but they have another year!) and MS is pretty anemic for having a head start. This round: Nintendo (and they really did need it)
suck it fanbois
Sega CD was before the Playstation.. probably already mentioned.. but.. I'm too lazy to read all of those comments.
If this is really true, we PC gamers are going to see a HUGE benefit. Larrabee in both PC's and a console means faster and fully optimized games for PC, which we don't see often. Also, I'm betting on an Intel CPU too. maybe wolfdale. a completely x86 based general purpose gaming beast. I really want Larrabeeee!!!! I read their whitepaper and they were getting 70fps at 1000x1000 resolution with 32 cores running at 1 GHz, with 4 million rays in ray tracing. And since the cores will probably run at much more than 1 GHz (probably 2-2.5), we can expect 150 fps in ray tracing at that res. I bet it will be much better in rasterization. I can't wait. (I just hope they are sensible enough and don't drop the plan for releasing it for PC's as well.)
First, thank god we are finally getting some gossip on the next gen. Og course gossips is what it is. The intel inside TM for the PS4 is a very interesting idea and just cos Sony it down in flames does mean it wont happen. Larrabee seems like a good choice for a console, basiclly plenty of grunt which could be used in lots of different ways, obviously primarily for gfx but you could of course use those core for all sorts and i fully expect that to be done. However using it in conjunction with a cell 2 seems like an odd choice. Sure if you have got a massively multicored gpu runnign x86 why would you then want to run your other stuff on something as tough to get the goods out of as a cell spu. A more conventional multi cored out of order cpu would seem like a better choice. Also why split better a weird power pc hybrid on the cpu and X86 on the gpu. If you take a step back that sounds bloody odd. I think that intel could do a bloody good job building an all in one cpu gpu south bridge die. One memeory controller to massive bandwidth where needed etc. We dont want a re run of the PS3 where bandwidth and memory areoften int he wornf place at teh wrong time cos of the seperate gfx and main memory. Just plain expensive and daft. Of course Sony maybe looking at the cells 2 for backwards compatibilty, from that standpoint it make sense, however a pure x86 box would seems a better idea. Backwards compatiblity is an isue when you launch a platform for some people, never understood it myself, so that a couple of strikes towards cell, wouldnt fancy try to emulate that.
I am sure MS will go ATI for gfx, they did a bloody good job last time around, and with nintendo seem to have a reputation of playign nice, sometime the green team certainly dont. Cpu is harder to guess, if infact there is a seperate one. A fusion CP/GPU from AMD makes a huge amoutn of sense in terms of costs and flexibilty. Of course you would then have the age old issues of sell X86 ip on to the third party, i.e. MS and the fact they would own the ip, could do die shirnks and actually ahve a bloody decent PC on a chip for all purposes. Also MS got hit bad by backawards conpatibilty with the 360 early on, try to emulate a pentium 3 on the Powerpc core of the 360. Not fun and if they have a good realtionship with IBM, which yet again have a damn good track record at keeping console vendors happy why bother. This time around either build a 6-8 core out of order cpu, or for brute power try a 12-16 core in order cpu, probably using similar clock speeds to what we have now to try and keep the power envelope down. Ok the in order would to tough to code for but yet again you get a hell of a lot of grunt in a closed, highly optimized box such as a console for your money.
With all the moeny Nintendo have have from the wii it could go a couple of ways.Not in temrs of suppliers, thoes are gonna be ATI/AMD and IBm of course. More in tems of how much emphasis they put on power this time. Last time they won with an overlcoked game cube, doesnt really make tech seem that important does it. However they do need a capable HD box next time, and too tempt back some of the more hardcore gammer out there gettign vaguely comparable to the other 2 might help. On the other hand, Ninty want a profitable box from day one so i doubt we will see anything much faster than say a current 360 at most. Maybe a lot less, grannies and 9 years old mostly dont give a shit after all
Your an idiot, Intel can't make a GPU to save their lives, at least nothing that'll surpass a PS3 and nothing with a working driver...
would replace Charlie with a new ATI part, because Charlie V1 is sounding like a broken record.
Yeah, yeah, we all know that Derek Perez had it off with your mother Charlie but for god sake get over it. If anyone for a moment thinks that Intel will have their graphics hardware sorted in 2010 then they should stick to gamespot.
If i can remember ati have a new range of top end cards, 40m gpu being released soon (april i tkink)..
dose anybody think there going to be slower than nvida, dont think so.
Larrabee has not been tested by the public yet. Why would Sony take a chance with Larrabee which is only being tested in the labs of Intel?
I would believe this article only if Larrabee has been competing in the current market with ATI and NVIDIA. I don't think that Sony is that crazy/desperate to take a chance with unproven technology. Today, Larrabee is only a paper tiger.
Hey dude, I still laugh when I think about the defective nvidia chips article series, good stuff.
As far as I am concerned, Charlie said & Charlie delivered. Any questions?
@ Rex
Starting with "Your an idiot" is really bad form. The glaring mistake reflects much.
If sony is thinking along the lines of a many core GPU/CPU combo why not just stick with the Cell. I'm not a chip engineer but doesn't the Cell already have a core number scalabilty? They could throw a minimal amount of money into a 32+ core cell. That could achieve a single chip CPU/GPU that they were hoping to get with the PS3. A holy grail perhaps but it might actually be doable.
Strap the memory directly to the Chip, cutting out any bus or bridge, and speed up data flow. You could also allow a unified shared memory that would allow the programer to choose how many cores and how much memory they want to dedicate to what ever task they like. Also opening up Ray-tracing and the such.
Benefits would be backwards compatability, dealing with one company for your parts and developer familiarity with your architecture. It would also use the 45nm process maybe less, so heat would be easy to manage, resulting in a nice cute little white box that apparently everyone wants
But I'm not a chip engineer so what would I know?
hmnm PS 4 just started with design phases, so I would think Charlie is smoking again, also bidding hasn't even started with PS 4 partners.
If so then the pc games and pc based consoles would be winners, more games on same systems means more choices of games, lower prices, easier porting from 1 platform to the next. Charlie's the greatest!!! An informative, succint and interesting story with some interesting views. Cool.
. . . . . . . . . . .. . . .. . . . . . Paragraph Bug - ... . .. . . . . . . . Please can someone fix the paragraph bug? W ...w safdfds .s dfds sdfsdf ds. sdf dsfsd aefrt tvddsca erwer. trwe Paragraph Bug. Paragraph Bug. Will someone ever ever fix the paragraph bug? The Inq PlEASE PRINT A STORY ABOUT YOUR PARAGRAPH BUG, please!
But no one actually likes developing on the Cell. You see how many games are developed in Microsoft's XBox environment first and the moved into PS3 realm later.
If Intel does deliver Larrabee as a friendly, x86 environment, I expect it will be a good choice for a CPU/GPU realm console.
This would be interesting news indeed. Only problem Charlie that nine out of ten nVidia related articles from you have turned out to be false. Not that it seems to bother you. Crappy 3D glasses? 30% layoffs? nVidia discontinuing chipsets? Your microscope massive GPU problem "evidence"? The 55nm non existent? The list goes on, but I think we've all stopped counting by now.
I'm actually starting to smile when reading your work as other news sites have started to filter out nVidia news from the inquirer. The harm you do is know adays mostly to yourselves.
And all of this because nVidia decided to cut you out from the hardware test feed a few years ago. Grow up.
I thought the CDi was the first console to have CDs, not the Saturn. Could be wrong, though. Of course, before that, there was the Sega CD add-on for Genesis. And there was probably something before that I'm not remembering.
Discs aren't necessarily a technical advantage in consoles these days. Companies could use flash memory just as easily and match storage capacity while improving load times, they just wouldn't be as cheap to produce as disc would.
If this story is true, I'd suspect that Intel has promised to pay Sony for the privilege of having Larrabee in their console. Intel would do that because they need to be certain their new tech gets adopted, and Sony would do it because they need the cash.
If you think about it, it's a similar deal to what Sony did to win the Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD war: pay money to win.
Great article, Larrabee was supposed to show up last year. News on that would be appreciated, too. Wonder how it fares against much hated Envidious should it ever emerge. Cheers
http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/sony-shoots-down-intel-gpu-in-ps4-rumours-525563
I'm like the other commenter now, I can tell what articles are by Charlie just looking at the title.
It's certainly fact that the PS1 was NOT the first console to use CDs. It wasn't the Sega Saturn either as both the Amiga CD32 and Panasonic 3DO came out in September of 1993. The Sega Mega CD doesn't really count as it was technically just an add on to the Mega Drive/Genesis.
The Philips CDi was essentially just a Super Nintendo mounted in a different case with a CD drive with a crappy control pad which came out some time in 1991. Then there was the Commodore CDTV which came out in March of 1991.
There was also the Turbografx-CD console which came out about the same time and a CD add on for the PC-Engine in Japan before that. The FM Towns Marty is usually credited as being the first console to have a CD drive, but it was only released in Japan.
But perhaps what Charlie is meaning is that it was the first successful console to use CDs as even Nintendo released the N64 in 1996 thinking that the CD option was not good enough yet. Basically if the first PlayStation had flopped like all of the other CD based systems before it, then the N64 would have been king of that generation and we may still be using cartridge based consoles today...
On the topic of the PS4 though, my guess is that Sony would certainly be considering Intel as an option for the GPU, but I doubt very much that anything will be set in stone. Intel is certainly in a better financial position than Nvidia and despite their recent plant closures and staff cuts, can still handle the manufacturing fairly well.
The main issue is that the Larrabee architecture is mostly untested and new so few developers would be keen on testing it out until it is shown to be successful. But by the time 2011 or 2012 comes around, it should have been launched to the desktop PC market where it will have a chance to show what it can (and can't) do.
Nvidia is still in with a chance for the PS4 as long as they can come up with an evolved GPU that is not much more difficult to code software for than the PS3 while having exceptional performance and the price of the chips are low so that Sony actually doesn't have to sell their consoles at such a huge loss as they are now.
The PS3 has been a big financial dissappointment for Sony. With the huge amount of R&D that went into developing the system only to have it make them no profit while Sony's other ventures are also dropping (TVs, and other electrical producst) is quite a big failure in business terms. If they do actually release a PlayStation 4, it had better actually make money, or Sony could die as a company.
"The nice Sony engineering lady at CES told us that Intel essentially bought the win, a theoretically good architecture, no imminent threats of going bust, and not being hated by Sony all contributed too..."
Is this before or after the nice sony lady called security on you. You may be right but most of the time (95%) you also are wrong... So who are we to believe?
I read this piece at some other site and though "wow.. so much unconfirmed nvidia hate, sounds like something Charlie would write".. boom! =)
Some things here.
For Sony - Intel isn't really the first thing that comes to mind when it comes to 3D. Sony seems to be betting the farm here with Intel.
For Intel - They'd better do it right. All this hype about Larabee better be true. I heard they're gonna start making hand cream next.
For Nvidia - They seem to be in a rather tight spot nowadays, with failing chips, all that public crap with Intel, and now this. I prefer ATI but I'd hate to see Nvidia fail because this will only mean Intel gains market share and adds more pressure on the already embattled AMD.
For Microsoft - They'd better design the Xbox (3?) right. While the 360 enjoys good market share today, its design is simply botched up. No wonder so many 360 consoles are failing. I originally wanted one, but decided I'll get a Wii instead.
For AMD/ATI - Maybe they can peddle their Athlon Neo for consoles? Call it the Athlon Mario or something. Selling all those GPUs won't keep the boat from sinking, and I don't think anyone would seriously consider Phenom II for a console. Maybe the Dark Mayor should go visit Sega and pull them back in.
For me - Some popcorn and cola. This is gonna be fun to watch.
http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/sony-shoots-down-intel-gpu-in-ps4-rumours-52556
"TechRadar spoke with a Sony Computer Entertainment Europe rep who told us in no uncertain terms, "it's nonsense, and is quite possibly the best work of fiction I've read, since Lord of the Rings.""
LOL! Oh well Charlie, you can retire from reporting on IT now, apparently you have the makings of a fantastic fiction writer (something anyone who has read your anti-nvidia rants is well aware of).
Please do us all a huge favor and make the career change ASAP!
"TechRadar spoke with a Sony Computer Entertainment Europe rep who told us in no uncertain terms, "it's nonsense, and is quite possibly the best work of fiction I've read, since Lord of the Rings."
A rep!?! Not a Sony spokesman, not some trusted inside source, but a doodah rep? Yeah right. It would be just like Sony to go with a boneheaded move like Wackabee. I vote with Charlie on this one -- his track record is excellent!
this not work until we get ever integrated right on the chip. Monitor, Console, Players, well all own to chip on/off the supreme neo=matrox circuit culture. SiPid. Lest the madly ravenous warewolf, hume too savagely tear or too ravagedly devour too much from a too godly flock; chain the beast by light of a full moon within a warehouse, forthwiht. Tomast Steward Dressshack. Come in, then, we'll reduce you one half off. How yo like dem Apples?
Hard choice, there for developers.
Program for the XBoX and PC market at the same time (code base is the same almost!) or just waste time developing solely for the PS3/4 market. On top of that the development tools for the PS* are a FAIL and that's WHY it is so hard coding for it. IMHO they should push the CURRENT technology like they did with the Commodore 64, squeeze it for everything you can get out of the CURRENT hardware. It's AMAZING how far they pushed that technology. Just give the coders an easy way to do it, for crying out loud AND make it worthwhile!
The PS4 shall be a guaranteed FAIL in this economic market without doubt.
Playstation 3 is not dead.
MS said when we com with nVIDIA we lose in Xbox1 .
Sony said we almost Bankruptcy because nVIDAI solution in PS3 .
but MS never complaint when come with ATI in Xbox360
Like Sony never complaint from PS2 when they make it with ATI .
nVIDIA r so Greed .
Microsoft ditched x86 on the Xbox 360 and it caused massive problems for backward compatibility. In addition, Intel wouldn't co-operate with die-shrink efforts on the original Xbox, meaning they couldn't combine CPU and GPU into one chip for a 'slim' Xbox. Going with PowerPC architecture meant they got the IPR for the CPU itself, meaning they got control over die-shrinks. Power's a pretty good architecture - Motorola/Freescale just couldn't clock it fast enough to support Apple's ever-hungrier requirements. (They were behind on multi-core efforts too.)
I don't think MS will repeat the back-compat mistake a second time.
That's crap. Sony will stick with an upgraded Cell for the PS4 and go with GDDR5 ram. Why go through all that R&D just to ditch it when things are beginning to mature.
Get a clue.
....for the PS3 as their core. If Intel does have the contract they are not going to want to wait till next year before a new console starts rolling let alone well into the next decade.
New consoles all round xmas 2010.
This time please can we drop the crippled media console angle and go back to hardcore gaming consoles?
Oh, come on Charlie. I really don't know or care what someone from Nvida has said or done to you but reading your aticles is beoming incredibly dull. I'm not exactly an nvidia fanboy (I alternate between whatever card takes my fancy) but as far as the consumer goes they are hardly evil incarnate are they? So what if they have a few arrogant directors?
The odd dodgy chipset has happened to all card manufacturers and truth be told they are probably the best currently in the marker for drivers and general compatabilty. Oh, I have an Ati card installed for your info.
For all those who are saying that "Sony would never take a chance on an untested new technology"
-----
"Cell"
-----
None of Sony's past consoles have used proven or standard chips. Nvidia GPU is the most "tested" they have employed across three generations.
Well it has been widely suggested the only way for Intel to get people to program for Larrabee is to get a console (which I agree with). Interesting to know who may be considering going with Larrabee. As response to other comments, prospects of Nvidia being around 2012 doesn't look good neither (they are forecasting 40 to 50% revenue drop).
Hahaha Intel Gpu tech suck !!!
Anyone that has some PC hardware knowledge will know what i mean..
PS4 will fail miserably...
This makes no sense. Why should Sony use a technology which is completly different from the cell. Then the PS4 would be not compatible to the PS3.
If they try to use Raytracing in the PS4, I think they would use Cell CPUs. Maybe the same Cell CPU as in the PS3 but 4 of them with a higher frequence.
And for the GPU, it would be nonsense to use an incompatible ATI GPU. Also Nvidia had the faster Single GPUs at the moment.
I dont know whats wrong with people these days, i was happy with monochrome graphics back in 1842 on my playstation -300 now we all want consoles with 5 tri-gillion rayguy generators and a llama on top with x ray vision.
but seriously these guys are fighting a pointless war where i expect Nintendo will whip ass again. If Nintendo plays it smart and ups the graphics power of its next console, adds hi def content options via bluray and bluray playback via an add on later to keep intial costs low, make the previous controllers from the wii compatible and offer the public a cheap bundle with no no controllers. The money saved by consumers can be plowed into graphics power and the newcomers who dont own a wii can buy a more expensive package then the mighty Ninty will rule all!
Go Pikatchu!!
The 3DO - The Amiga is more like a PC.
Then the Turbo Grafx 16 CD came and the Neo Geo CD / Sega CD (The Saturn came afterwards) and on - I think that we can call the Turbo Grafx CD as the "True" first gaming CD console out their. Ahh, I miss good old 2D games!!! Now all is in 3D. Not fair!
So I don't know why you peeps keep complaining. So far Intel was focusing on economy instead of performance (meaning you can keep you laptop twice longer on batteries than nv or ati ones) for overall usage (not gaming) and these cards were working well at this points.
Larrabee is completely a different story, fully programable, no bottlenecks because of fixed pipeline stuff, you can divide all workload evenly on all cores to avoid them. It will be a new graphic cards era, programmers will perform as they wish, not like NV that forces programmers to adjust heavily to their way of programming and guides (because you need to do it to get good performance on NV's cards). Hopefully it will change.
go check the other biased website or google it.
Tell me, why would Sony in their right minds hire Intel, with no track record whatsoever in designing high performance graphics processors, to make the successor to the PS3, for which Sony spent considerable mountains of money developing the Cell processor in collaboration with IBM and Toshiba? It's the most preposterous nonsense you've come out with yet.
"The PS3 has utterly failed in the market..."
Oh, really?!?!? Surprise to those of us that haven't been paid off by MS yet, I guess!!
This whole thing is about as probable as an Apple + Nvidia based console.
WTF? PS4!? Then I click the link and I read "Charlie" and then I was like ohh... then I closed the tab.
I'm guessing AMD will win contracts for Playstation 4, Xbox 3 and the Wii.
AMD has the best overall technology with CPU and GPU and more importantly its proven. Unlike Intel who's working on graphics and Nvidia who's working on CPU.
AMD has low show price, but they are cutting debts and have billionaire backers. They are investing in a new factory to be operational in 2011, which will produce 22nm. They ain't going anywhere.
It would make sense for AMD to win all three contracts. Since developers could could cut costs by porting the bulk of their work across platforms without hassle, something which give the console industry great synergy. Something they've been raving on about for awhile...
They should focus on evolution not revolution. It takes too much effort to develop the HW, OS, dev tools and backward compatibility. Look how long I took to get the PS3 to market compared to MS Xbox360. Could they apply more desktop PC technology to be more incremental. Double the CPU power and 4x GPU power (2x with no re-write) and release as PS3.5 in a few years and run PS3 games without a problem. Boost a few settings in current dev tools and you get decent games at release. Focus on UI and the better game play instead of just raw computing power.
"The PS3 has utterly failed in the market"
Anyone who says that has no clue, and that's where I stopped reading the article. I also take everything befor the comment with a very large pinch of salt.
sorry Ben you dont know tour history very well, close but NO cigar.
"Playstation wasn't the first without cartridges...
Many people don't remember that the first console to come out using CDs was actually the Sega Saturn. It released in November '94 in Japan and May '95 in North America beating the Playstation by 1 month in Japan and 4 months in North America.
posted by : Ben, 05 February 2009Complain about this comment "
sorry Ben close but NO cigar, your wrong, the first CD console was infact the "Amiga CD32" in September _1993_ , a full 24 months earlyer than your invalid claim to fame....
CD32 ws also holds the crown for being the first _console_ to be able to become a fully fledged Personal Computer... and other records too...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_CD32
"...
The Amiga CD32, styled "CD32", was the first 32-bit CD-ROM based video game console released in western Europe and Canada.
It was first announced at the Science Museum in London, United Kingdom on 16 July 1993, and was released in September of the same year.
The CD32 is based on Commodore's Advanced Graphics Architecture chipset, and is of similar specification to the Amiga 1200 computer.
Using 3rd-party devices, it is possible to upgrade the CD32 with keyboard, floppy drive, hard drive and mouse, turning it into a personal computer. A hardware MPEG decompression module for playing Video CD was also available.
The CD32 managed to secure over 50% of the CD-ROM market in the UK in 1993 and 1994, outselling the Sega Mega-CD, the Philips CDi, and even PC CD-ROM sales.[citation needed]..."
many of todays so called innovations take their lead from the Amiga, daves and carl's amoung the designers innovative HW/SW 16/32 bit thinking, credit were its due please...
its a shame the tranputer didnt get better backing in the day too, now that was also inavative thinking you dont seem to see much of today...
Compared to what, xbox360s 28 million in THREE years? What in the hell are you talking about charlie? Failure as in hardware failure? No, 360 would be that 'failure'. And what about the profit they make on ps3 software, is that included? I have about 12 games so far, how much profit did they make on these, and doesn't this offset the ps3 manufacturing cost? And what about blu-ray sales, 70% of blu-ray players are ps3s, so you have to factor that profit in it's 'failure' also, charlie. It's like the printer economics model, they practically give away the printer, then make a huge profit on the ink, and 2009 looking good for new ink for the ps3.
Obviously, Charlie is just being funded by Intel to dispromote its competitors. He does it so subtly against ATI, but very aggressive towards nvidia.
The INQ has a long history of hating nvidia and is already established. But charlie banging so much negative publicity towards nvidia. He is much much unprofessional and worse than Fudo was when he was promoting ATI (and dismissing nvidia) during his INQ days.
The PS3 is a joke, the PS4 will also be a joke. So much for the 10 year life span that the PS3 was going to have.
says SCEE rep
http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/sony-shoots-down-intel-gpu-in-ps4-rumours-525563
Firstly I have both ps3 and x360, to be honest iam happy with both machines, and with titles like killzone 2 and gears these machines have just now started earning there keep. I like the the idea of an intel gpu inside the ps4 that would be something special.
Finally some god damn AA and Proper 1080p games.
Yup, silly. First of all, there's the bogus claim that "PS3 has failed in the market". First -- everyone seems to forget that the X-Box 360 had a year's head-start on the PS3. And that, while it's pretty much being tapped out now, folks are still pushing the PS3 to new levels (sure, it's that kind of learning curve, but nothing's going to change that in future consoles, either).
Then there's ignoring the fact that the PS3 already succeeded. Its primary mission was fulfilled a year ago -- beat Microsoft and Toshiba on the HD front, win the market for Blu-Ray. Check.
Microsoft did post a profit for its X-box division in FY2008... the first ever, since they started gaming. They lost nearly $2 billion in FY2007, and lost every year since they launched the original X-box. In the PS2 days, Sony was making about 40% of their corporate profits from the PS2 division.. so sure, everyone understands these things take awhile to hit profitability. Wait for the next die shrink and $100 price drop this Spring.
As for Larrabee, you really have to wonder what Microsoft is smoking. In the Windows 7 preview, DirectX benchmarks run on full blow x86 16-way systems in software don't match preformance of a $75 dedicated graphics card. Maybe they'll tweak it up, and sure, 10-20 x86 cores sound nice for video rendering or something, but compared to 200+ stream processors for graphics kernel stuff.. I don't buy it. I'm sure Sony doesn't.
At first I was all "yeah right", then I thought "no way!". Then I realized "heinous" and "BS"!!
This article is someone talking out of their blowhole. No deal has been made according to Sony, and I believe them over a random story. No cooberating evidence, no links, no quotes, no names, no diddly squat. Especially since Sony won't do ANYTHING to jeopardize their ten-year plan with the Playstation 3.
Shoddy reporting, for shame.
honestly, why use discs?
"Given that, and MS's inclination toward x86 software, that would seem a natural path for them to follow as well, if for no other reason than to protect the living room from the ARM scourge running Linux."
I dunno if you knew this or not, but Linux runs on x86 archetecture now.
The new little wonder chip from Creative could throw a spanner into the works if it's as good as I think.
i think ps4 chip will be toshiba based.
To that guy up there who mentioned something about amd losing a lot and being in debt... Hey numb nuts have you heard of the lawsuit against nvidia on their HP pavilion series of failures? I personally own an HP pavilion and I had the gpu repaired for about 5 times. I had to ebay a motherboard that has an intel gpu on it... now my laptop runs cooler and faster running on intel igp... sure its a lot slower but to hell with nvidia and theyre money making schemes... its time to show the true power behind the red team... GO CYPRESS GO!!!