Microsoft dusts off 'Apple tax' argument

"However, what CNET failed to work out was that they have fallen into Vole's cunning plan and admitting that their toys are more expensive than ordinary PCs."

Congratulations, you just penned another piece that fell into the same 'trap' that CNET did. You wrote the article to an audience that already knows macs are more expensive, and with a much snappier attitude, but you did it just the same.

A ball-point is cheaper than a fountain pen, a Lada is cheaper than a Mercedes, straw is cheaper than bricks. If Microsoft wants to position itself as a bargain brand, it's going in the right direction. Most other brands, though, invest hard to defend their market position.

Ultimately, the bottom line is that Mac OS X is a different operating system from Windows. The only deduction that can be made from the different price, different system argument is that OS X is able to command a price premium. In other words, those who buy it believe it's a better product.

For the rest, the software is cheaper and less buggy on the Mac. iWork trumps MS Office for a much lower price, Merlin beats MS Project, OmniFocus, on Mac and iPhone, trumps any number of Windows offerings. Equivalents of GarageBand and iPhoto have to be purchased separately by Windows users. And, of course, the OS X upgrades are generally much cheaper than Windows upgrades, and most machines have a life-span of three or more versions of the Mac OS, whereas few Windows machines survive even one upgrade.

The argument about peripherals also collapses quickly: quality peripherals work on both systems. It's the bargain basement scanners, printers, and graphic pads that only work on Windows. But if you're buying a quality machine, you probably aren't interested in unbranded peripherals.

www.martinturner.org.uk

What Apple tax? I run Linux, Windows and Mac. The Windows systems are the most expensive to set up and run, they require constant attention. With Linux and Apple, it's pretty much set and forget. To claim that Apple systems are more expensive to own and run? I think not. I have a seven year old Apple G4 tower that is running the latest version of OS X 10.5 Server with 1.5TB of hard drives. It's never missed a beat. It would be a rare sight to see a seven year old computer running Windows Server 2008 in a production environment. As for value comparison, by the time one has purchased a decent Windows computer (One with comparable quality that lasts at least three to five years), plus all the additional software (which Apple already includes) and removes the pre-installed shovelware, I find that the Apple systems cost the same and in some cases less. As for maintenance, we're finding that the Apple and Linux systems require very little maintenance and cost a fraction of what it takes to run a Windows system.

Total Cost of Ownership is what really counts. The time lost in just one week pratting around with Windows XP makes a Mac worth the extras dosh. I dunno how people can waste money time and time again on a hobbled system. As for Vista...

I love reading comments from people who are obviously computer illiterate. Specifically the guy claiming he has Linux, Mac, and Windows. If you have to spend the entire week screwing with your Windows install, then you need to turn off the computer and walk away. Windows is an open system that lets you do what you want to do with it. That's why there is more hardware, software, games, peripherals, etc for the platform. If your Windows is jacked, you did it. Even with Apple having a closed platform they can dictate the hardware and drivers for, they still have 40-50 patches a month as apposed to even Vista's 10-15...Safari, Quicktime, and iTunes being the biggest offenders. I've had the same Vista install on my PC for over 2 years now, same hardware, and no antivirus. Guess what? Not a single virus, malware, blue screen, crash, or hardware failure. Don't get me wrong, I love the Mac OS, but to claim that Windows is a constant headache of a crashing OS just shows how little you know about computers. The virus on your computer is YOU.

the stupidest post of the day goes to Rickn for this quote
It would be a rare sight to see a seven year old computer running Windows Server 2008 in a production environment.
Now Since it's only a year old.. yes that would be a sight to see.. LOL just another MAC Zealot..
Mac's are overpriced.. that's the truth.. Suck it up and get over it already.
Apple users are also usually require external gratification for their purchases.. Admit it.. you've bought a Apple product and you said at least once to someone.. Hey I just bought an IPOD an Apple MAC or an IPHONE.. and then proceeded to say Want to see it! LOL you know it's true.. your all just lemmings trying to feel cool cause you bought a shinny over priced piece of hype.

"Now Since it's only a year old.. yes that would be a sight to see.. " -- would you please elaborate?

You completely miss the point.
I do work with windows and i suffer since i'm used to the simple, always working (and if not with appropriate message) Linux. I do use MAC sometimes, and after all this years i can say one thing:
Not computer educated users will pay less with anything but MS.
They don't need to pay for stupid things like antivirus, technician to fix broken OS and save their data at least once a year.
I thought like you when i left home and left my parents with MS. to many calls and my wasted time to fix it.
Today they have one Linux box on HP xw4100 (old P4 HT 2.8 on 478 socket) running all they need including CAD for ~ 3 years and for almost a year macbook.
no issues, no wasted time and no HW upgrades.
Yes you pay little bit more for the Mac at the beginning, but you save more in first year.

In the Windows world it's uncommon for the OS that is installed on the computer to be upgraded to a new paid version of Windows and unheard of to put a modern OS on a machine that's 7 years old. That's because on the Windows side OS updates generally require a more powerful computer. On Macs up until Leopard each version of OS X has run faster on the old hardware.

Everyone knows Apple kit costs more -- but it also looks better. That's a choice.

As for Microsoft, we just bought a Lenovo and specified Win XP -- but were forced to accept a machine with Vista and then uninstall that and install XP.

That's a tax.

While normally I disagree with the BS that pours out of Microsoft's PR department this time they are right. Simple fact is Apple tends to charge you more for equivalent gear. Now granted they've gotten a lot better about it as they've converted their hardware to more standard fair ie you don't have to pay $600 for a graphics card upgrade that would have cost you $100 on a PC anymore but they are still the only company I've ever seen to essentially patent a shade of white. I say that cause they're the only people I've ever known to charge you more for white colored product over any other colored product and they do it because it's not just white, it's signature Apple white. Anyway as others have already commented MS has it's taxes these days too which can be summed up in one word, Vista.

Personally I say stick with XP or switch to Linux, you'll have less headaches overall and in a few months once the expansions to opengl 3.0 are released you won't have to worry about that whole DX10 thing cause there will be a graphics API that does all the same fun stuff on XP and Linux as long as you got DX10 class hardware.

People pay more for Apple systems because you get OSX, thats what people want. They belive it has better value then Windows, and have no problem paying for it. Not everyone wants to buy the cheapest peice of crap they can find.

OH sure. Vista will run on a $400 PC. Vista extra basic that is..
But....... To unleash this bloated monster and let it be all it can be requires hardware expenses that total up to a cost that's a bit higher than any Apple kit. Apple users know what they expect, and Apple gives it to them. At a price they will pay. They write their OS to support the hardware they put in their systems. And it just plain (for the most part) works.

And D-OveRMinD.. What planet have you been hiding on the past 20 years. Windows is ANYTHING but "open". Majority of the code is locked up tight never to be seen by anyone including the courts (IMHO Intellectual Property = we don't want you to find out who we nicked it from). Hardware support sticks close to windows because MS PAYS $$$/gives incentives to the companies to keep it that way.

Remember always. Windows started life as a buggy ripoff of the Apple OS improperly ported to work on the Intel PC platform. Now it continues to be that plus they add bits and pieces the Linux community has come up with. IE has always been a rip off of Netscape/Mozilla project. I could keep going. MS has never put a product to market that includes anything that hasn't been done before. Including crud that other developers have dumped in the trash cause they didn't work correctly.

LoCatus

Yes, they cost more. But then in 5 years time the Apple product will probably still be working and will be worth at least half what is was bought for.
A five year old Windows machine will probably still be working, albeit with some different components, but will be worth about £50.
Apples look better and work better and the novelty value of computers has worn off and they're now all but ubiquitous and people resent the time lost messing around with crashes, corrupted registries and endless updates to protect against endless threats because this operating system just isn't secure despite WIndows being in its umpteenth incarnation and haven't Microsoft earned enough bloody money to sort this out once and for all. And they want something that will last, look good and be reliable.
And then they hear about Apple.

MS are right. Linux might be a better option though, but it's still not as user friendly as win.

Working in an art college where there whole place is Mac based from server to workstations, the support staff are excellent but they struggle endlessly with this supposedly perfect operating system. No, changing your workplace from Windows to OSX will not unleash the age of Aquarius, sorry. Mail will screw up, upgrades will cause trouble, data will corrupt, disks will need to be reformatted.

Students, God bless them, can screw up any OS, a fool would say that running Linux would make a whit difference.

My part in this pain is the lack of choice in software. We have a problem now where Apple's software can't work with a certain video camera. And that's the end, because nobody else is allowed to compete in their tiny market. I need to sneak my PC into work to solve the problem.

Please, iLife is not serious, it's something you uninstall to reclaim the disc room. It adds value like wrapping a Christmas present.

Apple's do look nice and people pay for things that look nice.

OSX versus windows versus linux, each has their place. anybody who doesn't see that must be very biased. And really they target different kinds of people and different work sets.

The biggest problem with linux and to some degree osx is still the lack of software and drivers compared to windows in my opinion. but if mac os and linux had all the same software and drivers as windows they'd inherit almost all the same problems as windows. sure some parts of each os is superior to the others, but really who buys a computer to use the os? you want the software that runs on the os.

Microsoft should just make a list of 100 or 1000 popular software titles that only run on windows, that's really all they need to remind people windows isn't irrelevant :-). Because let's face it, I use linux daily, and the linux equivalents are generally not quite as good as the windows ones.
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These are computers, not a religion. Use what works best for you.

"Of course the chance of getting a negative story about Apple in the US tech press is about as likely as INQ reporters getting a pay rise." should have read "Of course the chance of getting a negative story about Apple in the US tech press is about as likely as Nick Ferrell writing a positive story about Apple."

Wow, a Nick Farrell article about Apple that wasn't completely venomous. I'm impressed!

There's no denying that Apple hardware is expensive, but they are competing in the high end. Compare a Macbook Pro to a similarly specced competitor, such as one of Sony's offerings, and you'll find the price difference isn't big. Of course it is compared to a cheap and cheerful 300 quid plastic fantastic laptop, but then again, that's a cheap and cheerful 300 quid plastic fantastic laptop.

How about workstations? The Mac Pro is in its base configuration one of the best value for money 8 core workstations you can get. There's no denying that Apple gouge you for more hard drive space or RAM, but contrary to what your article says, these parts are completely standard and there's nothing you sourcing hard drives and RAM from a third party. Regarding other accessories I've not had problems getting standard gadgets working with my Macs. Printers, scanners, my phone (a nokia) and all the other stuff I use with my computer worked fine. The narrow choice of software is plain nonsense, with the exception of games. Adobe and Microsoft both release their most important products for Mac, the absence of which is what put me off Linux. If you don't want to run Microsoft Office for Mac there's OpenOffice or Apple iWork instead, other than Adobe most of the other software on my Mac is FOSS. As for games, there's always Boot Camp.

I can't help but feel that Apple might be making some mistakes in the low end market though, the cheapest plastic Macbook is rather pricy compared to its competitors. Apple would be doing well to drop its price quite a bit further.

I run the same Windows XP for the last 5 years. It was completly installed on my home pc in march 2008. back then was on an amd barton 2500+ , 1 year later on a AMD 3400+ A64 on s725 (don't remeber exactly) and in july 2007 i switched to Intel CoreDuo 2.4 (6420 i think ) on a P965. When i switched to Intel i got the first blue screen , after i tried to access one of the 4 HDD's without restarting after the motherboard drivers install. The only blue screen that i have got on XP .
I had countless malware, spyware, RCP issue, viruses , keyloggers. Anyway during this 5-6 years none managed to corrupt 1 bit of data that i needed on my pc, neither i lost my money from CC's , my WOW account etc.

And yes XP allows me to play any freacking game that i want,i can use any freacking printer, camera, any software, any torrents , lets me do wtv i want wit it.

At work i use Linux, XP and a Mac sometimes . I am not an expert in OSX but i was shocked how slow a mini mak , from 2006, is working with the latests OSX patches. Really guys that crap mini mak was moving like a celeron @400 mhz and 256 ram running XP. So whatever apple geeek telling me that OSX doesn't kill apple hardware get a life .
Yea is running fine on my collegs core2 'apple white' mac's. But is the same with XP .

For XP and Linux you need BRAINNNNNNNNZZZZZZZZZ . If you lack it go buy a mac and for god sake don't forget to buy the "keyboard condom for your 'aple white' mak" , so your keyboard remains PURE forever !

Microsoft wont go anywhere..even if it is a bargain brand whos gonna use a mac for a government computer. Most governments will use Windows or Linux based pc's for all theyre computing needs which makes them the money. Macs are on a home based consumer level thats why they are so expensive.

macs are far too expensive hardware wise, take for example the newly released 17inch macbook pro, £1949 brand new, yet the hp hdx16 that i'm eying up which has blu-ray and a better GPU (9600m over macs 9400) is only £799, mac must be charging up to £1000 for their operating system!

Insane is the word that comes to mind when you actually build pc's and know whats in them, but the majority of the world will eat whatever apple feeds them as they think it must be better.

Fair enough M$ says the 'Apple isle' has less gear. But take a walk into the PC isle, there's nothing but horrifically gaudy cheapo junk.

There's less competition in the Apple space because generally, those willing to splash out for an Apple don't want to buy some horror of gormless design school to go with it. Crappy junk just doesn't sell; it needs to be stylish and look like it's quality.

The PC market is like a 3rd world bazaar; you're hard pressed to find anything stylish or of any real quality because it's a market driven by price foremost.

For example, I've been looking for a wireless kbd & mouse for my HTPC to use in the lounge room. I wasn't happy with any of the ones I tried, so last week I gave up and bought the Apple one and might i say it looks great, and works perfectly.

Yeah Were talking about a MAC computer not perphrials. Its ironic that you bought the apple one for an (HT"PC") Why did you choose that HTPC over a Mac OS based computing platform is the real question? and yes PC has more products at cheaper prices because of competition its a risk but not everyone can afford shelling out the cash when they can get something that hopefully works equally or better. How many problems have theyre been with alot of apples products? IE the Ipod and its battery life. And also when you look at the problems each platform has you also have to take into account the ammount of sales in each platform? How many sales with microsoft compared to apple and whats the profit per sale is the real thing you should look at. Everyone has problems, but most problems are user error. Apple is by no means "highend" its just very user friendly, its more for novices. It intergrates itself into peoples lifes very easily and microsoft is starting to understand that and is working towards making theyre OS better for advanced users and the novices...its only a matter of time before such a thing is a thing of the past. Microsoft can be called big and bad but to be honest with out theyre competition... would Linux unix and mac still be alive? Look at IBM as well.. microsoft helps all the computing industrys even though they take alot of money in doing so. But look at macs profit per product compared to microsoft and who steals more? Pretty much its like Mac is like buying a 1080 Plasma HDTV and using it for Analog Antenna tv. Buying a Windows based pc is like Buying a Ultra Sharp LCD TV and using it for HDTV with any type of connection you please. People like options and thats why microsoft sells...It has the options. It may not cost as much but its SOMEWHAT user friendly and has OPTIONS.

The reality is if you want to do serious data analysis the mac leaves you out in the cold. I bought a MC book pro last year only to find that (even though I had been assured by the mac genius) it does not run Analyze It. There is no strong data analysis program. What the MAC OS offers would do fine for one in primary school, but that's it. Now I proudly own a 3k computer which I only use for iTunes.
My understanding is that MACs are brilliant for graphic design, however I am research scientist and the total lack of useful programs makes its worthless.
If you want a pretty design that runs Windows wait a few months and buy the Adamo, the Dell which will be thinner then the mac book air but more powerful and still have an optical drive....

Really, are you people serious?
I dont have to go into to much detail, but. Of course apple os 10 (theres no need for the x, were not roman) runs on old hardware, but you did fail to mention that it is based of a mach kernel that integrates practically all of BSD. I mean people run BSD on diskless machine with a flopy! with 233mhz!! and 32megs of ram!!! and quite fast too!!!!! I dont think apple can take any of that away. Also you people don't understand the history of the apple, and the only reason apple managed to get where it is today. Apple had the fortune (wozniak who went to Berkeley, as in BSD Berkeley) to have a low priced computer that eventually was compatible with all the previous versions, and hence developed a really big source of software!!! Sound familiar people? And don't forget that the 1st apple had no bus structure, no ram, no keyboard, no monitor, and was the bargain. In other words it was a piece of shit compared to the altair. wozniak threw in 2 chips and a cheap floppy controller, for the apple 2 hello!! thats what makes pc's what they are! A really cheap hardware base, a really big software base. Why is it that consoles die? because of the software base!, look at the ps2. PC is on 2 good strong feet, and now apple wants to be pc compatible. Its no surprise that you point out your apple can do the same things a pc can. YOu know why? because pc is the benchmark,! Who the hell needs top of the line hardware? why the fak did people need SCSI controllers in their macs back in 92? look were in sata now, most pc people practically skipped SCSI and are now in sata. Its just a rip off, apple is a rip off. One example, if you want to make a program for an iphone, wich is os 10 still. You have to own apple hardware, buy a license (even for free software), get accepted on itunes, and of course give apple 30% of your revenue! Microsoft doesnt work like that. Apple doest have drivers most network, cards video cards, chipsets, system devices, and of course the biggest problem. They don't support regular monitors!!! SHOCKING!!!! they have a proprietary cable for video!!!! So you only tell me what your os 10 can do, because the things it cant do are too much to list. Thats what happens when you twist around standards, standards that are there for that reason. For compatibility, i mean windows runs on everything! NT even runs on powerpc!! Vista is a NT system, so theoredically it can be compiled for powerpc!! Is there anything windows wont run on? is there anything usefull that wont run on windows? Its funny that apple makes itunes and safari for windows! Its also funny you buy a machine with os10 and then pay money to get a bootloader, so you can install windows on it!! SHOCKING!!! so pc is everything apple was, no wait, pc is better than anything that apple has. Interface is nothing, if you still have to go to the console to make use of the damn thing.

"Microsoft argues you can save $100, or 16 per cent, by going for a Dell Studio Hybrid or HP Pavilion Slimline over a low-end Mac Mini."

A whole 100 dollars?
How exactly am I going to run OSX on one of those machines, though?

foo, the real question is this: Why would you WANT to run OSX?

OSX software $129.00, desktop to run it starting at $1199.00 for the lowest desktop they offer, and throw out your brand new home built kit 'cause it's not shiny enough $800+... ya, that OS is quite the deal.

A few points I'd like to make:

1) If it takes you a week to set up your windows xp box, and it still crashes all the time requiring IT support, you're a complete idiot who has no place making comments about whether macs or PCs are better. Yes a mac probably does suit you better for the simple reason you struggle with even the basic functions of a computer. This does not make the mac a superior machine, it is simply evidence of your own ineptitude.

2) Using VMWare, you can run all versions of window plus os X on a PC, which if you built it yourself (again more a case of square peg in square hole than rocket science), will run faster than any mac at half the cost. Best of all worlds.

3) People talk about Mac being a premium product being evidence of it being better. No. It is a premium product because of clever marketing. Mac were very clever in targetting self-obsessed ludites who need a computer to survive in a their modern profession, for example, the design industry. All of them convinced they 'need' macs to do their job, when if they can get over themselves they'd realise all they care about is having a laptop/desktop which looks nice and can do some very simple tasks. This is a sort of self-feeding psychosis, because once a majority of a profession have one kind of computer the rest of the sheep all follow suit and it becomes industry standard for the brilliantly rational reason of looking nice.

4) IF Macs were so brilliant, you'd think they would account for more than 10% of the market share. I love to see fanboys talking about mac 'getting where they are today' - which is essentially not very far.

So in essence a mac is a computer for the vain, and for the technologically impaired. It's not the choice of anyone wanting good value for money, or a flexible platform for a wide range of computing needs. Don't get me started on the cost if your mac does happen to go wrong....

Rant over.

Most people naturally want to use the same computer OS (Windows) as everyone else -- just as you want to use the same Auction site (Ebay) internet phone (Skype), etc. There are real benefits to going with the crowd.

That's simply a fact of life. Learn to live with it. What we DO NOT have to live with is corporations leveraging a monopoly to kill off competitors in other areas.

In this respect, Microsoft is a serial killer. It's used it's OS monopoly to kill Lotus, Borland, WordPerfect, Novel, Mozilla...

Ebay should not be allowed to require PayPal. Apple should not be allowed to require iTunes, nor to require Apple hardware to run their OS.

If their hardware or software is so d**ed good, split it off. Let it survive on its own.