The cows were desperate to be milked, the sheep to be sheared
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Comment o't'Week
Re: Nvidia chips show underfill problems
Dear Charlie
First, I’d like to say thank you very much for a well researched and informative article. I would also like to thank you for your efforts to inform us (the consumers) about problems with popular products. I too have had the misfortune of dealing with nVidia’s aberrant attitude towards the press, and as such, your revealing articles incite a sense of vindictive pleasure. To those among your commenters who claim that your credibility is lowered by your persistent reporting on nVidia and AMD/ATI, I would like to give this food for thought: In journalism of all forms, it is not at all uncommon for a given journalist to specialize. I am lead to understand that in the united states, people actually compete for the opportunity to do little more than report on the goings on of the White House. Others report on environmental issues, Big Oil, or any of a number of different topics. Many of these journalists report exclusively on their chosen topic for a large amount of, or indeed the entirety of, their professional careers. These are professional journalists who live, sleep, eat and breathe their branch of journalism their entire lives. I am uncertain how the economics of being a journalist for an online magazine such as The Inquirer or The Register works, but in my understanding, with only a few exceptions, most “staff” at these online magazines have day jobs. Their reporting is something done on the side for whatever reasons matter to them. (Money, the desire to get published, a desire to inform people about whatever they have information about.) Charlie has stated in this article that he has some fairly extensive academic and professional experience, and I am assuming at least one job-worthy degree to back that up. While I admit it is an assumption to on my part that Charlie makes use of that (probably very expensive) education in a nice environment that provides him with a steady, (and I hope substantial) paycheque. It thus follows from that assumption that he writes for the Inq in his “spare time,” and does his investigation and checking with various sources on a similar schedule. Given his stated academic and professional experience, it seems to me that there would have been a lot of opportunity “network” with people who now work for semiconductor companies of various sorts. Given his nearly exclusive reporting on nVidia, ATI and AMD, one could make a reasonable assumption that he “knows people” inside one or more of those organizations. That all said, there is thus at least one perfectly logical explanation why someone like Charlie could be writing for the Inq, and focusing almost exclusively on a narrow group of companies: he has some inside “poop,” and enough other things in his life to not write about everything else too. As to the “hate” his articles direct towards nVidia, I ask you: please, try to deal with that company as something other than a consumer before passing judgment. They are dicks. Charlie, as a conclusion to this, please consider writing a brief “hi, I’m Charlie, and here’s why I write what I write at the Inq” article. It will never shut up the hardcore fanbois, but I am very curious to know if my wild guesses above are right! Thank you once more for your excellent article, I only which they published before I purchased my latest “gaming” notebook. I am rather dubious about the life expectancy of something with an 8600M… Keep ‘em coming, sir.
Will
Tags: Nvidia
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haha, I ain't Drashek!
Sommat funny happening, you can put in linebraks, divide stuff into paragrpahs, and the inq's comment system munges it into a wall of text- part of the recent changes mebbe?
Inquirer's fail comment system does not recognise line breaks. Paragraphs unpossible.
Besides, since when do YOU get to complain about things being hard to read? That's like a singularity calling a kettle black.
Comment too long. Did not read.
PARAGRAPHS!!
Ahh what a waste of bytes.....
waste of epaper.
...
Somebody make this a better place..
Everybody here is just fighting for no reason..
Charlies Angles , Charlie Fanboys
Ewaste....
somebody(eeekk Editors) recycle this article space...
mohnkhan
"It would make sense litigating if the news went mainstream and the allegations were correct"
should be
"it would make sense litigating if the news went very mainstream and the allegations WERE'NT correct"
Way to make myself look more of a tit than usual :)
At first, it seems a forgone conclusion that "if this wasn't true, they'd sue", but if you think about it tactically from a PR POV for a minute, that doesn't hold.
Ok, we have two alternatives- it's true, or it's bollocks, with me so far?
Your average mainstream punter doesn't read the Inq. They read the BBC website, or something. Hell, they don't even read Gizmondo and other slightly luvvie-friendly psuedo-tech sites.
So, assuming it's untrue for a minute (control yourselves, irrational flamers), the average punter is in complete ignorance. If you were damage control PR, right now, you'd want to keep it this way. If you sued, suddenly, you have a big story. It goes from "angry ranting little man says there's a problem with some computer thing" which average people don't give a monkey dump about.. to "Corporation sues fearless battling journalist to keep him quiet". We've seen how well this played out for Apple and similar. Suddenly, the Cassandras of the mainstream press, the eejits who write those excellently-researched tech columns in things like the Torygraph will have some material in a slow week. From an NVidia PR point of view, even if you haven't done anything wrong, suddenly you look dreadful. You might have just tried to stop defamatory articles based on a false premise, but actually, most people would never have read the articles in the first place. From a "stopping people getting scared about using your products" POV, setting the land sharks on Charlie or the Inq is just ensuring coverage. This is the worst possible thing if he's talking bollocks.
Of course, the other alternative, that he's right.. Well, suing him would be daft, as truth is an absolute defence to defamation of various kinds in most sane countries (and a few less sane ones.
Thus, it strikes me as suing would currently be PR fail either way. It would make sense litigating if the news went mainstream and the allegations were correct, but while it's not really talked about much outside the properllerhead sector, it'd make sense to sit tight either way.
Oh yes, and I also think it's a pretty clear sign of a slow news week when you publish a comment essentially saying "OOH UR SO BRILLIANT LOL" as news. 'Tis weaksauce, to be sure. Don't you lovely Inqspots have some much stronger sauce waiting at various Christmas parties? Get on it :)
On any given topic, a journalist may be right or wrong.
However, when you create articles that focuses on a company's inability to correctly make a product, fill in legal paperword or acknowledge potentially serious production issues (and, in so doing, giving customers a chance to protect themselves)...
...then you have to expect inaccuracies in the story will be followed by a writ.
No writ means that these stories are substantially true.
Can everyone move away from the 'poor multi-billion dollar victim being slapped for its lunch money' mentality and, instead, believe that factual issues will be challenged by corporates while (largely) only the truth remains on The Inquirer.
"As long as we make "Charlie" the focus of these articles, we never will obtain the truth. The subject is "Defective NVIDIA Parts & How They Handled it.""
No. The article to which we are responding is "Comment o't'Week".
As long as we make "Charlie" the focus of these articles, we never will obtain the truth. The subject is "Defective NVIDIA Parts & How They Handled it."
I have yet to see a significant rebuttal of his facts. I couldn't care less about his personality, intelligence, or character. Discussions of these things are entirely beside the point. NVIDIA is a poster child for Corporate Greed in Society, but that, too is beside the point. What is wrong with the product, and how do they handle it. That is the point.
By they way, has your fan ever heard of a paragraph?
Is Charlie always right?
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/019/1018019/nvidia-270-290-deep-trouble
This article states the GX2 part of the GTX280/260 is dead.
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/104/1050104/gtx-295-unleashed-today
This article states otherwise.
I'm well aware there are difficulties in production but it clearly debunks the article stating that the GX2 is dead, as that is what the GTX295 is (effectively - same design as the 9800GX2).
I am not an NV fanboi (hate that friggin term. My dads pc which i ordered and built has a beautiful 4870 Gainward GS inside and though i've yet to test it on games for him ;) I know it'll perform very well.
I like the products from both camps but neither are particularly perfect. My 216 BFG OCX Maxcore is a work of art. It's not as powerful as the 4870X2 but it's quiet and efficient.
The problem with Charlie's articles is he does go out of his way to dish dirt on NV.
Fair enough but you need someone else on the INQ staff to dig deeper into other companies as i am pretty sure companies as large as NV and AMD/ATI are purely market driven capatalist numb nuts that employ devious tactics.
I do not refute NV are bastards but they DO make some nifty products (well maybe their partners do).
Again, i state, i am not a fanboi. I love the 4800 series and i wish AMD could make a processor that matches Intel. But Charlie seems to 'hate' NV and you cannot make faultless journalism from that standpoint.
But still, keep digging as it IS informative if somewhat spiteful.
Investigative journalism -- seems that those fracking fanbois never heard of it. Not surprising since they are nothing more than a bunch of greenhorns.
I guess that most of them must be from the USA, the country which gave us the Fox News.
dont let the feckers grind you down
If it wasn't then I'd guess he or The Inq would have been sued and printed some apologies by now.
Charlie, nice work, really enjoyed the 3-piece article a while back, plus the newer article with the mass spectrometry results. And most tech university's have these machines so it's not that hard to get access (I would estimate).
The main question we need answered is: Who paid for the sawn up Mac book?
Was it yourselves, ATI or someone else?
I've scorned Charlie on more than one occasion, but I must say his latest articles have been pretty damn thorough. So congrats, Charlie, on a job well done.
To anyone who's read his articles regularly, it is clear that he went into this investigation with his mind already made up - that nVidia is the big green devil. His earlier articles were almost entirely based on conjecture, and he assumed the absolute worst from this company from the very start, and at every turn. It was, quite plainly, a shameful spectacle.
So seriously Mr. Demerjian, the next time you begin a personal crusade, please go straight to the science (we know you're capable of it), and skip the hatred and hyperbole.
...and disregard the rest.
Most people have little clue and don't want to be confused with facts.
I think that the one thing that seems to be missed in the discussions of "for" or "against" Charlie is the process of what he does. He is not just some random blogger posting on the web. He's not just blowing off about his opinion. He's something of a journalist. The expectations that he have "in depth" knowledge to be able to speak on a subject misses the point of most all journalism that is good in this world. Journalists ask the professionals, engineers, and others who are FULL-TIME PAID professionals in the field for their opinion, their thoughts, and a full explanation of the process, procedure, materials, etc.
Unfortunately, in this business most of those professionals and engineers do not wish to be named for fear of being fired for talking to Charlie.
So just maybe when you read another one of his articles you might think of the fact that he's talked to a bunch of different people at different companies, universities, etc. and has combined that knowledge, information and opinion into something somewhat readable - for you- the consumer, purchaser and user. Why? Maybe because he is one of you - a purchaser, user and consumer of the SAME equipment that you're buying and maybe, just maybe, he's a real old fashioned journalist.
I think there are some lessons here:
1)People seem to be either for Charlie, or against him. Those who are against him also seem to be against anyone who is for him.
2)Proof read your comments. A quick 5-minute break in between working on a sendmail config and an apache config, and suddenly your comments end up as an article. Oh, how I now wish I had done little things like proof read, and add paragraph markers. Laughing stock of the office! (My mates spotted it was me right off.) How embarrassing.
3)ATI/nVidia arguments are so contentious they seem to override the internet tendency towards pedantry. The argument thus followed to this "article," rather than the expected flames pointing my horrible linguistic mistakes.
4) It's 9:00am, I need some coffee, and my random comment got published as an article on the Inq so...
IT MUST BE A FRIDAY!
Also: how can you not be a fan of Charlie? He's the internet embodiment of a kid sitting around poking a wasp's nest with a stick. He publishes an article, and the Internet implodes with hate. It's hilarious, doubly when he's right.
Have a good weekend, all.
Go Charlie! I love the reports and use of electron micro is just cool.
I used nVidia till 9700pro came out of AMD and we all know what happen then and I still wonder why some nVidians were adamant that the "leafblower 5800" and its brethren were better than 9700pro or 9800xt for that matter? Now I got a HD4670 (cus it was £60 for my AMD64 X2 (s939) and its good.
Leave Charlie alone you sadO's.
"If Charlie didn't lie, use half-truths, and tenuous evidence and make illogical leaps he'd be a much better journalist. As it is he just looks like a spoilt kiddie with a fanboi hatred of all things nvidia.
posted by : Graeme, 19 December 2008"
His 'tenuous evidence' and his 'half-truths' have pretty much always ended up to be bang on. I've lost count of the number of articles I've read where Charlie has written what seems like pure speculation - only to find out that it's actually, fairly much gospel.
If our great Charlie is making guesses and 'illogical leaps', then he does it with what seems to be a good deal of insider knowledge, not to mention enough pure knowledge in his field to make these links before anyone else has even thought about making a press release.
I have held off buying a recent graphics card due to Charlie's writings. While I am holding off - my friends are seeing the little demons of failure trouncing all over their shiny nVidia purchases.
Good reporting is where you find it, or something.
Charlie FTW!
Do we really need to see anonymous fanmail being posted as articles? Don't you have anything better to post than this? At the very least post only the fanmail of people with *some* noteriety.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OBlgSz8sSM
"Ouch, Charlie!"
Seriously though, in my experience a guy who sticks to his guns and who has the audacity to be correct more often than not is never popular among the Plebs.
Bashing the messenger doesn't change reality. Obviously Nvidia has been having production issues for some time and has denied them to save money on warranty and to escape embarrassment for their shoddy products. Having used both Nvidia and ATI products, I have no love for either company.
That doesn't change the fact that Charlie went above and beyond to get to the truth that Nvidia does not want the world to know. Bashing Charlie for excellent investigative reporting is not going to make bad Nvidia products good, so it's time for some people to BUY A CLUE.
That being said, I would like to see Charlie or someone else expose the numerous defective Asus mobos that have been pumped out the door for years. Yes some websites have acknowledged these defective products, but Asus has never accepted responsibility for the crap they have shipped. They deny everything and just keep cranking "new, improved crap" out the door. It's criminal in most countries. Maybe not in Taiwan, but it should be.
"Charlie has stated in this article that he has some fairly extensive academic and professional experience"
Yeah, it's bullshit. Read his article about the end of graphics cards for example. He just parrots his misunderstanding of what other people tell him. That's not to say that some of his articles might contain some accurate statements [a lot don't however], but you're the fool if you think he understands more than 5% of what he parrots, and a complete buffoon if you think he understands tech any deeper than the basic, layman stuff he writes.
As for his "journalistic credentials", I'm not sure whether he's even got the basic requirement of alcohol addiction or has ever been a PR bunny, let alone whether he witters on about the novel he's written.
If Charlie didn't lie, use half-truths, and tenuous evidence and make illogical leaps he'd be a much better journalist. As it is he just looks like a spoilt kiddie with a fanboi hatred of all things nvidia.
I have been reading INQ for a while and i like nothing more than to hear about ati/AMD and Nvidia, Charlie's articles have always given good food for thought and i've loved reading about Nvidia's downfall and the Rise of AMD/ATI's new kit. So far through it all i would have to say, although Charlie has his doubters he seems to have always been one thing,
Correct!
Keep it coming dude.