How Paypal shafted me left, right and centre

You can only fight crime with crime not with justice?!?

And Paypal is good for...???

I use PayPal but I also always use a Credit Card to fund the transaction. I therefore have the Credit Card company responsible for items over £100. However this will change in July when I will be expected to pay a massive surcharge for using a PayPal Credit Card on PayPal. At that point I will stop using PayPal and if the Seller only accepts PayPal then he will also loose my business.

sadly this is common. while ebay and paypal have all the protection in the world for buyers, they routinely sc3w individual sellers. i lost 400$ to paypal after refunding a buyer who bought (you guessed it) a laptop from me, then proceeded to send me back an empty box, and then he filed a paypal claim stating that item was wrong and he had proof that he shipped it back. he gave them the tracking number, they deducted 400$ from my account, and i was out a laptop and the cash.

sue them :)

Had the same kind of thing happen with me. Someone bought a PC off me using some one elses Paypal account that they had gained access to. 
Paypal took the £250 back out of my account and i was left out of pocket. Phoned them up loads of times but did not help, just wasted more money on phone calls!

PAYPAL IS NOT SAFE. 

They advertise it as safe, but when it happens the SELLER GETS F*CKED.

This is how I see it... Paypal have be defrauded of money. It is therefore Paypal's fault they are out of pocket. But because that's not the way they see it, they want it back from you, even though, presumably you sent a laptop. 

It was paypal who chose to put your balance in -£700 - they have unlawfully taken money from your account, and have no right to take it back from you. 

Normally if you ignore paypal + debt collection company long enough they will stop contacting you. 

You should write to debt collection company (and paypal) stating crime ref number, stating they have unlawfully put your account in negative balance, and any further contact must be by letter only, and any further contact by phone will be considered harrassment. It is against the law to pursue a debt that is "in dispute" which is currently the situation, and you can report them (paypal and debt collection company) to the financial ombudsmen for this. 

You should be able to find guidance on this paypalsucks, money saving expert, etc. 

Surely paypal closing the account means the account (and debt) is now null and void? 

PS - this happened to me and it's been about 6 months and I've had no further contact from paypal or debt collection company (after sending them a number of letters).

is this for real... I closed 1 of my paypal accounts having two cause paypal caused me to much trouble... was thinking about closing another one.

Paypal does make online payments very easy however I have developed a procedure which is PAYPAL PROOF.

1. All payments made by me through PAYPAL are with my Credit Card NOT a PAYPAL issued credit card. If I have a dispute with a seller a simply dispute it through my credit card and reimbursement is ALWAYS made. I have a Brish Air Visa card that also reimburses for shipping and return shipping the defective mercahndise! Let me tell you I've had several fraudulaent sellers jump off the deep end over that little convenience. Sucks to be them. 

2. Any payments to me are paid ONLY by US Postal money order. When that payment is processed by the Post Office it is final. Then I send Items out. The US Postal Service has thei great investigative arm called the Postal Inspectors office and they have powers of arrest. Again I do not accept payment through PAYPAL. Paypal is just an enabler.

Have you tried making calls to the Better Business Bureau and to the California State Attorney General's office.

Paypal/Ebay have to know that a class-action suit is brewing on their behavior so they might be willing to do what is "right" if there is a recorded complaint with the judicial system. 

Maybe it'll help, maybe it won't but companies usually listen to recorded complaints...

They did more or less the same thing to me. I sold a couple of old console games on Ebay. The buyer then reported me for none delivery despite me being able to prove by Royal Mail track and trace that the buyer had signed for the games. Paypal then freeze my account and ask me for the money. I contact the police who then give the buyer a good ticking off for attempting fraud. Paypal leave my account frozen despite several emails and phone calls. Then they put my balance to -£9 (a figure I assume they just plucked out of the air!) I then decide sod it, I'll pay the £9 just to get the use of my account back but then find out that it is frozen from me being able to put money in! Another email later (and 5 days for a reply) and they tell me they agree this policy is stupid and the only thing I can do is convert the £9 into USD and post a cheque to the united states where they will then (hopefully) be able to pay it into my account and I can use it again. To be honest I wasn't going to do this on principal that it's just plain stupid and a waste of my time and money, not to mention I shouldn't be doing it anyway. Now the account is completely blocked and my account and email address are "blacklisted" so I can't get a new one. I've emailed them one more time to be told that their staff agree that the situation is stupid and wrong and totally unfair but they "can't" do anything about it. I hate paypal and their stupid rules and completely blind methods of enforcing them. I'm sure there are many others in our situation and something should really be done!

I had similar issue with PayPal customer support, they simply refused to do anything other than just want your money
I agree with dms05's post, use your credit card, they provide much better protection and support then PayPal

this situatioin will only improve once there is a credible alternative to ebay/paypal... come on Google...

One time Retailer would not cash my check(Paypal option) & insisted upon second Paypal payment. then sent check back & never sent item. Then of all things replacement check cleared bank & retailer told me its too late to expect item sent. Paypal did nothing to rectify situation.
most items paypal is used for are defective, out of date or very if fie item every arrives. IT BIG GYP COMPANY. They have $66 of mine on MY account & won't use it for payments of any kind, it just sits there. So its: Go Figure & Purchasers are: No Brainer.
STeWie drashek

I get several spoofed eBay or PaPpal emails a week. I always forward them to the company, but this goes to show that in addition to being the #1 target for fraud on the Net, they are also the #1 incompetent anal sphincters...or is that #2, behind Microsoft?

I have the same issue, and i am refusing to pay.

Item was sent, buyer said they never recieived it. They never paid for insurance or tracking, so i refuse to refund them.

Paypal refunded them, and we will never settle the account, as we have proof of postage, naturally without tracking number as they wanted el-cheapo postage.

We do get alot of emails though!!!

Use my other paypal account now!

http://www.paypalsucks.com/
Similar stories here.
Samething happened to me, but was able to stop the product from shipping.

This happend to me about 2 months ago someone hacked my account and tried to buy a £350 table & chairs for a dinet.

I have no idea how they got my password no fake e-mails, anti virus, 2 firewalls (1 hardware 1 software), spy-bot scan every week, spyware blaster.

Anyways Paypal was the other way round and caught that person and it took 1 month to sort it out due to there stupid rules of how to remove the block.

I seriously believe to this day they gave my details away I am not so dumb to click on a fake e-mail I don't even get mail from them. Only payment confirmations or money recieved. But on to the situation at hand take it to court don't pay up threaten them with legal action.

Sooner or later the world will realise that no matter how solid the encryption, there is only so far you can go with putting your money into the hands of people you can't see without getting shafted.

Companies should not promise a 'safe' service if it has blatant flaws in its system. Paypal is a step away from contactless payment systems, its asking for trouble.

I blame Microsoft...

While Paypal say that my case is closed, sitting on their desk is a Fax from Adobe fraud agency saying that the new cs3 that was sold to me for several hundred dollers on Ebay, is indead a pirated copy, they (Paypal) say that the seller did nothing wrong, even though they were selling multiple copies of fake cs3 and have ceased traiding, Im sure other people must have also bought and eventually tried to get their money back from Paypal, I can not be the only one to have contacted them about this fraudulent seller.
I have stopped using Ebay now and I am getting the impression that so are a lot of others, Good, may they crash and burn. Dave.

.....why? If I buy something online and they wont accept MC, Visa, AE etc.... straight through their website, then I dont order from them. If a business isnt setup to accept credit cards, then that should be enough to tell you to avoid them, that its not a business, but somebody selling crap out of their house.... THATS not a business! I am NOT going to give any 3rd party any of my financial information. If its an individual selling, then do as the previous poster suggested and use a U.S. Postal order (or equivalent) so you have some sort of protection that way. How can you be surprised that you give some 3rd party access to your financial info, and something bad happened?

Happened to me too... enough of us around!

For me though I got a nice tax break from it since it was a business write-off!

The best (worst?) part was I sent partial payment... took screenshots proving I sent it... they claimed they never received it and charged me the full price again. According to them my screenshots were faked.

And to think, in Australia eBay (ebait?) was trying to make PayPal the ONLY accepted form of payment.

Old time Inq writer 'Spode' had a similar problem to you. He managed to sort the problem by getting a direct land line to a London paypal number, without any queuing the call attendant sorted out his blocked 'money laundering' account instantly. It's worth a try.

www.saynoto0870.com

Good luck.

Paypal, much like eBay, faces continuing backlash on the basic issue of "is this generally trusted". Sellers no longer accepting Paypal will clearly give the impression that it isn't.
I've made about 40 transactions over the years but fed up with all the anecdotal and widespread reports of fraud I just closed my account (you have to click through 4 screens clicking Continue while they try to talk you out.) 
If enough people give their feedback this way, maybe Paypal will be motivated to change.

they call paypal : "F*** U PAL" for nothing anymore

stop using them asap.. and why can't are dumb fucking government be more like the australians gov who are protesting against ebay+paypal monopoly bs! 

get these morrons out of here.. ebay needs some more flakking for there dirty games.

Where Paypal went wrong was #9. Not having any way to call off their debt collection harassment due to an ongoing police investigation is wrong and could land them in hot water.

Where the customer went wrong was #12. Ignoring the advice of the police in a police investigation. Enough said. See how cooperative the police will be once you fess up.

Paypal always dumps responsibility for everything on the seller, never itself or the buyer.

That's the risk you take when you accept Paypal payments. As far as I can see there isn't much you can do but repay the amount. Hopefully someone with legal knowledge can comment, but it seems to me that Paypal has the law on its side here. I doubt "The police told me not to pay it back" will stand as much of a defense.


Two comments.

1. Paypal is a US company, and as such couldn't care less about primitive furrin countries and their so-called "justice systems". Only courts in the USA have any readl jurisdiction.

2. Every time I hear a sad story like this, I congratulate myself once more for having decided years ago not to deal with Paypal. The possibility of exactly the kind of trouble so graphically described in this article was what decided me to pass. 

"Who ya gonna believe - your own common sense, or my lyin' salesforce?"

Why didn't you phone Paypal or ask the Police to do so?

The Police must have a regular contact with Paypal, I would have asked to be put in touch with the Police officer or department that deals with them.


also lost 500 pounds on pay pal, stopped using it that day. never happier. the thing that irritates me is how some online retailers push the Pay Pal account so much

The amusing thing is that in the US its illegal for a collection agency to call your friends or relatives other than to obtain contact information. So here paypal/collection agency could be sued for harassment and you would be likely to get more then your 700 back.

Have noticed quite a few fraudulent listings on ebay, if you try to report them, its very difficult. Guess they only care about getting there listing fees.

Paypal used to be an option on ebay but now you must have it as one of your payments i have recently listed an item stating i will not take paypal and it was removed because i can not say i will not take a payment that i selected ,this is the good part i never selected it ebay force it on you knowing the can scr*w more money out of you .Buyers can also use it for fraud it dont matter how much proof of an item being sent and recieved you have paypal will still pay a buyer that claims they never received the item leaving you shafted .

It happened to me last year, but not like you. I purchased an item from an online retailer. Rather then taking the money from my credit card which is my primary payment, they took it from my bank account. So I got screwed out of $70 and then another $20 for my accounts overdraft charges. Then came the phone calls. What ended up happening after all this was my account got froze and after a number of talks and emails they won't fix it cause it was my fault even though telling them they didn't use my primary payment method! So I don't use PayPal anymore even though I had an account with them for 7 years.

There are enough of us around that this has happened to that we need to band together and start a damned riot at the Paypal headquarters. Emails and phone calls only go so far. Baseball bats can get a lot accomplished if you swing them in the right direction.

You coming? I'll bring the molotov cocktails.

In my opinion I think the only way to get eBay to listen and maybe even change “stuffing PayPal down your throat” rule is to do a WAR-cry/uprising and there is two way to do so.

First way is to boycott eBay and PayPal (in every participants relevant country that eBay is available in) and if you really need to Buy/Sell then look elsewhere, sorely then eBay ‘seeing as there profits and shares dropping’ would turn there heads and investigate and listen to the people in order to resolve the PayPal issues.


Second way, ‘this may get you banned as you may be fighting with fire’ is to bombard eBays and PAYPAL.com contact us/support team with emails stating your problem(s) that you had with PayPal and or just saying what you think of PayPal and your opinion to improve it (do try to keep it clean, then again its up to you) and they should as they would have no other choice but to listen to the users.


Its only logics, what happens when leaders go to WAR or introduce thing that people (countrymen) disagree with, they protest and in most cases there cries are heard


I hope you (those that are not happy with PayPal) decide to carryout one of the above options preferably the first one, it’s all down to how much you are willing to do to change PayPal, “warriors be brave and not cowardly”

1) If you MUST use paypal to pay you might be OK. NEVER NEVER use paypal to receive funds (i.e. as a seller). If they decide to just keep your money (as they often do for no good reason - google 'paypal froze my account' ) , your life will become miserable as many many people have discovered. Personally I would never touch a paypal transaction.

2) If it's too late and they've already screwed you, you better hope the relevant watchdog in your country is worth something. I contacted the financial services authority in the UK. They got my money back in one month rather than the threatened six.

Please see www.tinyurl.com/ebayadvice for comprehensive advice on the Ombudsman and court options available to you for eBay or PayPal related complaints.