- Tuesday, 9 February 2010
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Don't buy the house, buy the neighbourhood - Russian proverb
Nvidia plays the meltdown blame game
NVIDIA'S STOCK TOOK a long overdue beating the other day, more because Wall Street is collectively horrified that it has been lied to than any fundamentals that are public. That said, the 8K keeps up the firm's tradition of honesty and integrity.
The root of the problem is, so far, HP notebooks, but likely others. You can see the HP page here, and at least one lawsuit about the same thing here. No mention of this in the Nvidia statement though. Why would they? If you look at what Nvidia says, it isn't their fault, it is those damn suppliers.
The official line is: "While we have not been able to determine a root cause for these failures, testing suggests a weak material set of die/package combination, system thermal management designs, and customer use patterns are contributing factors". Parsing that, you see that they are blaming fabs and packaging suppliers first, OEMs second, and those damn users third, but they have no fault here, NV can do no wrong.
This is really dangerous for three reasons: they are annoying suppliers, annoying OEMs and annoying users. Last we checked, they need all three to remain in business.
The weak die/packaging excuse doesn't wash at all. Nvidia is blaming TSMC behind the scenes, trashing them pretty hard through 'unofficial' channels to deflect blame. They are likely to be doing the same to packaging suppliers as well, and others. The reason this doesn't wash is that there are only a handful of suppliers in each of these fields.
If they had a problem with Nvidia, there would be problems with other companies. ATI, Altera and dozens of others, would have chips crapping out left and right, especially designs where they are meant to run 24/7 like embedded parts. You would see an industry rife with failures and warning like the bad caps problem of a few years ago.
You simply aren't seeing that. Period. No warning from others, no recalls, no TSMC warnings, no nothing. This is a sham to deflect blame from Nvidia, they don't want to dent their shiny image, much less slow down the 'can of whoop-ass' opening. I am calling bullshit on the supplier-blaming problem.
Suppliers are a problem for Nvidia though, at least they are now. Trashing your suppliers like this is a dangerous thing to do, Nvidia needs them more than they need Nvidia. Can you imagine the scene at the next TSMC planning meeting where they are discussing who gets what allocation on the next tight process, and how much they pay?
TSMC Planner 1: How many wafers do we allocate for Nvidia a
month?
TSMC Planner 2: The 40nm process is looking tight at first, do
you agree?
TSMC Planner 1: Yeah, really tight.
TSMC Planner 2: Remember that time when NV was calling us [male
rooster euphemism][oral suction euphemism]s to anyone who would listen? Wasn't
that a fun time.
TSMC Planner 1: So 4 then?
TSMC Planner 2: 4K? That seems high.
TSMC Planner 1: No, 4.
Blaming your suppliers publicly is bad. When it isn't their fault, it is worse. Doing so in the sleazy backhanded ways that Nvidia knows so well is tantamount to corporate suicide. Suppliers will find a way to make you pay, and they will get the knife in somehow. Nvidia being bossy and arrogant only makes the situation more enjoyable for them. Look for this PR blunder to have massive long-term effects that manifest themselves in dropped margins, critical parts shortages, and missed deadlines. Bad move #1.
Bad move #2 is blaming the OEMs, this is done with the subtle phrase "system thermal management designs" in the 8K. This is engineering code for, "we didn't do anything wrong, those nitwits at HP did". It works like this, Nvidia makes a part and it has a variety of constraints it is meant to be used within. Things like power draw, minimum and maximum temperature, and other things.
NV specs these things, and HP makes a notebook to the specs that NV gives them, a process that happens long before the chips come out of the fabs in any decent volume. If the chips are within the promised specs, thing go well. If they are not, there are some tweaks you can pull, but if they are too far out of spec, you are basically screwed.
Now this assumes both sides are honest, and people are trying to solve problems, not deflect blame. Nvidia is really good at the latter, bad at the former. They also can't make a chip that isn't a blast furnace. Most of their recent woes, including the massively delayed current round of MCPs, is down to out of control thermals, just like the last round.
How do you fix a systemic design problem in silicon on a time scale that doesn't sink an entire season's notebook sales? Easy, you fudge the spec sheet. If you have a TDP of 20W for a part, and it is coming in at 25W from the fab, you can lower the speed or change what TDP means. If you promised HP a chipset that has an 800FSB and it can only hit 667, well, that is problematic. If you give them a chipset with a 20W TDP, and the definition of TDP changed between the last generation and this one, well, "that is how we do it now".
If it is HP incompetence as Nvidia is stating, then it would simply be a ca se of a line or two of notebooks that went bad. HP system engineering is one of the very best in the industry, period, subject to management whims. This is not to say they can't screw up, they most definitely can, but it is pretty rare on anything major. HP does seem to have QC process engineering down well.
Does this mean they are perfect? No, not even close. Have they screwed up on a notebook? Sure, probably several here and there over the past few years. If you look at the HP page, once again here, you will see there are 24 models affected. I can believe there are one, two, maybe four screwups, but 24 model lines all with the same problem? All with cooling related failures? All with cooling related video failures? All with cooling related video failures on Nvidia parts?
What NV is doing is smearing the good name of HP and it's engineers here. There is no way in hell that HP totally botched every Nvidia based notebook for a generation in the same way. Not a chance. This is once again a smear job, and it will once again come back to bite Nvidia in the bottom line, give it time. Companies like this have long memories. The only thing you can say from this is that it is not HP's fault.
Well, actually, you can say more. If HP specced cooling for a theoretical 20W, and the Nvidia chip puts out more than 20W, what happens is you get more heat in the system than you can get rid of, and temperatures slowly climb. It will either keep climbing, or level off, but likely it is out of the thermal bounds set by Nvidia. The system will get really hot or simply crash.
The problem? This puts them out of the thermal tolerances for the packaging. That is OK for short periods, but repeatedly staying above the limits causes the packaging material to degrade prematurely. Worse yet, repeated heating and cooling caused by the laptops heating up and then crashing, then being left off for a bit to cool and 'work again', is horrible for the packaging. This is how solder joints and bumps crack, and substrate warps. Coupled with weakened materials from overheating, and you have dead GPUs.
This is hugely unlikely to be a HP problem, or a substrate problem. It is most likely a bad engineering design decision that Nvidia tried to sweep under the rug. Sometimes it works, other times it doesn't. This time is an 'other', and companies like TSMC and HP don't like being publicly crucified for Nvidia's screwups. They really don't like it.
The third bad move is 'customer use patterns': so, it isn't our fault, it is those crazy kids! A Scooby Doo villain couldn't have said it better after a failed whoop-ass attempt. From the look of things, the customers are doing things like turning on and off laptops, something likely unanticipated by Nvidia product planners. I mean who does that?
Blaming customers would be bad move number three, but I doubt most of them will realise it is Nvidia's fault, they will blame HP or the host of other OEMs that haven't been named yet. Either way, if you take bad move #2 into account, if I were an OEM, I would tell everyone calling in for warranty support unequivocally that it is Nvidia's fault for supplying bum chips. In this case, it wouldn't be deflecting blame.
In any case, the 'crazy kids' blame game is pointless and will only hurt Nvidia if people hear it. They likely won't, but there is no upside unless they think analysts are several steps dumber than a slow sheep.
In the end, the whole thing can be summed up by bad engineering, covering your ass, and hoping it blows over. Nvidia corporate messaging is pretty much incompetent, more driven by the fact that they are pawns of people higher up the food chain than anything else, and they only have one tool, a hammer.
When something goes wrong, they don't know how to solve problems, only hit things. This situation was dealt with by surprising Wall Street with a collective kick in the hedge funds. There was no explanation, no softening of the blow, and no word to the press, just a 'Surprise, we are tanking' governmental form, followed by stonewalling and finger pointing at blameless people.
Botched doesn't begin to describe this response, but it is a good start. They utterly flunked Crisis Management 101. Given the last sentence of the 8K, " There can be no assurance that we will not discover defects in other MCP or GPU products," this is far from over. In fact, we know it is; there are many more lines and products affected.
Now that you know about how the Nvidia parts failed leading to the massive loss, plummeting stock, and management fast-talking, what everyone wants to figure out is where the buck stops. That is not a simple question, but several industry insiders have told us the same story, it all depends on who got burned, and how big they are.
The one we know about is HP, here and here, but it is far from over. Nvidia is chiming in now because it is very likely they are footing the bill for the class action settlement, or at least a very large chunk of it. When they gave the prescient advice that, "There can be no assurance that we will not discover defects in other MCP or GPU products", they aren't joking, this problem hasn't cropped up in desktop parts yet, but it most assuredly will. We are getting reports of other afflicted items, but it is premature to name them.
So, basically, Nvidia totally screwed up, and is blaming everyone but the one company they should, itself. The OEMs know it, consumers know it, suppliers know it, and since the "OMFG, our hair is on fire" performance of last week, just about the entire world knows about it. Everyone who has one of these parts will be seeking restitution, just watch the bills mount now that word has spread.
But that brings up the costs and payments. Nvidia took a $150-200 million hit initially over this, but what does that cover? Looking at Dell's web site, going from an integrated GPU to an external Nvidia GPU is either a $50 or $130 upgrade, maybe more on a low volume gaming part. That is what Dell sells the module for, plus profit and overhead. The chips that Nvidia sells, minus GDDR memory, construction etc, are probably in the $10-40 range.
If you look at that, there are three million or so parts affected, and can likely be fixed by swapping out an PCIe card. With chipsets, well, things get interesting , they are soldered to the mobo, as are many CPUs, especially in thinner notebooks. In this case, the replacement means a new mobo minimum, possibly a CPU thrown in for good measure.
Then there is the cost of fielding the support call, not a trivial matter for a dead notebook. Shipping the part back to the depot, labour to replace the mobo, and shipping it back as well. Added staffing to handle the returns of large portions of 24 notebook lines adds to the bottom line as well.
That leads to intangibles like customer ill will, lost productivity, and the odd executive who gets a bum laptop for their kids. You can't put a dollar value on these, but they do have an effect, much of Dell's current woes are due to treating customers like dirt three-five years ago.
So, once again, who pays for all of these costs? That is an unequivocal "it depends". Depends on how contracts are written, how much leverage the OEMs have, and how much good will Nvidia has built up.
On one side, you have Dell, one-time masters of the supply chain, and squeezers of every penny they can get. Industry insiders tell us that Dell will be billing Nvidia for everything, from bad GPUs, mobos, replacement costs, help desk, lawyers, and every truck roll needed to fix something in the field. If Nvidia wriggles out of paying for something, they will pay for it in other ways.
HP is a little more flexible, but since Nvidia has been effectively blaming their engineering for it, I can see how they would lean a bit more toward the " right royal bastard" side of things. They are close to Dell in what they will charge, but may let some minor things slide.
As you move down the food chain to smaller people mobo makers, Tier 2 computer makers, and even little shops, NV will disclaim more and more. Asus and Gigabyte will likely not get everything covered, not even close. Smaller board makers might get credit for the cost of MCPs and GPUs.
Unhappiness will abound. They will all get their pound of flesh, it may just take a bit of time. Lawsuits seem to have forced disclosure, and NV is still trying to spin, minimize the downside, and point fingers. This, however, is far from over. Look for desktops to be affected as well as discrete GPUs before this is over, most of them use the same ICs as the mobile parts.
There seem to be two currently-affected products, the low-end and the mid-range parts of the last generation. Depending on the failure rate, Nvidia could be looking to eat the majority of a generation's products plus the cost of things they were soldered to, and the tech school dropout used to screw new parts in.
This will be very ugly before it is done, very very ugly. Finger pointing early on and the blame game will only harden resolve on the other side, and add to costs. There go their cash reserves, we guess. It couldn't come at a worse time. Then again, doing everything wrong does have a cost. µ
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If HP has such great engineers, why didn't they test the chip before building 24 products around it?
Maybe Nvidia tanking has an upside...with a good stock price and large reserves of cash Nvidia can hardly be classified as a good candidate for a takeover or buyout. However, in a few months that could change. Nvidia needs a parent company or partner (preferably with an x86 license) to stay afloat long term. And the lucky new owner may want to clear the managerial decks from the sound of things. It will be interesting to watch.
Anybody know why HP's the only one getting sued over this (as opposed to Dell or anybody else reselling the 8-series)?
This is bigger than HP. There are pages and pages of blogs indicating Dell nVidia failures between 17 and 18 months. If there's not a recall, there ought to be a class action lawsuit.
1) Do you really need to go on and on and on stating the same thing over and over again? This article could have been 3 paragraphs instead of 3 pages.

2) Your link to HP is a blank page.

3) The HP lawsuit is from 2006...and relates to NV3x.
Somebody got a list?
After being screwed over on a 680i + 8800GT SLI I am hoping that hte big player rip NVidia to pieces. They deserve it for screwing with their customers.
Does this problem affect the 8600M GT?
I have been having freezing issues with my Macbook Pro for a few months now... I heard it was just the 8500 parts. I hope that is the case because it'll be tough to get Apple to recognize a problem with their machines, even if it is someone else's fault.
Maybe these rumours are spread by companies that have NO use for PhysX chip? 8500 mobile chip from several years ago to present.

PhysX is obviously going to put Nvidia in Way too high number score to compeat with, so little guys are trying to lilliputian Nvidia done & out completely from business, before all those cheapo inferior desgins become obviously of ancient era & NOT of value today.

Lets take AMD announced R.S/D.8800 chipset, those arn't standard AMD chipset numbers like 580,680, 780 & now should not next be 880. Instead we see reference number sounding much more like Nividias numbers. RD8800. making public think, hummm, like 8800gtx?

Well, in time we might just see AMD is trying to confuse public by usurping nvidias card numbers & implying they are also NOW AMD Design. that was my first thought, yet NOW I feel, World+DOGS are howling at Moon hoping for relief from Nvidias oncoming Quality Exploit of PhysX & to Railroad US into believing Yesterdays equipment is good enough, all while BAD Mouthsng other designs cann't compet with as well: Vista Ultimate.

Its Ugly World for LOSERS to shift blame within or gain false credit.

Signed:Nvidian..
I think at 3 months ago, the lawsuit is kinda moot.
When will INQ dump this hack?
More Nvidia bashing Charlie? I don't even bother to read these things anymore because it's perfectly obvious how you're going to spin it.

AMD is still down more than 85%, better step up the shill campaign. You have enough credibility to move it at least a penny before it drops into oblivion.
"customer use patterns are contributing factors"

Customers using their products in a way that the chipset can't handle? 

We prohibit users fromusing Office together with Firefox, it can melt our connectors :)))

We also wan't to note that the laptops works best when they are off, we have few complaints with computers that noones uses, keep it that way please.
An interesting read (until I felt a sudden need to nap halfway through).

Charlie, you are just spitballing here right? I'm not here to defend Nvidia, but it seems like there is very little data to draw any serious conclusions. So here are some holes:

1) Anyone but HP seeing this issue?
2) Could it be a manufacturing related excursion?
3) Along with the first poster... does HP due any burn-in or accelerated testing? Is it adequate or did the chips somehow change AFTER they did their validation?

Charlie, you need some more data... the speculating is fine but it is a bit early to tell what's going on. Though I completely agree Nvidia's PR on this is going to bit them big time especially as ATI (I refuse to call them AMD) seems to have gotten its act together.

By the way how is Intel's alternative 45nm process coming along? (a while back you said they were having issues with their line) Any update on that? Are they dancing in the aisles? (oh wait that was the 3.0+GHz Phenom... I keep mixing up your 'speculations')
"When will INQ dump this hack?"
He's the reason you and I and many other people stop here daily. If INQ gets rid of him, I'll get rid of them. Go Charlie! Love it when you upset people(fanboys mostly), but sometimes it's even more fun to read the retarded comments flaming you. Double whammy.

Charlie! You no TWIMTBP!
Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!
You g-good eye!
Jade you invindians fo howboys!
bang! bang! bye-bye!
I no racist joke! It's you fault!
Who the baby's daddy is?!
How you hot video?
GreeNast Nbiggast Chipast!
nSist on nIT! THE FIRST-NEVER VISUAL COMPUTING MEGA-NVENT
N-YOU ON AN "AS-IS" BASIS, JOE
My own M1330 has had a complete mainboard replacement due to a blown nVidia video chip and it's less than 1 year old!

If you check the XPS forums, there are many threads like this, some people have had 4 mainboards replaced! There are people selling modified coolers for the M1330 and many are DIY their coolers to attempt to fix this.

The M1330 with integrated Intel graphics do not have such problems. I certainly never had such a problem with a laptop before.

Montevina refresh comes with ATI video instead of nVidia - it is possible Dell will start replacing M1330 with ATI chips like HP.
I'll say something in their defense: it's logical to assume they did not WANT nor PLAN for this to happen, and I don't think they are so non-caring that they would ignore it if there was a large possibility this would happen, they would know they'd get sued and get in trouble, so to imply they knew all along and just didn't care seems a bit silly.
Plus if the data nvidia got about the capabilities of the substrate from their suppliers was false then those have blame too surely.
It sure looks like they are doing the blaming game, but that doesn't exclude the possibility they don't have some people to actually really blame.
Also I sure hope ATI keeps a competitor, they are bad enough WITH some fire under their asses as it is.
not wanting to add to the get rid of charlie debate but honestly is there a way that on the main page i could filter out Charlie as a contributor? i understand some people want to read his stuff but i don't anymore. I would really like to see the latest headlines without any of his stories is there a way we could log in with preferences?
Charlie, you really do hate this company don't you?

It's not just Nvidia with issues right now.
its about time nvidia got into a jam they couldn't bs their way out of
Come on! If you want "reliable" news then you go to a more traditional site. This site is for 'news, reviews, facts, and FRICTION'.

Bob was right. A quick Google search reveals the link to Brothers v. Hewlett-Packard Company was to a case filed in March 29, 2006. A little more digging shows it involves the NV3x (Geforece Go 5xxx series).

I got a product search page for the other HP link... Looks like HP also have a few notebook configurations with the GeForce 8400M / 8800M so I guess it might be related to that? More googling on 'GeForce 8400M' heat got me to forum discussion on modding the Dell XPS M1330 to fix overheating due to GPU.

Lets see how this plays out! :-)

[HP links fixed now.. Sorry chaps. Mod.]
Firstly, Jen-Hsun-Huang_Roy-Taylor, you're an idiot. Castrate yourself with pruning scissors so your defective genes do not contaminate the human genome.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled program...

My HP zd6000 bricked a month after the cutoff for the HP class action settlement, but that didn't stop me. I simply called up and lied to them that I'd submitted the paperwork for the suit and hadn't heard back. Normally I'd feel badly about taking such an action, but I justify it by having never been contacted by HP or the class lawyers to inform me that my laptop model was included in the suit in the first place despite my lappy being registered with HP from the day I purchased it.

In any case, they replaced the defective motherboard (due to the video chip meltdown) and when I got it back from the shop instead of the P4-3.2GHz CPU I had a Centrino2Duo! =) I'm quite pleased.

Now what worries me is my newer dv9400 series HP lappy... it has been in the shop for two motherboard replacements due to nVidia GPU issues and it's less than a year old. :/
I love the comments too, Charlie gets load, makes his pages even more worthwhile.

Fanboys are funny.
I hope my new 8800M GTX can hack it :( It IS a G92M ... *fingers crossed*
the fact remains that nvidia itself has confirmed the basis problem with it's chips

this is not hot air
Nice to see some people are still your side, I am too and it's incredible to see that some NV fanboys are blaming AMD for this.

It's like kicking the underdog whilst being locked into and Nvidian slash Intelian vice! I mean what pull does AMD really have you idiots!?
For MixedUp: Well.. about those numbers.. Who used first 9600 denomination for a video card? Ati or Nvidia? I guess you just mixed them up :)
Charlie is a nice fellow.. I really hope the Inquirer will keep him on their team. It's true that his opinion is not quite an objective one, but hey.. there are not that many objective people.
I used to like Nvidia since the Riva days and bought many-many cards with Nvidia inside; but their present attitude leaves much to be desired. Plus ATI was bought by AMD.. I keep the underdog's side, and AMD is quite a nice underdog.
I think you need to calm down Charlie. Most people want them to fail this time round and ATI kick ass but I'm sure most people dont want them to go out of business. The best thing for us "the consumer" is competition. Although ATI/AMD are the underdogs now what happens when/if they become the top dogs? They start charging an arm and a leg for their stuff. They abuse that position as proved time and again with all the corporations. I really am glad ATI/AMD have made a come back, really, but I want NVidia now to go back to the drawing board and come up with something that will be revolutionary just like the 8800GTX was. Maybe they have some secret pact to take in turns to be top dog? :D

Can anyone tell me if the 8600m is affected?
Way Back Before Big Bang in: hermits Kave, Charlie Bashed wee infant ultie whom was using Monacur: THOMASSTEWART. Its SAD To See Post completely deranged & altered, yet maybe Charles knows Business. also thomasxstewart went down in Flames in Same Pre Conscious era. 
So Did Someone else at Charlies Present Day Spot, So Well Be. Charlie 1 Adjutant Pin+.-III

Next: If you Take All Slots Available & Insert PPU cards, Say 4- 280GTX & Whole bunch of seperate PCi & PCIe PPU(Is That Possible) I come Up with increase in 3D Futuremark Potential from 20,000 Today to About 1.3 Million. Hummm.Could alter Hardware Industry.

Next, About Charles Brain Transplant from Jan. 2006. I Am Sorry If I Left Any Surgical Instruments In Your Head Charles, I Was Little Stoned on patients Gas At Time(No Use Wasting Stuff on Patient), Insides looked Lot Like Squished Squirrel, However. I Left Intack: Intel ST.Anley TreadMarks, It seemed To Go Well With Brain Furrows.I Really Should Have Left HeadLights, for Eyeballs.Honk,Honk.Great Honks MusicMan.
Give That Person Bonus.
drashek
"HP system engineering is one of the very best in the industry, period"

very, very questionable, 


that's why they bought Voodoo PC so they can build finally a PC.

and yes, they should have test it and pass quality controls before going into production, but meh, it;s and anti nVidia article.

one more thing Charlie: Didi you ever opened those HP notebooks in question to see how is the cooling designed? not to mention the low quality mobo,memory and other things.


cmon Charlie, don;t ruin inq, i used to enjoy your articles before this vendetta !
To all idiot NV Fanboys:

Before you flame Charlie and tell him NV hater, Look to this link (if you still able to read)

http://eetimes.com/news/semi/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=LCHRI2YHSCPU2QSNDLPSKHSCJUNN2JVN?articleID=208802249

Even their investor have doubt about those pesky idiot NV.

Let me tell you something:
1. If INTEL doesn't extend the GTTL++ P4 bus license, do you even thing NV could make a chipset for INTEL? Look at VIA and learn.

2. If NV Semicon Foundry pissed off and
deliberately rejecting NV order. Do your god forsaken NV could make even
their own chips? Search Google and
find out how many foundry have 300mm
wafer at 45 nm node and below... We even haven't talk whether those foundry have compatible tools with TMSC EDA.

3. To those IDIOT who said HP doesn't
test the chip. Look at your computer/laptop, Do you see JIS, CSA, UL, VDE label? Do you even know what the heck those labels means? If no, then shut the F*ck up.

4. NV Blaming it's user base. Don't you know the phrase "THOU SHALL NOT KILL THOU CUSTOMERS" practice????? I think your fanboy stupidity could not understand this.

5. As to NV, you said CPU era is over and
yet you license ARM Core IP for your CPU??? Talking is cheap eh NVIDIA?

To Charlie thanks for your article. That company would go the drain like 3dfx anyway. Good riddance....

NV Fanboy Hater...
Wow. This is the worst article ever. Just as was mentioned before, this article could have been 3 paragraphs long and still conveyed the same message. It was sad that he stretched it out so much with silly opinions and incorrect information. I'm all for the underdog, and lost a hefty sum of money supporting a dieing AMD/ATI, happy that they're now on the way back. Whatever happens, I'm just hoping that NVidia is going back to the drawing board and creating a newer amazing product. This is going to be an interesting 12 months ahead of us, now that AMD/ATI has caught up to NVidia's best, Intel is releasing the larrabee (RAWFL), and everyone is speculating what will come of the x86 market. HmmHmmHmm.

Terrible author, stupid article, and I wish that Google Finance wouldn't link this gibberish into their current news feed.
Give me a break. Nvidia isn't blaming anyone for their problems, they are just pointing out what they are and how they are going to fix them.

Nvidia is the one responsible for setting the design specifications, and are the ones footing the bill for that mistake. There is no issue here.
Seriously to all you idiots complaining about the article. If you don't like it you don't have to read it, much less make idiotic comments as to how to filter an author in the main page as if you're somehow required to read his articles.

I mean, I know you fat asses don't like to make much exercise, but to move a mouse over isn't too much of a job.

I own a Compaq 6310 notebook on the HP extended warranty list. It does NOT have a G84 or G86 GPU. It has a GeForce 6150 which is a C51PV. 
HP has had a fan problem that they have a BIOS fix for. The majority of the systems on that list do not have G84 or G86 GPUs, those are high end upgrades that have not been out that long. I suspect that they may share some other common components say a system fan or a BIOS which may have some issue that HP is trying to address in a responsible way.
Is there any list of HP notebooks which are damaged? I bought Pavilion dv6830 a week ago and I got this message next day :-(((
"While we have not been able to determine a root cause for these failures" : They don’t know the root cause yet. But then talk about some of the factors.

"testing suggests a weak material set of die/package combination" They aren't saying who's fault, it could well be the specs they set.

"system thermal management designs, and customer use patterns are contributing factors" Again they did not say the laptops where designed wrong or that users were misusing them.

"Parsing that, you see that they are blaming fabs and packaging suppliers first, OEMs second, and those damn users third, but they have no fault here, NV can do no wrong." I think you need to go get some logic skills cause you seem to fail more then my puppy at it.

You can just as easily read this as - They think its related to the fad/packaging of the GPU due to their specifications. This issue shows up in laptops that are within the thermal design rules but push nearer to the specified limits. These designs combined with heavy GPU usage/3D graphics (Games, 3D Vis etc) push up the temps and expose the design issues….

I think you set out with a preset answer when you read it. Your bias amazes me and reminds me why I don’t read this site all the time.

Of course if you have reason to believe there is more to it, then post those reasons...

Note: My note book has an ATI GPU in it - don’t care about the brands.

They no longer design or manufacture or test most of their computers. Acer does most of that for consumer products.

Exceptions: business blade computers - the only ones with a market that will pay a premium and provide enough margin to fund the overhead monster.

If you don't "do" you don't "know". That's the fundamental flaw with outsourcing.
@ Watcom

I think the article mentioned how OEMs design laptops based on the specs that the parts designers (in this case Nvidia) gives them.

Quote: "NV specs these things, and HP makes a notebook to the specs that NV gives them, a process that happens long before the chips come out of the fabs in any decent volume."

So the laptops are designed before any chips are even manufactured, and I don't think it is reasonable to have engineers stress test a prototype chip.
Here's what an Nvidia VP said about the chip issue: "I don't want to minimize the issue, but it is not like Tylenol or Odwalla or Firestone tires. You weren't going to die from this problem. You are not going to get burned. You are not going to -- it's just your notebook doesn't work." Visit the website www.mynvidiafail.org
HP is not being honest either.

The number of laptops that they have admitted to, are just the tip of the ice-burg. And they are replacing the motherboards with more bad motherboards.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne@WayneSallee.com
I had a nightmare scenario like this last year with an HP dv6000 laptop. It lasted 14 months and now has a new owner who's going through the same problems of replacing the motherboard. And now, I have an XPS M1530 and I'm sure it will fail soon also. Bought it thinking it was a good buy but who knew the extent of this problem was bad as X-Box 360. Thinking of switching to cheaper Samsung model minus the Nvidia chip once it does. And hopefully the DVD drive will work unlike the M1530 which says every DVD I own apparently is scratched and unplayable right now!
THE DEVICE: HP Pavilion DV6700se Laptop. (AMD based) $950 USD – 15 months old.
THE PROBLEM: while booting up, screen only shows white with black lines then eventually fades to black.
THE CULPRIT: motherboard (video circuit area) NVIDIA chipset.
THE CALL TO HP: sorry it’s out of warranty (laptop only 15 months old) & not eligible for recall.
THE VERDICT: for an outrageous charge ($200 to $300 USD + shipping), HP will be happy to replace a faulty constructed motherboard with a replacement motherboard.
THE OPTION: for $145 USD, I can purchase a refurbished motherboard and replace it myself, but then who knows how long another HP motherboard will last.
NOTE: NVIDIA has admitted there are problems with certain GPU’s and from what I can find on the web, HP has used some of these in there Laptop’s (mine included), this fact does not relive HP from standing behind their product. I expect HP to deal with the problem that they are responsible for.
• HP has made it known that if your laptop meets certain criteria then you may be eligible for a free repair.
• HP has also refused to acknowledge that this defect occurs across a broader line of laptops than they have acknowledged.
Quote form Class action law suit. (Line 24 & 25 of page 6)
• “the NVIDA GPUs is not robust enough to withstand normal operation”
• “HP Confirmed the NVIDIA GPU Defect in an Internal Investigation”
WHAT I’M DOING:
1) For $29.99, I have purchased an “External 2.5inch Hard Drive Enclosure” and installed the Hard Drive from HP Pavilion DV6700se laptop, now I have a portable external Hard Drive that I can retrieve some of my documents.
2) Planning to put laptop (and / or) parts on e-bay. (2 Gig’s of RAM, Power supply, internal wireless modem, battery pack, ect…)
3) Post this information on as many posts as I can find.
4) I plan on purchasing my next laptop from Dell, IBM, Sony or Toshiba. But certainly not from HP ever again, only because of there poor costumer support.
5) Sighing up for the class action law suit and posting the link to the class action law suit here http://www.sfmslaw.com/documents/pdf/nvidia-gpu-complaint.pdf
EPILOG: My other laptop (Dell) is 7 years old and after a memory upgrade and a BIOS update, it is working better than ever. My wife’s Toshiba is 4 years old and is running like the day it was bought. This is testimony to the quality of both Dell and Toshiba has put into there equipment, so that's why I will be looking to Dell, IBM, Sony or Toshiba for my new Laptop. Up till its untimely death in October 2009, I very much liked the look and feel of the HP Pavilion DV6700se Laptop, to bad the quality is substandard and support from HP is nonexistent.
WARNING: don't let HP have your money, they will eventually get the message or go away, either way, we are all better served. For $950 USD, you should expect any laptop to last longer than just 15 months.
Unsatisfied ex-HP Customer
Sites worth reading
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1029630/nvidia-meltdown-blame-game
http://cinemazement.com/blog/?p=4334
I have had this exact same issue with the Dell XPS M1710 which has an Nvidia 7950 GTX GeforceGo (GU067) in it. I don't know why this model M1710 isn't on the list of affected laptops and the Vostro 1710 is a completely different spec. I have replaced 3 cards as my warranty has expired and the third card has now failed. Each card costs approximately $300-$800 which is quite expensive. It has gotten to the stage now where i can't justify replacing cards anymore because it's not cost feasible. I originally paid $4,800 for this laptop back in the end of 2006. Replacing cards all the time isn't going fix the issue because all of the GU067 cards are affected and will in time fail like all the rest. The graphics cards are Lemons (check out Lemon laws in your area)! You might also be covered under a statutory warranty which Vendors don't tell you about. All the Nvidia GPU's need to be recalled and a suitable replacement without the defects issued to customers. It's an outrage! After reading up on forums and finding that there are thousands of people with this issue i started an online Petition roughly 2 months ago. There are already lot's of signatures from users with the same issue. Originally i started the petition just for the Model XPS M1710, but have now extended it to all Dell laptops with an Nvidia GPU. The Petition can be signed here: http://www.petitiononline.com/XPSM1710/ I have also created a video of the effects of a defective Nvidia GPU on my M1710, the video can be viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wINkdSpU2o A class action needs to happen to fix this issue because clearly Dell are stalling and never get back to their customers. I have been a Dell customer for quite sometime and have purchased many laptops from them and have recommended them to other people, however after this incident with the faulty cards and no suitable resolution other than a BIOS update for only certain models isn't acceptable. The BIOS update isn't going to fix the problem only slow the inevitable. Recall your product DELL!