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Nvidia introduces GeForce 9 series mGPUs

Officially this time
Wednesday, 15 October 2008, 18:23

AFTER PREMATURELY announcing the release of Nvidia 9300 and 9400 chipsets a couple of weeks back and getting wrapped on the knuckles for it, we’re going to announce the release again, this time with Nvidia’s consent.

Nvidia introduces its new GeForce 9-Series mGPUs with the bombastic claim that “the integrated graphics motherboard as you know it is dead”, staking the claim that the integrated, single chip design will show game-changing performance of up to five times better than on Intel integrated graphics.

No specific figures are given in the presentation to back this claim up, but Nvidia spinner Benjamin Berraondo assured us “There is fact behind it. The five times faster claim is based on various game benchmarks that do run that much faster on our board compared to previous generation of both Intel and AMD integrated graphics”. He went on to say that when Nvidia compared its MP39 series to equivalent competitor products, the firm found “quite a few instances” where things sped up considerably compared to things currently happening in gaming.

Nvidia’s presentation is also keen to point out that nowadays it’s all about GPU+, Nvidia’s term for being able to do more than just graphics on a GPU, Cuda and PhysX, also boasting that the new chipsets offer a 70+ per cent boost with a Hybrid SLI and Purevideo "Blu-Ray that works".

alt='nvidia-slide1'

The above slide deals with Benchmark performance, a touchy subject as some believe Nvidia, by using 3DMark Vantage which uses Ageia PhysX API (owned by Nvidia), is purposefully trying to skew results. But Nvidia is indignant at claims they are cheating by owning PhysX and using it when Intel can’t. Aside from the fact that PhysX tests are PhysX tests and not GPU or CPU tests, Nvidia argues that it should not be penalised for using PhysX on cards. The way Nvidia looks at it, by offering PhysX, it is offering an innovation which will benefit gamers.

“If Havoc becomes truly CPU or GPU accelerated on either AMD or Intel's platform, I'm sure 3DMark Vantage wouldn't hesitate in placing a Havoc benchmark or a more integrated systems benchmark in as well”, noted Berraondo.

Nvidia goes on to justify 3DMark Vantage as a fair benchmark with the fact that several games are now starting to appear with PhysX support. Mirror’s Edge from EA is one example. The firm is also eager to point out that there are plenty of Cuda apps in the pipeline, including FibreLink and Power DVD, as well as GPU accelerated apps like next week’s much anticipated Adobe CS4. Anyway, as pointed out by an Nvidia Spinner, all the Vantage scores were done with GPU PhysX switched off.

Nvidia’s next slide deals with the Nvidia’s claim that, for the first time on integrated graphics, games will be able to run top-selling games at 30 FPS and similar “playable frame rates”. We had previously pointed out that some of the 20+ FPS rates were at resolutions of 1024*768, and 800*600, which would make for a bit of an unsatisfactory gaming experience on games like Crysis, but as Berraondo points out, “real hardcore gamers probably won’t be trying to play Crysis on 800*600 resolution”.

Nvidia never intended the 9300/9400 to be used by hardcore gamers. It was designed for general use and people who might play the odd game or two from that year’s “top 30 bestsellers list”. And, you know what, this is an integrated graphics chip you can actually game with to a fair degree. But, no arguments, for those who want an amazing gaming experience, integrated graphics aren’t really going to cut it.

The next slide takes another big dig at Intel, claiming "14 of Top 30 PC Games Fail on Intel Graphics Even on lowest resolution, lowest settings". This may have been true back in July – which is the month Nvidia admits it took its data from - but Intel claim that only seven per cent of games fail on its integrated graphics now, a significant improvement. Nvidia’s spinners claimed to not have more up-to-date information on the matter, but noted that failure was an issue, because for the user who does plan on playing the odd game, it should at least run properly.

Nvidia then spends several slides explaining why its only with its integrated graphics and advanced graphics features that users will be able to experience a game “the way it was meant to be played”.

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Next up, and another slide which caused us a fair amount of indignant snorting is the slide which shows two $445 systems, identical except for the CPU and the motherboard. The 'Intel' system uses a G31 GPU and a Core 2 7200 CPU, whilst the Nvidia system uses a 9300 board and a Pentium DC E2180. Using three generation old Intel integrated Graphics and comparing it to a brand new Nvidia one didn’t seem exactly fair, so we asked the firm for its reasoning.

Nvidia replied that it was simply a case of coming up with two comparable price systems – both with exactly the same HDD, Memory, Optical, OS, and PSU, - leaving $170 per system for the board and CPU. Nvidia reckons it was trying to dispel standard wisdom that the faster the CPU, the faster the system, which is why the firm claims it picked a Core 2 Duo for $120 leaving $50 left to spend. This, according to Nvidia, made the G31 a “natural fit”. Hmmm… maybe. But despite this, we can’t help but mention that an ATI 3650 would probably more than have doubled performance.

Next slide, Nvidia notes the '16 core CUDA processor', which it says can deliver “enough horsepower to drive top DX9 and DX10 enthusiast games – at playable frame rates – with full support for hardware antialiasing and advanced filtering”. Of course, that will probably be more useful when more Cuda software starts tipping up. Currently Nvidia only counts Badaboom, folding@home, MotionDSP (which Nvidia partially owns), TMPGenc and TotalMedia Theater as demos for GPU acceleration, but swears more, including Picassa, are to follow.

alt='nvidia-slide-3'

The following slide deals with the fact that the New Hybrid PhysX feature purportedly turns the motherboard GPU into a dedicated PhysX processor, accelerating mainstream GPUs and showing comparisons between the 9400 GT and the Hybrid Physx with GeForce 9300.

Next Nvidia gets back to Hybrid SLI, something ATI has had down pat for a while now, but it looks as if Nvidia is making a big effort to catch up, claiming a 70+ per cent graphics performance boost when switching between 8400 GS or 8500 GT GPUs.

Finally, the last few slides deal with BluRay (“That works” – Joy!), which Nvidia sees as being really key. It’s a shame the firm didn’t think it was really key back when AMD got the 690 (with outstanding quality), or back in July when Intel bunged it into its integrated graphics too. Nvidia has come in a bit behind the crowd on this one, unfortunately.

Still, Nvidia seems excited that users will now be able to fully offload H.264, VC-1, and MPEG-2 HD video titles at lower CPU utilisation and claim that its “perfect HQV HD score means the highest visual quality of any integrated-graphics platform”.

We’ll leave that up to the punters to decide though. µ

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See Also

Nvidia 9300/9400 chipsets exposed

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Comments
And the CPU is infinitly faster

and the CPU is infinitly faster at running the OS ...

I can find hundred of science projects that will do much better than the GPU, but let s look at real application.

Let's say that you have a mobile player you bought last year ... well, you need to encode it in DivX 5.0 or DivX 6.1. The CPU is infinitly faster than the GPU on this ... 
The CPU is infinitly faster at preparing your MP3s or AACs ...
The CPU is infinitly faster than the GPU at checking your spellling (I need it! a lot!!) in word ... 

The CPU is infinitly faster at Excel too! 
Infinitly faster at sending email ... browsing the web, uploading a video on yourtube, playing the video on youtube ... infinitly faster at check my face book, in 99% of today's usage model, the CPU is infinitly faster than the GPU, it is a proven fact!!!!!! 

Why?

Why infinit? BECAUSE THE GPU CAN T DO IT! it can not even Boot an OS! Linux? anybody? Windows? no? 
I wonder when this ridiculous claims will stop ...

I hope I made you smile!

Francois

posted by : Francois, 15 October 2008 Complain about this comment
Marketing bull...

"Next slide, Nvidia notes the '16 core CUDA processor', which it says can deliver “enough horsepower to drive top DX9 and DX10 enthusiast games – at playable frame rates – with full support for hardware antialiasing and advanced filtering”."

Oh I would loooove to see a DX10 "enthusiast game" with antialiasing and "advanced filtering" on NVIDIA's integrated GPUs... With any luck, at 1280*1024 it might reach 8 FPS.

posted by : Alexko, 15 October 2008 Complain about this comment
High end cards?

Is there going to be a 9800 GTX M to supercede the 8800 GTX M?

posted by : PhotoBoy, 15 October 2008 Complain about this comment
So nVidia is still doing chipset, uh?

As opposite as Charlie stated.

For blue ray, from anandtech:
http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=3430&p=5

"24 fps Playback: Perfect on NVIDIA

Most movies are recorded at 24 frames per second, however most displays and graphics cards refresh the screen 60 times per second (60Hz). Enter the home theater space and you'll find a number of displays that can properly output a 24 fps signal, but with an HTPC you'll need a video card that can properly output a 24Hz signal. Support for 24 fps playback isn't necessary, but you'll find that without it wide panning shots won't be smooth as the camera moves from one point to the next. The reason is that it's impossible to evenly divide 24 frames into 60, so some frames end up being displayed more than others (the infamous 3:2 pulldown).

On one end of the spectrum we have Intel's G45 which absolutely does not support proper 24p playback. The G45 still does not have official support for it in the drivers and although 24 fps playback is possible in the hardware, we seriously doubt the software group will implement it (that's a dare).

The AMD 780G/790GX results were very choppy at times; even when they seemed smooth we experienced audio sync problems.

The only platform that can properly handle 24 fps output is NVIDIA's GeForce 8200/8300. It just works. "

Hope you understand now.

posted by : Titius, 15 October 2008 Complain about this comment
16-core?

Wonder how that'll compare to the 80-core+ derivatives of TeraScale (http://techresearch.intel.com/articles/Tera-Scale/1449.htm). I wonder how much power this 16-core NVIDIA design will swallow. Though, it is an interesting concept. Since gamers typically bottleneck on the CPU and GPU end, so having a specialized unit that focuses on the GPU side and maybe can offload a few other tasks might free the CPU up to do more system related tasks like precaching files and handling network interrupts.

posted by : SalieriW, 15 October 2008 Complain about this comment
defect?

Is this one of the defect VGA that Charly article about?

posted by : Hok, 16 October 2008 Complain about this comment
Where's AEG...?

I don't know why anyone bothers with Nvidia PR anymore. Anyone remember how 3DMark is worthless & how games with special release drivers are the only way to be played...?

In particular, I like the use of an Intel mGPU system with PhysX being compared to an AMD mGPU without. AMD CPUs take a bath regardless of PhysX...

BTW, although Nvidia likes to throw in Photoshop CS4, Picassa, etc, any chance they get in the context of CUDA, they actually have nothing to do with it. They'll run via the standard D3D/OGL APIs...

posted by : recidivist, 16 October 2008 Complain about this comment
9800m GT

Just picked up a Asus laptop with the card in it and 1gb of GDDR3 dedicated, also able to allocate upto 2.5gigs of system ram to it if I wanted to. It runs dx10 games at full settings. Im talking Full scene AA and AF @ 1280x1080p on my samsung LCD tv with the built in HDMI output on the laptop. Its quite impressive for whats the spec's are. Crysis is the only game not capable of running at maximum settings but it runs decent on high settings. Everything else runs at atleast 30-60fps in maximum settings. Got the laptop at bestbuy for about 1100 after tax. Here are the Specs...

Intel® Centrino® 2 processor technology with interrelated Intel® Core™2 Duo processor P7450

Intel® PM45 chipset, 802.11a/b/g/n network connection and extended battery life capability.

4GB PC2-6400 DDR2 memory
For multitasking power; 1066MHz frontside bus, 3MB L2 cache and 2.13GHz processor speed.

Multiformat DVD±RW/CD-RW drive with double-layer support

Records up to 8.5GB of data or 4 hours of video using compatible media; also supports LightScribe direct-disc labels using compatible LightScribe media.

15.6" WXGA widescreen display
With a 1366 x 768 resolution brings your movies and games to life.
Secondary OLED display
Lets you receive notification of instant messages or e-mails during games.

320GB SATA hard drive (7200 rpm)
Provides plenty of storage space and fast read/write times.

NVIDIA GeForce 9800M GT graphics
With 1024MB of dedicated GDDR3 graphics memory for powerful graphic performance.

Azalia audio chip with built-in Altec Lansing stereo speakers.

Built-in 1.3-megapixel webcam
Makes it easy to send video mail to family and friends.

Facial recognition security
Uses the built-in webcam and software to help keep your laptop safe.

8-in-1 media reader
Supports Secure Digital, miniSD, MultiMediaCard, Memory Stick, xD-Picture Card, Memory Stick PRO, Memory Stick Duo and Memory Stick PRO Duo for easy transfer of your digital photos.
1 IEEE 1394 port and 4 high-speed USB 2.0 ports
For fast digital video, audio and data transfer.
Built-in 10Base-T/100Base-TX Ethernet LAN with RJ-45 connector
Ensures easy Internet connectivity.

Weighs 7.7 lbs. and measures 1.6" thin
For portable power.

Built-in gaming sidelights

Deliver an enhanced gaming experience; color-coded keys for gaming.
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium Edition 64-bit operating system
With Service Pack 1 (SP1) preinstalled for a stable operating platform.
Software package included
With Power 4 Gear Extreme, Life-Frame 3, ASUS Direct Console and more.

posted by : Pandaman, 26 February 2009 Complain about this comment
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