Ohio voting machines declared an official crime scene

I think both methods need improving and a hybrid voting method needs to be approved...

there should be a paper record ... but a hole...not a serrated big hole ...like a leather punch... this is not hard .... all that needs to happen is to make a hole with no paper cut out.

and this done on the electronic machines...they take the vote...punch the card... card comes out they check to make sure it punched correctly...
you end up with two records... one for the quick vote and then proof for later.

sure the democrats want to say that they would have won ohio... i doubt it .

The only reason they would come up with such a story is to try and swing the vote this november by casting the republicans as untrustworthy...

anyhow the voting method Does need major improvement...

I'm not sure what the Inq and a few voting booths in my area from a few years ago have in common. Hell, I'm not sure this qualifies as news. or fiction. just looks like a bunch of words thrown together on a slow news day.
<3

Why don't I see this article mentioned anywhere on CNN or other major state news websites?...

Are ye sandbaggin' me North Sea, again?
In over my head, alruddy! This will sully an otterwise spotless record of me keepin' always lookin' on the Blighty side of life! This smacks of old yellar dog journalism; and I have a bone to pick with you! Sure, maybe Ohio poll workers did "sleepovers" which included the "touchy" ESSy machines. But must ye be airing the affair on the wibble like dirty laundry? Shorely you cannot mean to give them a Felicity Shagwell reputation!? Implanting the device for old Fat Bastard? Come on, get in my belly! Inq! Whatever will the UN think? Trvth! It's over-rated!

So I understand your 2004 'rigged' Ohio conspiracy you take one county rumor... assume it happened in neighboring countries - I missed the justification for magically including the neighboring counties (why stop there and not assume it applied to all counties Bush had a lead in) and magically reverse 118K votes with a 140K swing...

So your assumption here is that 72% vote would suddenly evaporate and the vote would have been 50/50 and this would also happen in the neighboring counties? And remind me again, should I be wearing or not wearing my tinfoil hat when reading this?

I realize BB (Bush bashing) is a popular sport across the pond.. but this conspiracy ranks right up there... don't you have something better to write about?

You conveniently left off the author's resumes: Fitrakis & Harvey Wasserman co-authored HOW THE GOP STOLE AMERICA'S 2004 ELECTION & IS RIGGING 2008

...so I'm sure this is an unbiased, objective, and completely non-partisan view of things. Good to see the INQ is not becoming a political site?!?

This is a big reason why I hate americans so much. 

The sad thing is that there's probably a load of americans out there that think the vote rigging was some kind of heroic action, that they wouldn't be safe if not for keeping Bush around. Totally oblivious to how they've made the world a more dangerous place.

Am I the only one who finds it incredible that a country so fascinated with exporting democracy at gun point should be so casual about how democracy is handled in their own country?

The next time you feel patriotic and see 'old glory' flapping in the background of a carefully choreographed speech remember that if you accept any impropriety in democracy it ceases to be democracy.

Less blind acceptance more critical analysis - shock a European today...

The majority of all major media outlets ( in the US at least ) are subsidiaries of larger corporations which also have subsidiaries in the military industrial complex.
All information is filtered and only what is not FISCALLY ( the Backend corp. is never in a bad PR situation, when did you last hear anything bad about GE?) damaging to said corperate interests is allowed to be scrutinized. While at the same time giving the media a small allowance of noteworthy information to report; to give the appearence of objective and investigative journalism.
<removes tinfoil hat> That said, the paper ballot system was also flagged as suspect in Ohio when reports of voter fraud ( ballot destruction) made it to National Public Radio following the 2004 Presidential election. This is only from memory, but I cannot recall any major media outlets reporting the same information.
Both OH and FL are states with continual problems with election systems and they're results are always suspect. They are also two pivital election states. By manipulating the results of said states, one can change the results of a national election easily. I theorize that the previously mentioned corperate interests are responsible to some degree and the lack of mass media coverage is evidence, as all American citizens would take great offence to such inpropriety and demand of State and National congresses some measure of action.
Americans do not take to the streets in masses as easily as many citizens in other nations do (yet). This is due to complaceny and disinterest thanks to the long run of economic prosperity we have enjoyed (not for much longer). Most US citizens express thier political dissatisfaction through direct communtications such as telephone calls, snail mail and email.
So please, just because you do not see raving mad crowds in the streets out for blood on your televisions, do not make the assumption that the majority of Americans do not cherish the good aspects of our republic and our adopted democratic processes.

That's OK. You guys give us plenty to laugh at, too. 

New flash for ya: Vote Fraud (and Counterfeiting and Bank Fraud) happen everywhere in the world, because every country in the world is populated by Human Beings. 

And a note to those of you who think it's so cool to denigrate those "conspiracy nuts": Vote Fraud *does* occur. It's important that checks be in place and taken seriously. 

If audit logs on voting machines were turned off, it should be easy to prove, and it's a serious breach even if no voter fraud took place. These electronic voting machines look like Microsoft designed them. I.E. NO thought given to security, only after-thought.


The US pay-to-play political system becomes especially suspect with electronic voting through connected companies selling mystery software and hardware. Old fashioned ballot counting was hard to defraud on a large scale just because of the number of people who needed to be involved and the difficulty of secrecy. Obviously electronic voting with closed systems and little real control is pathetically vulnerable and fraud may never be found out.

Another difficulty comes from the ballot by mail schemes such as the one in California. The problem here is that it eliminates the Secret Ballot without notice or debate. As a result we can estimate that 10-20% of the women in the state have lost the independent vote. Most Muslim and other fundamentalist social/religious group's women, who really need an independent vote, have probably lost it. The centralized polling place also allows policing of the process when political machines arise. Vote by mail abolished that possibility if the political machine has enough election day workers to run a form of chain ballot through voting precinct households.

The excuse for many of these schemes is to increase voting percentages and lower costs. But if people feel their votes count and they have something at stake they will turn out. The US pay-to-play system in real governance is what has cut voter numbers. Real elections are worth what they cost. Few government functions are more important - like keeping cholera out of playground drinking fountains. Maybe not even that.

in 2004 the chairman of the board for Diebold (a privately held firm and the original maker of the voting machines) 'predicted' that ohio would vote bush months before the election. in a complete upturn ohio did vote bush, is it a coincidence?

arnold schwarzenegger installed these machines in california (in 2005 i think), when he went to cast the 'first' vote he was surprised to see he already had voted -- investigation uncovered that 'test' votes were still in the system. 

it is a lot of conspiracy theory. but there are people in in the world who DO conspire to take power over elections - believe it! 

add the business networks that you can find in theyrule.net and things do start looking fishy. 

this is just the tip of the iceberg though -- (in feb 2008) -- why didnt the predominately black areas in ohio have proportionally the same amount of voting machines as the white areas? 

there is no way about it something is amiss. and it begs the question why isnt anyone covering this story??

I can't believe how silly ballot counting is in the U.S. Let me give you the run down on how we do things in Canada. I show up at my local church or school to vote. Some friendly old lady volunteer direct me to the right booth. I show them my driver's license. They give me a PAPER ballot. The ballot has all the candidates listed on it, in alphabetical order. Each candidate has a little CIRCLE next to his or her name. I take a PENCIL and write an X in the circle next to the name of the person that I want to win. I then take the ballot and put it in a bog next to another nice old lady volunteer. The whole process takes about 5-10 minutes. Then, the polls close and people COUNT the Xs next to the names. About three hours after the polls close, we know who won. IT'S NOT DIFFICULT PEOPLE!!!! Nothing can get hacked, I don't need to register, I don't wait in line for 4 hours, and, most importantly, the right-wing nutcases up here can't steal the election. I know the U.S. won't be able to admit that another country (or, for that matter, EVERY country) does something better, so somebody, please, just steal this idea and pretend its your own so we don't have to deal with thieves running the U.S. anymore. Thanks!

well it depends on how you look at it. democracy is always being subverted around the world whether it be Russia, Africa or anywhere. there is a constant attempt at subversion from interested parties. then why is it that whenever anyone makes a well researched suggestion that corporate interests in North America are subverting democracy it's either that the Dems are trying to score votes or it's blasphemy. history doesn't repeat itself but it sure does come close. suspicion and cynicism are the nutrients of a strong democracy, i am sick of this indignant attitude of justification. the pursuit of corporatist criminals is a noble, democratic, american tradition. the most legitimate patriot is the one who will speak out, and who will hear the dissident voices.

Interesting how this is blown up in a UK paper. There were some issues with the machines but they were found NOT TO have had an effect on the election results. 

While it is true that there are many around the world who strive to fix elections...its much harder to do on a national level in the US than a local level ...should it happen. We all know that not that many people could keep quiet about it.

THIEVES WILL BE IN THE TEMPLE ON NOV 4. THE VOTES WILL BE STOLEN...TRUST ME...I'M AN american