- Sunday, 29 November 2009
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An editor should have a pimp for a brother so he'll have someone to look up to - Gene Fowler
Nvidia's 8000 line-up confuses
I DON'T KNOW about you but I for one have been thoroughly mystified by Nvidia’s offerings as of late. It all started off easily enough with the Nvidia 8 series of next-gen cards. There was the 8800GTS, the gargantuan 8800GTX, and then the immortal 8800 Ultra appeared. All great cards, right? Of course, but also a little pricey. The 8800GTS wasn’t bad, if you got the 320MB version, but let’s face it, the only people who bought those eventually used EVGA’s Step Up program and stepped up to the full 640MB version or the GTX or the Ultra (personally, I stepped up to the 640MB 8800GTS).
After a suitable time period (long enough for the hard core gamers to eat up the GTXes and Ultras), Nvidia released the lower end cards, the 8600s, the 8500s, and the lowly 8400s. This was aimed at the more laid-back consumer – the middle-aged Dell desktop buyer who wanted a next-gen graphics card, but didn’t want to spend more than $250 on it. This worked well, also, but the consumer noticed a problem. The 8800s were light-years beyond everything else in the 8 series. There was no middle ground. For the more thrifty-but-gamer buyer, this was an interesting dilemma. Does one buy the affordable card, but then be unable to play any of the newer games at a level not even approaching playability, or does one fork out the $$$ for a card that can play anything.
Then, this autumn Nvidia, hearing the plaintive cries of its fan base, announced the middle-ground card – the 8800GT. This card would solve everything. It was cheaper than the 8800GTS, but it was much better than the 8600s, 8500s, or 8400s. Salvation had arrived. Until, it was discovered that the new card was much better than the original 8800GTS (which still costs more than the 8800GT). This threw the fan base into even more of an uproar as not only was there a new card on the block, but it was smaller, cheaper, and better than the cards before it.
Now this shouldn’t have come as a surprise to anyone who follows technology. Everyone knows the old adage about having the computer you bought yesterday going obsolete tomorrow. However, Nvidia’s fan base wasn’t upset about that. They were upset about the middle-tier card being better than their top-tier card – specifically the 8800GTS. Nvidia had told everyone that the GT would fill in between the 8800 and everything else, but it doesn’t. The GT was built on Nvidia’s new smaller G92 architecture as opposed to the previous G80 architecture. And so, the GT, being cheaper than the other 8800s performed better than or as well as everything except the Ultra.
Now, this could have been handled differently on Nvidia’s part, but what’s done is done. Everyone, including my roommate, who’s gotten a GT, loves it. And I have to admit (even thought I own one of those obsolete 8800GTSs), the GT is a slick looking card – either in your case or on your screen. The next problem that plagued Nvidia, however, was the simple reality that there was far more demand for the GT than anyone would have thought. So much demand in fact, that few people have actually gotten any of them. Sure, by now, enough people have experienced the wonder that is the GT, but it took my roommate a month to get his card. That’s just not cool.
Beyond that, all the poor 8800GTS owners who had bought their card thinking that it would survive until the 9 series were suddenly pushed out into the cold world of misfit video cards. Their card wasn’t broken, but it sure wasn’t good anymore. So, what did we do about it? Did we toss out our old 8800GTSs and jump on the 8800GT bandwagon? In a word, no. We ate cheese and whined about it instead. We whined so much, in fact, that our great and generous king Nvidia heard our cries and told us not to stop sobbing over obsolete parts, because a new card was on the horizon.
And this is where I completely lost it. Nvidia announced an upgraded 8800GTS. Basically, since they couldn’t kill the GT or cripple it (darn thing is too powerful), they decided to beef up the old GTS. So, a new card was born that was supposed to be better than the GT, just like the original GTS was supposed to be. But here’s where it gets murky. On the heels of that announcement, EVGA began selling this upgraded card, or was it? EVGA calls it the 8800GTS SSC. Instead of the old 96 stream processors there are 96+ stream processors. Now, is it a big secret how many stream processors the upgrade is supposed to have? Maybe it varies per card? Confusing to say the least. The GT was out flexing its 112 stream processors, and the GTS SSC was supposed to equal that, right? Well, I don’t know. The GTS SSC is available to buy (my other roommate just bought one), but is it the anticipated successor to the GT?
Well, apparently not. Nvidia will be releasing the real upgrade to the 8800GTS this week (or so they keep saying), and we can hope that the hype is worth it. The new card (and this time, it is a new card, instead of some minor upgrade to that obsolete 8800GTS) will be sporting the same G92 architecture as the GT. It’s also got 512MB of memory which will further set it apart from the old GTSs which have 320MB and 640MB. In addition, the clock speeds are increased and this card could well rival the Ultra – and at a fraction of the price of one.
In the end, Nvidia has been releasing cards left and right this fall and holiday season, and the consumer had best do their research before buying what they think is a new card. As for me, I’m going to go dust off my old 8800GTS and see if I can still manage to look at its grainy picture…That is, after I take an aspirin. µ
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it's not THAT confusing really... it became a bit confusing before... when GT was launched.. that too for people who are "opposite-of-geek".. this is not confusing for ANY gamer who is wants a decent graphics card.. the n00bs won't be needing that much power anyways..
Fudo has already reviewed MSI's offering. It looks good, so you probably won't be disappointed.
I just can't help wondering how you guys at INQ just keep bashing Nvidia for whatever it does.

Let's face it, Nvidia has been the clear king of GPU since G80 came out and it's still kicking ass. Now if we want to undermine their efforts with your comments, let's see how good they actually were.

You pretty much complained about the fact that the ones who bought 8800 GTS (old card already) are now bitter over 8800 GT and 8800 GTS 512. As you said, things move up quickly with computers and so in a couple months there can easily be released a better GPU. And if you wait even further, there will be even a better one and so on...

So when does it end? Never. You know, it's not like that if you buy something now and a couple of months later something better comes out, you're supposed to be screwed. No, not like that. You can enjoy your purchase even after the new GPUs. Nobody forces you to upgrade your computer, nobody laughs at you. Your purchase was good when it was bought!

So since Nvidia is so good and you people at INQ can't find anything negative about it, you are trying to make the positive look like negative. Oh no, 8800 GT and the new GTS kick ass and are one of the best GPUs ever in terms of price and performance. And a couple of months later from now there will come G100. Are we all screwed then? No, because we have enjoyed our fine purchase now and those cards will last long.

Cheers
I'll be looking at either the G92 GTS or the HD3870x2.
"but let’s face it, the only people who bought those eventually used EVGA’s Step Up program and stepped up to the full 640MB"

They did? Then why the hell have I still got a BFG 320MB GTS? Damn it.
Well as a 8800GTS 640MB owner i did feel a bit frustrated when the GT showed up, but not anymore. The 8800GTS (old one) is still great for any throw at it, and if you OC like i did to 600/1000, works even better, so why spend more money on a little or well maybe not so little upgrade like the new 8800GTS, just wait like i will for the 9X00 series...or the respin of the 9X00, cause you all know there will be one,hehe.
Cheers
Tell me, please, what inspired such a pointless article. Are you really professing to work for an online tech rag and not be able to follow the naming scheme, in spite all of the press releases and blurb?

Or are you perhaps attempting to imbue empathy in some demographic you have invented: People who are clever enough to read the Inq yet are somehow just dumb enough to not follow a product, let alone understand the market intimately.

Now, back in reality, nVidia have held the performance (single-gpu) for a year. They show every sign of continuing this trend over the next six months. Thave aggressively attacked AMD/ATI in every price segment, to the extent of cutting their own GTX/ULTRA throats, completely to the gain of the customer.

Yet you want to know them in public over what? Their product naming.

Dude, get a life. Quick.
Yes, the few sites that have ran tests against the GT vs. the newest GTS (G92) are about 5-8% in favor of the GTS at. 

Online sites that have the few of these are gouging greater than that 5-8% that performance difference.

nVidia must be making bank on this wayward naming convention. Unknowing people buying GTS over GT thinking they perform better and people paying even more because the GTS (G92) because it runs the way the GTS should perform in the 1st place.
And people are just going to be more confused now that there's two generations of a card with the same model name.

Why can't we just use realistic names?

The nVidia playEverything + LAN party bragging rights.
The nVidia playEverything.
The nVidia playSomethings.
The nVidia noGames.
I too have the already obsolete 8800GTS cards (2 in SLI). They've served well, but at this point, I'm done with NVidia. Back to ATI for me, as they now make more sense than the NV people.

Between NV and their 8 zillion variations, as well as their shoddy drivers that break things each time I "upgrade", I'm exhausted. Plus, EVGA has another 2 zillion variations. I give up. SImple is simply better. I've spent too much money on NV. I don't see the value anymore
I am also an "unfortunate" owner of the 8800GTS 320MB and yes i felt the sting of this recent purchase while reading the 8800GT reviews. don't let nvid screw up your day because the card still runs great at 1440x900 4xAA 16xAF most games (even crysis). Maybe the GT would have let me go 8xAA (yow!!), but what matters is im happy with the framerates that i am getting so now i can finally play the sloppy game engine called NWN2..

anyways, you should also be blaming that slacker slopfest company DAMMIT for sitting on its hands all this while. don't be surprised if Nvidia inexplicably "delays" the D9E.
I think it's all a bit overdone. And technology goes on anyway.
So I think that Nvidia makes a big step forwards.

GT -> GTS - GTX -> ULTRA isn't to dificult to understand?

I think that ATI is creating a big hole between their cards:
2X00 series and the 3XX0 series.

But most people don't care what version is in it. If the newest videocard is in their new computer, they are happy.
So they won't even look to what number or name is on the package. If it's the newest, they're happy.
So, with this new GTS card on the way, what's to stop all the current owners of GTX/Ultra variations whingeing the same as the GTS owners have done - or are the performance gains (of the new card) less than that of the afore-mentioned Uber-expensive varieties?

I for one have been looking at the prices of GT cards here in the UK and at the last check, the best I could find one for was £150 (300USD) - should I wait and see what the new year brings (possibly the G100/9XXX range?) or should I splurge now on the product I had my eye on?
I have a BFG 8800GTS 640 (bought it last xmas). 

Imho the dirrefence it not HUGE and the "new is here, the old is absolete" fever is a nosence. Just for people to spend money this year. 

I have already overclock this behemoth (from my previous card being an 9500non pro, softmoded, etc is a behemoth), by 20%. 
Am I happy? Yes. At 1680x1050 (my 22" monitor) I have everything dead high and I'm happy. So why to change? 

When I find another one dead cheap I will plug it on for a good SLI powered system. 
Sure they will.
At least until June next year, when you'll be slobbering for the next generation kit.

Come on, you know I'm right.
no INQ reader would be confused with that.. and the people who get confused by this... there's no chance that they're INQ readers..
[/reapet]
Period..
Just buy Geforce 9
lol whats this backwards article about really.. its not like there is that much of a difference between the new and the old 8800 cards.. if there was I guess they would have atlest changed the names.. so what if its 10% better, thats hardley worth bragging about when the old 8800 GTS 640 MB runs everything good enough.. atleast at my current resolution.

And when the new slightly improved cards are released at a lower price point, you complain about it ? thats jboth backwards and stupid!

Let me know when a GeForce9 is out.. some rehash of 1 year old cards with minor performance improvments isnt that interessting.. the only interessting thing about it is its low price wich is good for those who don't have a card with a similar performance already.




I read all that for what? Let me re-write your article for you real quick. Here goes....
I wish they would have called the new 8800GT and 8800GTS the 8850GT and 8850GTS. That would have been cool. THE END
Every1 knows that gpus will keep coming out. Whether it be a year, or a month. If you always want the best, be prepared to pay the price. No matter what you buy, there will always be another to trumph yours. When you have the money to buy another, then do so. Until then quit complaining.
This is what happens when a company has no other competitor for it's products. I am going to get an ATI card for two reasons. Fist to support anyone but nVidia, and second (which is a huge debate) I think that ATI architecture produces a better image. This is nothing more than my opinion but nVidia tends to have bright vibrant colors where ATI has better shading (which is what makes games look more realistic) So once ATI fixes their number of texturing units (16 on the 38xx vs 56 on the 8800GT)...I am jumping to the ATI side and leaving this steamy pile behind.
Just because 8800GTS 640/320 may not run Crysis at "Very High" settings doesn't mean they're outdated now! It was your decision then to have bought the product, right after you've became a "user" of this product.. for the money you paid "THEN"!!! The manufacturer isn't responsible to keep your current card as glamorous as it ever was! In fact, they should be saluted for bringing up better products.