How many Bloody Marys have you had? - Richard Faria, Temonmichi
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64bit good, 32bit not so good
P.S. Looking foward to getting a "Hammer"
re:"4GB should be enough for anybody. Not"
"Anvil and Yamhill will ship or linux and AMD will take over the desktop and in 10 years we will be laughing about how they thought 4 GB of memory should be enough for anybody"
...yah,cause as we all know "if you install it, Windows will use it".
LOL I remember those heady days, when I had 16MB of ram in a 4MB world, and a cutting-edge real "pro" OS in Windows NT 3.5...loading up TIFF files in ridiculously-large resolutions, just to watch the memory usage go up in Task Manager...setting up a RAM disk with half my memory...hell, I had no real use for it at the time...then, sure enough, the next version of NT came out, and sucked up all my ram, then doled out what it deemed to be sufficient ram for me to run my apps LOL yep, I was so *glad* to get Win2k, with its much more advanced memory-management system, and a mere 128MB footprint :)
It is so really too bad that Win2k/XP pro can only *use* 2GB of ram, isn't it? Otherwise we could all have fun loading MPEGs into a 2GB ramdisk, for flawless playback? LOL I laugh now but we all know that will happen soon :) just goes to show how out of date it is, and how much we need Longhorn hahahah
yes, thank God that we have the Linux alternative! Pentium level performance on a 486, and in 4MB to boot! Will Mandrake 10.0 auto-recompile all my apps and fully optimize my system for my new x86-64 cpu with 16GB of dual-channel DDR-II, that I am so desperately in need of?
...seriously, if people buy SUVs *for* their size in spite of the fact that they are inefficient and unnecessary, I'm sure that some will buy x86-64 just because it's "64 bits". Heck it's just a few extra DRAM sticks and a few million more transistors on the CPU, not like we're talking Ford Excursion vs Ford Taurus here.
...of course I don't know anyone that has even 2GB of memory in their system, much less 4GB or more. So I'm sure that demand will follow well after supply. Let them make it stable, and give it to us for free or next to nothing, and maybe we'll buy it. What will be the big deal.
Sorry, I know this is long & wordy, but it's been fun. Edit to taste.
anonymous
Re: date formating on 'the inquirer'
Regarding the letter discussing the confusion over date formats in
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=8742 - there is already an
international standard for date and time formats: ISO 8601:2000. It was ratified as an international standard in 1988
already, yet many people have still not made the switch. Especially on the Internet, with the wide variety in audience
and their background, use of the international standard is highly encouraged. If the Inquirer should consider a new
date format, choosing this one would probably be the best idea.
For more information, please see:
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/iso-time.html
Regards,
Youri
Article: Paul DeMone thinks no one wants 64-bit apps
I would have to summarily disagree with Paul's reasoning. He says the consumers have no need based on the fact we
all do not run out and buy an Ultra for us and the kids at home. I would love the ability to run 64 bit applications
for the performance increase the amazing impact it has on my phallus. Contrary to Paul, the reason I do not purchase a
machine from S*n is because they do not have support for my legacy applications. This will be the same reason I will
never purchase an Itanium for my home. AMD is bringing a 64 bit solution to the masses without compromising performance
on my legacy applications.
The reality for Paul is that there will be a market and a need among the masses for 64 bit applications when Intel is damn well ready to make a processor for them.
On a side note...
Paul is beginning to come across as a little self-righteous.
http://www.aceshardware.com/forum?read=95027119 "Nice to see universities are still fostering the open mindedness and independent thought that you have brought to this assignment. " I am glad Paul is open to Mike's independent thought without resorting to trusty old ad hominem. (see? I too can spout pseudo-intellectual b@#$s#$%, pardon the Saxon)
Signed,
Joel
Re: Intel and AMD's business models are dead - No one needs a 64-bit chip
Come on now Mike, you can't really be serious. In so far as the 'average' user does very little that is demanding of
their computers, then indeed you may have a point. But in reality, faster and better CPU's in turn lead to better more
powerful applications and solutions. Moving to a 64-bit architecture allows for better scalability and performance for
both software and hardware, with less need for the higher clock speeds seen in 32-bit CPUs. Also, faster systems enable
software developers to write better, less buggy, applications as there will be less pressure to resort to 'untidy'
coding techniques just to squeeze better performance from low powered systems. Maybe real-time photo-realistic games
will be just around the corner and systems that can support these applications will be affordable to the average user.
No matter how powerful current systems are, there is always a need for more. Who wants to wait 10 hours to convert a
DVD movie to DivX format for instance? As systems become more powerful, software developers will surely find ways to
make use of all this power, and fuelling the demand for even more.
Regards
Anonymous
I agree with you on the matter of 64Bit computing. Not all of us consumers may need it but we still want it. I know for a fact that 32Bit is more than enough for me right now, but I can guarantee you that I'll still be one of the first ones pre-ordering the Athlon64 in September. That's how it is with everything even with cars, you have people adding horsepower to their cars even though they don't race or drive faster than they did before but they enjoy the piece of mind know that they have all that power under the hood. I back you up one hundred percent man! We should kick those little Intel bitch's asses.
P.S. You should smack up that Davie guy in the face.
Email address supplied
Re: Opteron Workstation chipsets
Dear sirs:
What would be preventing use of the AMD-8151 AGP tunnel on an Opteron board? I thought one of the advantages of the AMD-8000's use of Hypertransport interconnects was that various components could be included as necessary. A server board could leave off the 8151 AGP tunnel, while a desktop board could do without the 8131 PCI-X tunnel.
I guess I don't understand why there would need to be a specific "workstation" chipset for Opteron when one already exists- just use all three elements of the AMD-8000 chipset, and get your AGP 8x, PCI-X, and I/O hub on one board.
My guess is that the first run of Opteron boards lack AGP support for a couple of reasons:
1) AMD are focusing the initial push into the corporate server arena, where 64-bit OS support (GNU/Linux, *BSD, and
maybe Windows) will be available and AGP is not needed
2) There doesn't yet exist a true "workstation OS" that will take advantage of Opteron's 64-bit features.
Non-server Windows will still be 32-bit, and not too many apps in the field are running on Linux yet. Thus, AGP is not
critically important yet.
I would guess that AGP-equipped Opteron boards will appear sometime around the launch of Athlon64.
Thanks
Jim
Subject: Centrino, et al
I just spend a couple of hours looking at notebooks at various retailers here in Houston, Texas. I went to three 'big name' vendors, and this is what I discovered:
1. Centrino is a new Intel "processor", which is divided into three separate chips. Each portion can be throttled as
demand requires, separately. The "main processor" chip is so much more efficient, because it only has one job to do:
processing. We don't know what the other chips do.
2. Centrino is "really small", so it uses far less power, thereby extending battery life.
3. A 1.4 GHz Centrino is twice as fast as a P4M 2.2... "at least"
4. Mobile Athlons are not recommended, because they have "compatibility" issues.
5. Centrino can be used anywhere, anytime, to access the internet.
6. I will have more sex, if I buy a Centrino based lap-top. (I made this one up - but this was the spirit of the
whole day).
What I DID find out was this:
A. EVERY AMD based system on display was set to the LOWEST CPU setting, even though they were all plugged in, IN
EVERY STORE.*
B. Every Centrino was set to the "adaptive", which for all practical purposes when plugged in means "fast".
C. All P4's (m and otherwise) were set to the highest CPU settings. as well
D. Via Who?
E. Transmeta Who?
F. $8/Hr and 30 min of training are not near enough for the average floor sales person.
G. Shopping for notebooks can be fun, when you know a heck of a lot more than the people selling them.
H. What's a Pentium M?
Needless to say, the say was quite "entertaining"... I am glad that I am not a "Joe Six-Pack" trying to buy one of those things. I opted for a Sony Z1A**, which is a small and light notebook, but pretty capable. I bought it at one of those local big name store, as the price was reasonably fair. I cold not afford to wait 48-72 hours, just to save $70 by ordering from a distributor... My first day out, I got 4.0 continuous hours on one charge, while doing word prossessing and spreadsheet work (nothing very intensive, I assure you).
Best Regards,
Bob Mueller
FN * Perhaps this is a manufacturer issue: Maybe the processor/software/mobo defaults to this setting, whereas the competition defaults to the highest performance setting. Maybe not.
FN **1.3 GHz, Centrino standard stuff, a memory stick reader, DVD/CD-R combo, 512K DDR, 60GB. 16K ATI mobility radeon whatever it's called... A pretty nice machine, and it feels solid, and really light compared to my old (and really broken) Toshiba Satellite.
I keep seeing all these stories about how there is a need for an Opteron/Athlon 64 workstation chipset. I think a
better topic or at least a more accurate question should be . . . When will there be Opteron/Athlon 64 workstation
class motherboards?
It's my understanding that as far as Hammer chipsets are concern that there doesn't need to be a platform
specific chipset (workstation/server/desktop). In fact, part of the whole point of integrating the SmartMP capabilities
into the Hammer core, was to eliminate the need for complex platform specific chipsets. Think about it . . . AMD has
already shown that the 8000 series chipset can be used in 1 to 8 way server, workstation and desktop configurations. So
in theory, since MP functionality is automatically handled by the CPU (utilizing Hypertransport) every chipset that has
already been announced, will support Hammer in a workstation configuration, this would include chipsets from VIA,
nVidia, SIS, ALi and AMD.
So the real topic should be . . . Will there DUAL/QUAD Hammer motherboards (uPGA 940/ uPGA 754) that have AGP 3.0
ports? Now when you look at it from this angle, all any motherboard maker has to do is include an AMD-8151™
HyperTransport™ AGP3.0 Graphics Tunnel and this topic can easily be put to rest.
Thanks
Vern
The business models of AMD and Intel among others (like apple) are actually, very much alive. Try to think of a time, at least in the U.S., when people only purchased goods to meet their needs. Excluding the great depression of the 1920's, I'm confident you'll come up empty. I'm also fairly confident that the consumerism model promoted and fed by capitalism extends beyond the shores of the U.S.A. People covet things, because the ownership thereof makes them feel better about themselves and may even make their lives easier or at least, a tad bit more convenient. Glorious things that…taste good, look good, feel good, sound good and promise a “better” life. The crux is, according to every study and happiness survey I studied in college, the evidence suggests that happiness is not dependent upon money or material possessions. But that doesn't stop us does it? Intel and AMD march to the drums of a majority of covetous consumers who spend money they don't have on things they don't need because it makes them feel successful, powerful, sexy, smart, happy…whatever. This symptom isn't going to change any time soon because it's socially promoted, accepted and reinforced.
Cheers,
Erik
[memo to INQ writers -- avoid irony. Ed.]
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=8745
Just had to say that I find it highly ironic that ATI is now enforcing this kind of "gag order" when they were the ones who leaked Apple's hitherto-intended-to-be-secret models with new ATI graphics chipsets about one and a half, two years back (for which they paid dearly in terms of their relationship with Apple (and Steve Jobs in particular)... some people even say that it directly led to Apple seeking out Nvidia as a graphics partner, when, previously, they had been pretty happy sticking with ATI solely).
Email address supplied
I couldn't agree with you more.....But
Always a but. Yes no one would doubt that few if any use the current power of the computers. Few if any ever really turn it on to be honest. Those that do really only check the internet, look at porn and write and forward pointless e-mails to eachother. But how is this different then other aspects of life. My 12 year old honda with 187k miles and bad head still pass brand new audi up the hill to my local ski resort. I have gone off road with my 6 in ground clearance to places where most land rovers and Expiditions have never gone. Do we need little sedans with 260 horse power, do we need SUV to drive the the super market. In japan people still fold up there beds and put them in a closet. They live full lives sharing a 40 sqM with a family of 4. While others live on 100 acres in a palace of a house 3000 sqft. Ironically most japanies are far from 2 meters heigh, but have 3 meter high celling because some study done by someone found that higher cellings ment a lesser chance that there child would be a criminal. We buy 3 dollar coffees from starbuck when we could make better in less time then waiting in line at home for pennies. We drink diet cola, when it provides no calories, no vitamins, no minerals and the water in it is not enough to handle all the toxins that come with it. In turn your body actually has to take stored water to wash all that crap from our systems. We go out to drink so we can wait for some idiot to give us a $4 beer then tip him a buck for his troubles, putting up with music we can't stand, second hand smoke (don't get me started on how stupid smoking is), and annoying people we don't want to talk to. We could of just stayed home with people we like and grabbed a red hook from the fridge and saved more money then a chinnese family makes in a week. We set up a 100 watt flood light to shine on a painting that really sucks and we payed way too much for. We could of taken that money bought LED lights that would light our whole house for 100watts, framed our 1st grade picture we made for our mom, that she for somereason keeps stored away in a place she never goes and would only come acrossed by chance. People ride full suspension mountain bikes down a paved path and buy motorcycles, boats and other toys that never really get used. We drive our car and take an elevator to the gym where we will run on the tred mill and walk up imainary stairs paying good money so we can do this infront of strangers. We get our wifes and lovers (sometimes not the same people) a dozen roses when 6 would do, or a potted plant that would last much longer. If we really cared we would buy a bulb plant it in a flower box and have roses year round infront of that big window or on that porch that is storage for plastic furniture we never sit on, but still spend hours cleanning every year.
Now that is a rant. I lost my way abit but you understand my point. We don't use or need most things we get. But to be honest, I bet in the not so near future we will be hard pressed to have a computer fast enough. Remember when win95 came out or even 3.1. That damn word would take for ever to load and we held our breath when we printed or saved. Our greatly underpowered machines were just fine when using wordperfect. My dad used "First Choice" on our old 286 when Quattro Pro worked just as well and was 1000 time more powerful. We are heading to our next step. I wait hours to convert my Movies to Divx. What about fully automated voice activated domestic controls. "Computer channel 4", "Computer do we need milk", "Computer did I shower today".... virtualreality????? I saw that in a movie, why would I want that...... I am sure 10 years ago people said "inter what" "E-male?" "ATM machine????" (ok that is more like 20 years ago, just wanted to put it in there because I hate people that say machine, that is what the "M" is for). We were on the right track to keep up with the power of computers. I blame Microsoft, for repackaging the same basic crap with cooler Icons and pretty desktop pictures. OS2 had voice activation 10 years ago. There will come a time when people, smart people, will be incharge. Marketing departments won't exist (ok maybe I am dreamming). A time when people will realise how lazy civilization truely is and design software to do thing that we really don't need it to do. But you know what if they program it, they will buy it. Even if at that point the hardware they have is not powerful enought to make it work right. Then they will curse the creators when they should curse the marketing department that insisted on putting a minimum system requirments so low that the masses feel comfortable buying it when there computers, on their best days, can't run it even with a wind at it's back.
Yes, push on, push on..... I only hope AMD stays in buisness and keeps Intel on track to pentium 5 5,000 mhz processor (most likely the same Pentium pro core with a some ssssssssssse16 instructions set that now programmers really use and few people would even take advantage of). Of couse AMD will have a 2ghz processor named after a abstract greek god that is just as powerful, calling it of course a 5500 so the marketing department can justify there jobs.
But some day we will be complaining about our slow piece of s@%t. That keep freezing when trying to play 6 moves in 8 different rooms 2 of which have people in it, one actually awake but too busy listening to his MP3 of the beatles while looking for naked pictures of Marge (from the Simpsons) on the internet, while chatting with 12 people who's real names are secret because he may just want to kill them. Did I mention that he is exchanging MP3pro songs with thousand of people on the net just because he can.
OK, I am done, sorry, but thanks. I don't feel better but at least I let some out.
Email address supplied
I've seen a lot of debate about the need for 64-bit desktop computing. It seems obvious to me that voice recognition
would be much more practical if we all were using more powerful machines. I rely on voice recognition a fair amount and
I can tell you that there is plenty of room for improvement. I would guess that the productivity of many people could
be vastly improved if they didn't have to communicate through a keyboard.
I'd be interested in your thoughts.
AM
Orion targets all of the Sun ONE products at the Linux platform, coupled with the Mad hatter desktop software and the Cobalt platform means Linux is here to stay at Sun.
Sun deciding to clarify their position on distributions and that they didn't need their own is very different from saying Sun doesn't want anything to do with Linux.
Sun knows what its doing and its very clear to the rest of the world. Oddly not
the Sun haters at the inquirer.
Steve
On your article entitled "Paul DeMone thinks no one wants 64-bit apps"( http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=8737) I would like to point only that, as far as I can tell, it never was a 64 bit MS OS for Alpha (even if Alpha is 64 bit CPU) The reason for the port of Office (or any other app) was performance, every app running Windows for Alpha needed the FX32¡ software as an intermediate layer, avoiding this layer would have given great performance boost. Even if a 64 bit MS OS for Alpha had been planned f(and I am unsere of that also) the port of any desktop app would have been done for performance reasons (running in native mode) and not for 64 bitness (as most of desktop apps don't benefit at all from bigger address-memory spaces, neither form native calculations of 64 bit numbers)
Email address supplied
I have a couple of comments to add to Johannes' letter about partial localisation and Norwegian dates (feel free to pass this on to Johannes, including my email address).
I'm a Scot living in Norway, giving me a slightly different prospective. I live in a world of two languages, and change rapidly between them (including mid-sentence, or even mid-word, especially with my two young kids). However, there is no doubt that such partial translations look silly and out-of-place, and are a distraction to many people. The same turns up all the time when running English-language software on non-English operating systems ("Do you really want to close this document? Ja/Nei "). Of course, I have Opera set to "English" as the default language, so I see the problem here, but I fully agree with Johannes.
However, I think Johannes is a bit more confused about date formats than he thinks he is - unless the Inq. has *really* made a mess of its partial localisation... Norway, along with most of Europe and the UK, use dd/mm/yyyy dates. There are slight variations in the styles - when writing with pen and paper, a Norwegian will normally write "1/2-03" for the first of Febuary, but often "01/02/2003" for a more formal date on a computer. The confusion comes with the Japanese system (also used in other far eastern countries) of yyyy.mm.dd, and especially the utterly illogical American system of mm.dd.yy. As for number formats - the best advice is to drop the "thousands seperator", as it is of no benifit to anyone and just adds to the confusion. Then you just have a dot for English and half of Europe, and a comma for the other half of Europe.
David
Right, our typing speed has not increased.
But, and this is a very large BUT, I am in this business for more than 15 years now and if experience has taught
me one thing, then it is this: The more processing power we get, the more ways we find of using it, even if at the
start we don't know what it could be good for. I heard the same litany ("Who needs it...?") since the introduction of
the 386 and everytime those who preached it (John Dvorak somehow pops into my mind) were proven wrong as we always
found a purpose for the additional power. And coming to think of it, from the pictures I saw of you, you must be about
my age range and must certainly have made the same experiences? And if it is used for ripping a DVD and at the same
time encode another? Heck, that would be one of my humble dreams (or encode a whole DVD to DivX in under one hour...).
Mit freundlichen Grüßen, | With best regards,
Wolfram
As far as I know there is a huge need for 64 bit of th AMD.
Those who need to buy COTS clusters need Opteron servers. Becauise of low price. Itanium2 is not an option here.
And on the workstations side users in the Geoscience/ Petroleum business are getting sick and tired of Suns/SGI workstations. The users want Win64 or Linux. Not Irix og Solaris. AMD is going to give them 64 bit laptops.
Email address supplied
Subject: Eight deadly words?
It's unclear if Bill Gates actually said that thing about 640 kilobytes or not. There is that clear statement credibly attributed to him saying that he didn't say it, but that doesn't /prove/ he didn't say it. OTOH, if it's in a published interview with him, or from a press conference, maybe he didn't actually say the words ;-)
The words get rearranged as the quote goes around the Internet, but the date seems fixed at 1981, as at http://www.thocp.net/timeline/1981.htm (History of Computing) which blames IBM and Microsoft engineers for building the thing that way. Then of course Bill had to help to sell it.
But could you even buy a 640 kbyte PC in 1981? Could you use that memory then? The basic IBM PC had 64K and a cassette tape port.
It does seem plausible that a sourceless quote would be invented later, as users found 640K too small after all, backdated to the birth of the PC, perhaps invented as conjecture and then Chinese-whispered into a supposed direct quote from the one human face that could be made scapegoat for PC users' computer woes.
OTOH, perhaps Frubisher's Boston Business Briefing-ette still possesses the micro-cassette or 8-track tape on which the deadly words were recorded!
Email address supplied
reply to Johannes' mail (article: "4GB should be enough for anybody.
Not.")
...I don't think the date localisation of the inquirer is a big issue, because it can be easily overriden by browser
language settings. Though I am Czech, I have English as the preferred language in my browser. Frankly, I hadn't known
about this feature till I read this article =)
It could be a nice touch for some people, but not with that 'weird' English date notation =)
Regards
Mirek
I agree that the business model of Intel and AMD have gone to hell in a hand basket over the last few years. Neither one seems to have come to the realization that faster processors don't drive sales like they used to. The only reason they still have buyers for them is because there are still a lot of people out there that equate power with quality, but there are less of those every day.
The simple fact is a faster chip isn't going to make you work faster as you so apply pointed out, and at the end of the day the difference between Word starting in one verses two seconds doesn't justify the expense, and that every advance in performance means even less people need it.
Admittedly there will always be the person out there crunching large amounts of data and huge numbers that can use every bit of power they can get, but that is a very small segment of the over all computer market. It is because of them that I think you are wrong about the need for 64-bit processors, but they are a very small minority, and I think a batter question is do we really need another 64-bit processor? Not in my opinion, but it's going to make the few who need them happy since they are going to be getting what they once paid pricy sums for next to nothing soon, but that will do little for the masses. What masses need is computers that crash less and do fewer strange things, unfortunately AMD and Intel have yet to see that, so all we are getting are ones that just crash faster.
Email address supplied
SWEDISH PEOPLE are up in arms at suggestions that Motorola was the first to introduce a mobile phone, and say that it beat the US firm by miles, sorry kilometers.*
Actually they use miles in Sweden. A Swedish mile though is equivalent to 10 km.
Bjørn
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=8745
Amazingly ironic that the company responsible for leaking Doom3, and a beta
of UT warfare is threatening others to NOT leak their information...
Dean
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