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ATI previews hybrid Crossfire

GPU gang bang
Thu Dec 13 2007, 14:00

ATI PREVIEWED HYBRID Crossfire today, and it looks like it will sell a lot of units. It was an early test, but had some pretty compelling features for the non-hardcore gamer set.

The hybrid refers to ganging up an integrated GPU with a discrete one to give those crappy Best Buy specials the ability to game at a low, low price.

The idea is simple, if you take an integrated GPU and try to game on it, you will know the meaning of the word slideshow. The ATI 690G took gaming on an integrated part from a joke to almost tolerable, and the upcoming 780G will be much faster, 3-4x faster than that. Almost tolerable.

If you plug in a real GPU, the integrated graphics shut off to the great loss of nothing, and the worst discrete parts take it from there. Hybrid with the 780G does a few things differently. First, the integrated part is pretty solid, about the equivalent of a standalone ATI RV610 chip. This makes it tolerable, but when you plug in an RV620, it adds to the power already there, making for an uncomfortably close to tolerable gaming.

In the demo, AMD had some Radeon HD 3450s and 3470s on a 780G board. The 34xx chips ran Call of Duty 4 at about 30 FPS alone. Turn on Hybrid Crossfire and you are perilously close to 60FPS at 1024 * 768. Crysis and Unreal Tournament III were also shown off, and they all skipped a bit but ran quite well in most cases.

This won't threaten 3870 sales, but then again, you are talking budget integrated graphics boards in the $70-120 range with a $50 add-in card. You can't beat that for price, and if you need more, there will be a range of SKUs, most likely three 780G variants at launch, and at least two RV620 cards.

In the end, performance won't stun you, but it won't be as disappointing as integrated GPUs of the past. You can plug in many GPUs, basically all 3xxx cards should work, but it will step them down to the speed of the slowest part, in this case the 780G. If you put in much more than a 36xx part, it will step down to slower than the card alone, but it should work. Stay tuned to the message boards, you know there will be at least one moron out there who does this and brags about it. Mock him.

There are some interesting tricks that you can pull with Hybrid Crossfire that are unavailable with normal cards. Other than the 780G supporting two monitors and a second GPU adding two more, they team up in some new and different ways. The card that you plug the monitor into becomes the master, and when the need for speed goes down, the machine will idle the slave part to save power. This is a carry-over from the laptop hybrid variants, and what it means is that controller location does not matter.

Initially, this power saving is driver controlled, but over the next year, there will be more additions to the tech allowing it to pull more tricks like passing data across bus so you can more or less put the master card to sleep and drive video from the slave if that would save power.

Stay tuned here, there are going to be some interesting tricks that will are rolled out. All 3xxx parts should support this as well, and it will be marketed under the powerplay name.

The parts will start coming out in January with the 3450 and 3470 being out first late in the month. Soon after, 780G parts will be out, but the official launch will be in the CeBit time frame. With the parts, the driver support will come through, and more tricks will come out over the following months.

Last, we come to an interesting technical addition called Sideport. What this is is a single optional memory chip on the motherboard that acts as a local frame buffer. You can have from 16-128M of memory, most likely DDR2, and it acts like local memory for the integrated graphics.

In the end, ATI did two things we liked, made an integrated graphics part that could get out of it's own way, and on top of it, added a bunch of technical tricks. We think the tricks will be the most useful for geeks, and they will undoubtedly trickle down to the rest of the line in one way or other.

For ATI, having its name associated with the only integrated GPU that does not blow for games is the biggest win. Who knows, AMD might even be able to turn it into a selling point. µ

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Comments
Missed a key fact

Hybrid only works in Vista (yuk!) so will probably only have 2 people in the world using it. AMD needs to release XP drivers for Hybrid. If they did they'd sell more of the boards and more of their graphics cards.

One other thing, IGP (3400) and 3450 Discrete would both be passive cooled. Sure, not the greatest gaming rig in history but silent (as far as graphics).

posted by : James, 19 March 2008 Complain about this comment
Fusion

A step toward Fusion. It is clear that this is ATI/AMD's first visible steps towards fusion. This should allow them to allow you to have a Fusion CPU and add a dedicated GPU and not lose the benefits of that Fusion CGPU.

posted by : Stukov, 14 December 2007 Complain about this comment
Clock speeds...

Here: https://a248.e.akamai.net/f/674/9206/0/www2.ati.com/manuals/x800x850crossfiregettingstartedguide.pdf

Number 12 on the FAQ - card will continue to operate at their individual speeds.

posted by : McBalaban, 14 December 2007 Complain about this comment
Re: Too bad GPU physics never took off.

Yeah, thanks Intel. Now we have to wait for their discrete GPU for a Havok that takes advantage of a surplus GPU for physics calculations.

posted by : Josh, 13 December 2007 Complain about this comment
Crossfire X

there is absolutely no problem with mixing 3850 and 3870 in CrossFire X
Read small note under some picture here:
http://tinyurl.com/3xnk8n

posted by : londongeek, 13 December 2007 Complain about this comment
re: why the step down

Andy, I'd have to guess that they're using alternate frame rendering. So, unless they completely rewrote their crossfire drivers(and maybe not even then), it would probably be impossible to do what you suggest. 

Mike, that does seem like an interesting idea. It's too bad that GPU physics never took off.

posted by : Dave, 13 December 2007 Complain about this comment
sideport?

a new feature called sideport? my old Radeon Xpress 200 has sideport..... as well as my friend's 690G based motherboard, so it seems hardly new

posted by : nick, 13 December 2007 Complain about this comment
Free AA

I'm looking at this with interest as a way to improve AA performance on all cards. Even with high end R670's and R680's. Leave this turned on and minimize the performance hit with AA.

posted by : Sargatanas, 13 December 2007 Complain about this comment
ULTIE breakthru '7mar.

I believe 7XXG is same Crossfire as 690G, you probably turned off one display in Avanced options, as to turn off crossfire itself takes bios adj.
RECOMMENDED CARD OF CHOICE IS FIRE GL 3100V. I'd like to see better results for TOP w/more, Yet in ULTIE, theres too much clutter still labouring system in these early chipsets. its' $20 Board.

Signed:PHYSICIAN THOMAS STEWART VON DRASHEK M.D.

posted by : OLD_ULTIE_TOM, 13 December 2007 Complain about this comment
Dont think so

I dont think so; the GPUs have to communicate to one another, so if one is at 800mhz and the integrated is, lets say, 500mhz, then the 800mhz is still going to have to wait on the slower end. Cant say for sure though...might be other technical issues that we dont even know about...
Thats how Crossfire has always been though, lowest common dominator..

KUDOS to ATi, may not always have the most FPS, but they are always thinking

posted by : Copaseticbob, 13 December 2007 Complain about this comment
Physics?

What if we could offload some physic computation on the IG? So the limitation that the lowest performing card does not apply since they would do different things.

This would be perfect for mid-range gamers like me...

posted by : Mike, 13 December 2007 Complain about this comment
Physics?

I doubt an integrated GPU could do this yet but it would be really interesting to see if the integrated GPU could assist in some physics processing for games that support physics.

Or at least let the integrated GPU become dedicated to folding proteins for the Folding@home project?

Just thinking out loud.

posted by : Trent, 13 December 2007 Complain about this comment
and between discrete cards?

what about a 3850 combined with a 3870?
is it possible?

posted by : dskr, 13 December 2007 Complain about this comment
why the step down..

"but it will step them down to the speed of the slowest part"

This seems unefficient.. wouldn't it be possible to use both cards to as much efficiency as possible ??

Just have the weaker card draw as much as it can muster say x % of the screen.

posted by : Andy, 13 December 2007 Complain about this comment
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