Photoshop sheds 32-bit husk

please write full articles cause you make it sound like a windows app can use 4GB of ram.. which it can not.

"Basically 32bit Windows is designed so that EACH application can only utilize up to half of the 4GB addressing space, or 2GB. (the other half is reserved for the system)."

http://mpan3.homeip.net/blendermemory

Would be nice if you knew what you were talking about. Per process, in windows you are also limited to 2GB virtual memory, unless you boot with the /3GB switch in which case you may end up with around 3GB (if the machine boots at all)

And this limitation has nothing to do with physical RAM. Its all about a virtual memory limitation, exceeding it will not cause disk paging, it will cause the app to crash with an "out of memory" error no matter how much or how little RAM you have.

After all these years of discussing the need (or not) of 64 bit computing on the desktop, one would expect IT journalist to have SOME clue about this.

Barristers World Over Cried. From Barstow to PEI, Ultie Has Done IT. Finally Major Break For Ultimate 64 Crowd.
NO More Mindless Censorship of Memory. Skys D' Limit.

Again, from Words of MR.T:"I PITY FOOL WHO DOSN'T USE ULTIMATE64".

Wow, Gib Mesom.
I will Rapidly Enhance My Photo To Look alike Hon. Sen.Mccain. I can also state emphatically 32 bit was Tort ure.

T.drashek

The address space for any given process on a 32-bit windows system is divided into 2 2GB portions, one for section for the kernel and one section for the application. With some tweaking and dark magic, you can get the app to use 3GB of address space, but only if the app supports it.

MacOS X (and actually, just about any modern operating system) uses the exact same technique. They generally limit the app to 2GB.

You just do not understand Mac. You are an anti-Mac-ite.

Apple is never wrong, because it's called apple and its never wrong.

So there.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but where is it documented that OS X limits an app's access to just 2GB?

CRAP now how are all the fanbois going to justify Photoshoping on macs now?

Can they please patch Photoshop 7 so that it'll work on Vista please and thank you.

For all those people saying 32-bit applications can only use 2GB are only slightly right. If you run a 32-bit application under XP/Vista x64 it can make use of the entire 4GB address space (As long as its Large address aware). So, im afraid, you're all talking out of your collective arses. Sorry!

Actually the virtual address space for userspace applications under Windows (32 bit) is also limited to 2GB; it can be increased to 3GB, but only for applications that are "large address" aware.

Maybe you should have asked a cross platform developer:
A 32 bit MacOS application can allocate up to 3.5 GB without a problem. Just write a little malloc() loop and see for yourself. With Win XP 32 you are usually limited to 2 GB or less, with some tricks you can up that to 3 GB. And regarding Photoshop and other apps: Yes, Apple f****d up big times when they suddenly canceled the almost finished Carbon64 API. Nonetheless: You'd better get the facts right.

Hey guys, we're not getting enough pageviews today, so let's write an article that bashes Apple. 

Cool? Alright sweet.


Steve Jobs is the Devil and Adobe knows it... They cheated the Devil by going with 64-bit Vista!

Take that Jobs you pirate of silicon valley, I hope your feeling iSore about this...


Underneath there somewhere is still a 32-bit kernel with 32-bit drivers.

"Current Photoshop (and any 32-bit applications in general) can only address 4GB of RAM in Windows (and it doesn’t matter if you’ve got 64-bit Vista/XP), and amazingly, a lowly 2GB in OS X.

Yes. OS X limits RAM use on a single application to 2GB."

Any 32bit app on Windows can only access 2GB, not 4GB as claimed.
Not only that, but 32bit Windows (or any 32bit OS not using PAE for that matter) can only address a total of 4GB including any addressing space for devices (this means that your Graphics card, soundcard, etc.. all eat into that 4GB maximum). Therefore an application can never address 4GB on XP as it had PAE disabled in SP2 (or at least the section allowing high level memory addressing).
You can thank the people who made poor drivers for MS disabling it - Drivers were crashing all the time due to them not handling PAE requests properly.

Some apps under 32bit Windows can access up to 3GB, but these are only apps that have been compiled with the LARGE_ADDRESS_AWARE flag (usually database software). Very very few are. This also takes space away from the Windows Kernel.....but I'm going off topic here.

See:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778.aspx
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366796(VS.85).aspx

As the table in the first link shows, the comment of "and it doesn’t matter if you’ve got 64-bit Vista/XP" is wrong too. Its actually *2GB* under Vista 64bit, unless compiled with one of the flags mentioned in that table.
There is several, very good reasons for not giving an app more than 2GB unless it needs it (such as memory leaks) but I'll leave that for MSDN to explain (It does a better job than I can :))
Does this mean 64bit Vista apps can't use over 2GB? No - games and any other apps that will make use of +2GB in the future need to have the LARGE_ADDRESS_AWARE flag set. This then gives them up to 8TB to play with.

Common Paul - this is pretty basic memory stuff :)

...now when are they going to bring the rest of their lineup into the 64bit age? Premiere could benefit greatly from it, and I've lost count of the times I've managed to come up hard against the 4GB barrier in Audition...

So long and thanks for all the Phish! Adobe. Don't mind the market when it's just a corner we want...Squidge squidge!...(Joke)

After all...we should all have the highest capabilities extended..ooops!>.you mean put the hands on the car ossifer?
ooooomph!.(another joke)




So will this be a 64-bit conversion of CS3 or will it be a new version ?

to those bitching that windows 32bit has the same 2gb limit as OSX - you're forgetting one major point

OSX is a 64bit OS, so like XP/Vista 64, that 2gb limitation should not exist

Those of you quick to jump down the authors throat... not once in his article did he mention that 32bit windows could address more than 2GB of memory. In fact he never mentioned 32bit windows once.

All references to Vista and XP were clearly toward 64bit versions.

Try reading before you rise up with your pitch forks.

With all due respect to the posters above, all of the comments here are wrong! Please understand the WoW execution layer before you comment on anything 32-bit related on 64-bit Windows. The Windows x64 kernel was hand tweaked by Dave Cutler to deliver 'exquisite' (pardon the superfluous term) performance.

For EACH 32-bit applications that is compiled to be LARGEADDRESSAWARE, each such application is granted a flat 4 GB address space by the WoW execution layer in Windows XP 64-bit Edition. 

Please see the following public MS knowledgebase articles as evidence: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=889654 and http://support.microsoft.com/kb/294418/ specifically where it says the following: "Applications that are compiled with the /LARGEADDRESSAWARE option, as would be required to take advantage of the /3GB switch in 32-bit Windows, will automatically be able to address 4 GB of virtual memory without any boot time switches or changes to x64 Windows".

Thusly, given that the latest version of Photoshop is LARGEADDRESSAWARE, 32-bit Photoshop would indeed have 4 GB of virtual memory available to it if run on Windows XP 64-bit. 

Best Regards,

Stinky
Quod scripsi, scripsi

As person who has been conducting Windows XP 64-bit Tests and Windows XP-32 bit tests....

Mac OS X and Windows XP-32 bit can only address 2GB per program, and 4GB on the total system starting from the highest priority to lowest priority addressing.

This is smart because if you addressed 4GB of Memory to one single application, that would mean overriding the memory addresses that the Operating System is using.

Windows XP-32 bit has a FIX that allows up to 3GB of addressing for a program....

Remember that your video memory, L1 and L2 processor caches and memory systems like what is on the NB and SB and chipset memory are high priority.

Operating Systems were invented so hardware can be managed, so therefore hardware memory required to make hardware run is always at a higher priority. System RAM is at the lowest priority, so once high priority addressing is complete and reserved, you have low priority addressing while takes in as much as it could...

So that is how we end up installing 4GB of RAM on 32 bit system, but only have 3.3 - 3.5GB that windows detects for itself.

As for Virtual Memory, such a system fails if there arent addresses to swap in and out of main memory. 

I hear a lot of people who like using Virtual Memory as an extention to system memory and people on the street actually claim that they have 8GB of RAM...when they really 4GB VM, 4GB RAM.

I have windows xp 64-bit and 8GB of RAM and 8GB of Virtual Memory and Ive been running RAMDRIVE tests on different games and applications...with interesting results..

Oh yeah and Crytek was right, around 15 - 22% performance increase in Crysis on 64-bit mode.

What we need on softwares is LARGE_ADDRESS_AWARE certification. I also feel it would fill out my girlfriend's t-shirt nicely. Now we'b cooking with gas!

http://blogs.adobe.com/cgi-bin/mt-search.cgi?Template=sitewide&search=64-bit

Note the number of entries, written by Actual Adobe People(tm)

This one:
http://blogs.adobe.com/scottbyer/2006/12/64_bitswhen.html
is a huuuge one, discussing this very issue.

This one:
http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2008/04/photoshop_lr_64.html
is where the information in This Fantabulous Article came-from.

This one discusses the myths of 64-bit "magic", re Adobe code, etc:
http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2007/03/64_bits_are_mag.html

Can anyone tell what's wrong with this sentence?

"Adobe has announced it’ll finally launch their 64-bit version of Photoshop."

"Adobe has announced it’ll finally launch their 64-bit version of Photoshop."

it’ll singular ?
their plural ?

Vista SP1 at least enables 32bit ver to see 4GB ram