Luka, are you actually 12 and using your brothers advice while writing that??? Do you even know the history of AMD??? Do you even realize that they are actually TRUE QUAD CORE which will be seen by all when the next line gets introduced in the VERY near future that is - let me just guess here - an octcore which will show that FSB and the RAM issues invovled with that other company will finally come to light. Sorry that I actually have facts to go on here Luka, you can now go back to your CS and rule the world...

It's not stupid to buy a card that meets your needs at a price point within your budget. AMD has provided us with an alternative. Anyone want to see Nvidia become the Microsoft of the graphics industry? GeForce VISTA series, anyone?

Take a look at the computerbase.de review:

http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/hardware/grafikkarten/2007/kurztest_ati_radeon_hd_3870_rv670/19/#abschnitt_performancerating

I think we're seeing an evolution in video cards, not just for ATI. Nobody *needs* a video card that can do 100fps anymore - all of your LCDs operate at 60Hz, so they can't display or use more than 60fps. I think video cards are going to be about minimum framerate, if you can get over 30 then you're OK. The 3870 gets pretty close to fitting that bill for $219. If you have a 1900x1200 behemoth then do Crossfire. Video cards are only going to get cheaper, perhaps the day of the $800 monster is nearing its end.

Please post a few links to reviews of the new card, thanks. Here is one I saw and I haven't read it yet, but will do now.

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/AMD-Radeon-HD-3800,review-29753.html

Does anyone have any direct comparison playing the latest games?

I do like the minimum average FPS, that sounds good, like a guarenteed FPS.

Personally i think considering what the 3870 is fighting its doing incredibly well. by that i mean the situation of the 8800gt rather than the card itself. the "way its meant to be played" situation is, maybe only to me or maybe to everyone, starting to bare a striking similarity to antitrust behaviours. I'm not sure if they directly apply here. but isn't throwing bag loads of money at a software company to all but sabotage the performance of another competing companies products just, i don't really know, just wrong.

In non "TWIMTBP" titles ati are pretty damn competitive with a card that has near 100 million less transistors, and of those it has a lot are dedicated to the ring bus, UVD features and dx10.1 features which means not all of those 666 transistors are comparible to the 8800gt's. So its got an efficient architechture in games that aren't sabotaged before they are even in a playable alpha state.

While i've had a few glitches with the 2900xt and 64bit stability, its not a patch on the troubles i had with 64 bit stability with a 8800gtx. 

The other thing reviews seem to miss would be this, because of ATi's seeming reluctance to drop in more ROP's and texture units its highend fps rate is severly limited when its at its worst and can only do 8pixels per clock(i believe the rops work at half speed when using FP32 numbers). but this doesn't effect mimimum framerates as much. when will all reviews show average max and min. one or two reviews showed the GT getting higher max/average but a lower minimum framerate. 

How useful are average framerates, semi, but what if a card is not getting lower than 30fps, but barely hitting above 60fps, and another due to raw power can peak at 150fps frequently, but often drops to 10fps. the highs outweigh the lows and can cause the average to be higher making the card appear much faster, when in reality, its not as good.

Personally i think "TWIMTBP" program needs to be scrapped in favour of both companies being able to work with game makers to make the best games they can, rather than one company being able to hold the other company hostage by buying performance.

Even more weirdly, isn't this kind of situation, where a company is almost actively sabotaged, the kind of things american's love to sue everyone over? ok, i think ATi are cannucks, but they must have an american in their PR department somewhere, they get everywhere.

Total rubbish, about 85% of the 'TWIMTBP' games run better on ATI hardware, so they don't 'sabotage' anything.
Don't you think ATI would be up in arms if they did? I understand the fear but it's clear it's unfounded.


AMD/ATI lost the battle on high-end ground. HD3870 is a joke card just like HD2900 was. It's terrible DX10.0 performer, and when AA/AF is applied it's even worse. AMD is in a deep trouble. They can't compete Intel, and now they can't compete Nvidia. 8800GT owns HD3870 in every possible way. It's $50 more, but you get a hell of more out of it. The whole 8800s series gives you incredible IQ/Performance. If AMD doesn't make enough money out of new Quad Core CPU and HD3xxx video cards...i don't think we will see them next year around the same time. They are alredy in huge debts, so good luck to them. Personally, it would be stupid to pick HD3870 over 8800GT.

Maybe you could play snoball at 150 & quick/big 4 gb game at 10, if it existed or whatever slows it down that much, yet so what? if next card can only 30-60, isn't snoball bad & quick/big much better than other test, its smooth to burp, "what if", yet speculation with no model number is deception.
t article is good. Certainly from 1XXX to 38XX Ultie is folding in, while XP completes itself.
thomas von drashek

Well you can't buy a 8800GT on new egg. You can get on the waiting list to spend $30 more for the slower part. Or you can order three versions of the 3870 for $219. The 3850 is available as well but only with 256MB but for $179.

Curious to see the power/price/performance relationship. Between the too

Around this time ALL the new stuff is 
coming out. The new Nvidia 8800 GT
might be better, but you can't find any
out in the stores. DAMMIT has a whole
system worth of parts that's going to
be release next week. 

I prefer AMD CPUs over Intel, but it's
a toss up on the graphics cards. ATI
card for WinXP systems and Nvidia
for linux distros ...

I figure by Xmas I should have a new
AMD mother board, 2 new graphics
cards, new CPU and all the other stuff
that gets put in a full tower system ...

I'm looking forward to Christmas ...

All information that slowly coming out, indicates the 3870 is a good card. So Im wondering where you get your information luka, that 8800GT beats 3870. Please post links, if you cant then please dont run off at the mouth talking about stuff you dont know anything about

Luka, why don't you actually go and read any of the several reviews done on the new ATI/AMD cards before you start spouting stuff. Yes, the 8800GT does run on average 10% faster, but also remember that many people are having serious problems with the cards being DOA and to top it off, they have been clocked so high as to have no headroom to overclock. Price-wise they are the same. If I can find either card at a decent price I would be willing to pick either one up. DX10 is a non performer for me because Vista sucks. Every review I have read states that the difference in performance compared to price is worth it. Also, the cards are super quiet. One reviewer stated he couldn't hear the card over his CPU fan. I can't remember the last video card I had that was like that.. Stop throwing FUD and let people read the reviews and decide if they want the card or not.

Reviews...They are all over the web.

http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTQxOSw2LCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==

Scott, here is one for example. Notice the level AA applied for 8800GT compared to non for HD3870 and it manages just about same performance. This is typical for major number of titles, simply HD3870 suffers from the same problem 2900XT had (AA/AF performance.)
8800GT might be short in supplies, but it will be in 1-2 weeks all over the place again. I won't mention bloated Catalyst Drivers...

Yes, the 8800gt does out perform the 3870 in most applications. However, good luck finding one that isn't marked up. You'll drop about $269.99+ for one, compared to $219.99 for a 3870. Right now, its a decent option. However, as the price drops on the 8800 gt's and they become more available, the 3870 will not be nearly as much of an attractive option. If the price of the 8800gt's drop down to the $200 - $250 range where they're supposed to be, nvidia won this one.

8800GTs on the market, 8800Gt would be a better card. But so far, they have only shipped 40 000, which is just about enough for ehtusiasts, but they are selling no can do to where money is really made, that is, to the OEM crowd.

NV screwd the execution this time, HD3870 is on the market without a rival.

I agree with Scott about people running off at the mouth which is uncalled for.
This morning while I was browsing Tom Hardware Guide, I ran across a link on their web page about the HD 3850 and HD 3870. Unfortunately the web page is gone, deleted just like Diamonds and Gecubes web page was.
I wish I was a little more awake this morning when I viewed the page.
The card only has one CON and many PROS.
The only CON is, is it's about 2 to 8 frames slower then a 8800GT but the PROS out weigh the CONS. 3850 is 8 frames slower, 3870 is 2 frames slower.
PRO #1, the card is built using a 55nano GPU and it takes less power so you don't have to buy a new 580Watt Power supply like you do with a 8800GT.
PRO #2, the card runs very cool, so you don't need 4 to 5 exhaust fans and a high priced power supply to power everything to keep your system cool.
PR0 #3, The card is a lot cheaper then the 8800GT and also, you save a lot of money not having to purchase cooling fans and a power supply. 
PRO #4, The cooling fan on the card is almost Silent compared to the 8800GT which sounds like a Jet Turbine.
PRO #5, Since the card runs so cool, it has a lot of headroom for over-clocking, so you can get those 2 to 8 frames that your missing and save a bunch of money.