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Linux is still not ready for the masses

Rant Let's get together and sort it out

THE GREAT LINUX debate still rumbles on, and looks set to continue for some time.

While market share has been creeping up on the desktop, it can't match the impact and use of Windows - yet Linux advocates will not tire of pushing their beloved Tux onto a public tired of Microsoft's efforts.

But the operating system just isn't ready for day-to-day use by non-experts. A mass of Linux fanboys will comment below and strenuously deny this, but those of us who are a little less biased, and have a chunk of common-sense, realise it simply isn't user-friendly enough to provoke a mass move from the much friendlier Microsoft Windows.

GUI Eye Candy
Like it or not, eye candy, special effects, translucent windows, etc, are inevitably going to attract 'normal' PC users.

The effect of these seemingly nice-to-haves should not be under-estimated in the battle to attract the masses to a new operating system.

Similarly to a eye candy, a swish, good-looking, highly usable and, most-importantly, intuitive user interface will bring users to an OS in droves.

Apple's OS X has begun to record advances in market share, and this has everything to do with an easy to use, attractive interface.

A number of Linux advocates will state that eye candy should be second to technology, form and function, but yet bemoan the lack of uptake of their chosen distribution.

Mark Shuttleworth of Ubuntu has recently come out and said similar things, asking the Linux development community to advance their interface to something along the lines of OS X.

Surely Shuttleworth is in a position to not only suggest this type of development, but to actively promote the development and push forward with his thoughts?

Too much hot air is wasted, when people in positions of power could be pr actically advancing development.

Again, people will flame nd comment that they are attempts at developing the GUI to have additional eye candy - but these effects are not standard in any large distribution, nor are they exactly bug-free or easy to install.

Unified Packaging
Seriously, installing applications on Linux is awful. Don't flame me or berate me with examples of how easy it is - it's not.

Half the time it's full of trials, tribulations, problems, and manual hacks - this is simply not good enough for a simple non-technical user.

If that's not bad enough, there is a variety of different packaging versions available - in which each major distribution seems to each adhere to its individuality. Learning one Linux distro does not necessarily mean you'll be able to work easily on another.

Ubuntu uses Debian packages, Suse and Redhat uses RPM, etc. Even the package installers work markedly differently.

Linux developers and packagers need to sort the situation out - embrace a standard packing movement and stick with it.

Each distribution should adhere to the standards set out, allowing Linux-developed software to be installed on every supported distribution without any problems.

When I say without any problems, I mean NONE. No manual hacks, no editing of obscure configuration files, no rebuilding of the kernel, no manually installing other dependent packages.

Run installer, install, installed. Like Windows. *Shudder*.

Support Major OEMs
It's pretty hard to support every device and manufacturer out there, but the Linux distributors could at least focus on supporting the major OEM product lines with installs that work correctly out of the box.

A recent experience with a mass produced, popular Sony Vaio left an installation with a wildly erratic touchpad, non-working sound, and a variety of other problems. Support requested on forums went either unanswered or gave vague answers which left the machine in a similar unresolved state.

You never know, you might see further OEM take-up of Tux.

Professional Support
Resolving issues on a per-issue basis, or yearly licence would provide Linux distributors with a source of income, and an increased user-base.

Some providers already provide a host of professional support services, but tailoring support to individual desktop users with a relatively cheap support cost can only benefit and help an increase user-numbers in the long term.

User Testing
I can't believe the majority of distributions go through any focus group sessions for feedback on their product.

I'm sure they'll say they do, but I can't believe the majority ever come-off favourably compared to OSX or Vista.

Get some marketing and technology-led focus groups together, formed of simple non-technical users, and try to evolve your product's design from a typical user's point of view - not a set of staunch 50 year-old Linux developers who've been programming away for Linus since Torvalds first whipped up an implementation of MINIX.

There's a long way to go before a single distribution is friendly and supported enough for the mass of typical non-techie users, but it isn't a far-fetched dream.

The Linux community should find common ground in the issues above, unite, and subsequently resolve the inherent, unaddressed problems with desktop Linux for the good of the masses - who are calling out for a usable, unbroken (read: Vista) operating system.

Stop splintering, fragmenting, and focusing on non-core issues, get to grips with the basics outlined above, and do us all a favour; replace the newest Windows with something other than another Microsoft iteration of Windows Me.

It just needs a collective use of the brilliant minds now at work behind the variety of distributions, applications, and core-OS, to come together and finally compete properly against the major commercial operating systems for the benefit of everyone. µ

Comments

Totally agree with you.

Title says it all. ^^
posted by : NitroTab, 13 August 2008

package manager religion

Firstly, the package managers form one of the main differences between distributions. Many linux fans would consider changing these managers blasphemy.

Secondly, RPM and Apt have not been replaced for ages, yet there exist way better package managers. The fact is that most users are happy with the current package managers and this is not likely to change soon, because newer solution have no proven track records.
posted by : Menno, 13 August 2008

where are the linux fanboys?

that say something about the current state of linux, doesn't it?
posted by : a reader, 13 August 2008

Big Gorillaz don't want it to be

The biggest problem is that the big Gorillaz of IT (both HW & SW) do not want Linux to be ready for the Desktop and do not invest ANYTHING to change things there.

Why ? They would not be able to suck money out of people's pockets because Linux is almost free. Another problem is that it's on a "constant diet" and you can use a piece of HW for 10 years with it (if it does not physically break) instead of the current 3-4 yrs.

SImple.
posted by : *n, 13 August 2008

Flame away

lol someone has not tried linux in a while....just more uniformed journalist trying to start a flame war.

Hate to break it to you but Ubuntu is far easier to install than windows. you can use wubu to install it on your windows partition like an application then when you reboot it has added itself to the chain menu and you can choose to boot to it.

Oh my sooo soo hard. that took 15 minutes.
Hardware support is nierly as good as windows and has fall back if it cant detect it...it will still run but might not get full resolution...hmm kinda like when you install windows.

let it update and lo and behold it finds my gfx card driver and installs....

guess what now that the gfx driver is installed I can turn on the eye candy...hmm kinda like vista...wait it looks better.

Sorry for the sarcasm but come on do some research before you start blathering on...

The reason linux has not caught on is because its free...thats why it took firefox so long to catch....because It doesn't ship with the system and all the people have been taught not to download "free" applications.

So you wanted flames...here ya go.

posted by : Bryan, 13 August 2008

YOU'RE RIGHT!

As a Linux "fanboy", (hell a UNIX fanboy), you hit the nail clean with this. The biggest issues with adoption of Linux, or any *NIX by the common people is the ease at which it can be used and updated.

Currently, there are just too many flavors with too many unique "personality traits".

Case in point, my wife won't use Linux because, if I die, she has no one to support it. She does not trust the "expert" on the net or over the phone. She doesn't want to have to think about it, she wants it to work, all the time and be easy enough for her to update and patch, if I'm not around.

Despite its short comings, Windows allows her to do that. When Linux grows up a little more, more people will use it. For now, Windows has nothing to worry about.

And the Linux fanboys are their own worst enimies.
posted by : Dr. Karl E. Taylor, 13 August 2008

ubuntu

eye candy now ships with ubuntu 8.04. it was crashing my desktop, i had to turn it off. it wasnt so cool anyways, ubuntu is gorgeous without it and now it works perfectly.

the linux world will work out these issues by converging to ubuntu on the desktop. all the different standards, incompatibility, etc. won't matter, because soon everyone will be using ubuntu. so all you gotta do as a hardware maker, or software maker is make it work on ubuntu. thats happening fast, and when it does, look out! maybe other distros will linger but they'll have to be ubuntu compatible somehow.
posted by : bradley, 13 August 2008

Comment

If the 4.0 release of KDE is any indication we'll soon have all the eye candy for Linux that we'll ever need. It looks just like Vista, yahoo!

Most of the points are valid especially regarding installers. However it is worth noting that there are some half dozen installer systems for Windows in use as well as MS' msi scheme. Most people are not aware of this because all of them work very well.

Don't hold your breath for change - wth, bloggers will always have 'LNRFTD' to write about when there is no news. Rather accept that qua the desktop a user is not running 'Linux' per se... the user is running RH or Fedora or Ubuntu etc.
posted by : hoohoo, 13 August 2008

windows xp

i introduced a bunch of newbies to ubuntu. its not easy to get all their stuff working but once you do, and you talk them through some stuff, they're totally set. you check their computer a couple of months later and it was as you left it.

compare that with windows xp, check it a few months later, and they have password sniffers, viruses, worms, trojans, etc. its hardly newbie friendly. you gotta know what you're doing to stay safe on windows. for newbies, maybe linux is better!
posted by : bradley, 13 August 2008

Surprisingly User Friendly for Free

I recently gave Linux another shot. I tried Lindows back in the bad-old-days (when ME ruled terra firma) with spectacularly poor results,- yes, worse than ME- but rethought my position on the whole penguiny mess when I saw recent YouTube vids of Ubuntu's latest.

Contrary to the author's stated opinion, I find Hardy Heron remarkably simple and user-friendly, even for a crusty Windows geek like me. It has taken over as my desktop of choice, and while I can't use it for everything (certain industry-specific programs will only run in Windows), I much prefer the clean, uncluttered desktop Ubuntu affords. The fact that I can configure it however I want is icing on the cake, and not at all difficult to do, provided the user has enough sense to Google "compiz fusion". The easy Add Programs interface is yet another example of how user friendly Linux is becoming, and it's a smashingly simple way to add jaw-dropping levels of eye candy.

I agree Linux is still largely the domain of nerds and booger-pickers (like myself), but it is a whole lot closer to mainstream than ever with the new Ubuntu release, and, be honest, you still can't beat free.
posted by : Justin, 13 August 2008

Unix sucks

And it's very foundations are rotten. It is a system that makes everything complicated when it should not be. No version of Windows, ever, has made me go online searching for the name of some obscure, stupidly designed text file to input the- vertical and horizontal!- refresh rate of my monitor from the specs in the manual. Have you ever read that Unix Haters Handbook? Everything in it is true!!

I think they should really scrap everything and start from zero. Maybe keep the Linux kernel, but get rid of the ungodly mess that is the GNU userland,X Window...
posted by : Orlando, 13 August 2008

not likely

linux is a collection of work from thousands of people with differing goals, much of it is hobby work.

They don't all see eye to eye, that's why there are so many different licenses, and two or three versions of everything.

I don't think you can tunnel that in one direction.
posted by : Andrew, 13 August 2008

All about the interface?

"Apple's OS X has begun to record advances in market share, and this has everything to do with an easy to use, attractive interface."

No, I disagree. More often than not, it has to do with people getting fed up with virus after virus after spyware after trojan. There's only so many times someone wants to rebuild their machine from scratch - and that's what is often required to 'recover' from some of the worst hardcore, kernel overwriting, malicious malware.

Once someone hears that Macs are far less vulnerable it becomes a major incentive. Now, I have installed Linux on quite a few of my relative's and friend's computers with only two of them ultimately going back to Windows. In each of those cases it wasn't the interface that was the problem, it was the lack of Windows compatibility that the users needed for work.

Of course the real advantage to using Linux is that it can scale to lower end hardware. Eye candy is nice for new computers, but for older ones, it's an exercise in CPU cycle stealing. Don't forget, there are many, MANY people who simply want to check their email and surf the 'Net, and you don't need Windows or eye candy for that...
posted by : C Hunnefield, 13 August 2008

as if for a phone/pda

also, here's an idea, design an operating system (GUI) as if for a mobile device... new iphone users don't go through a crazy learning curve (do they?)
cheers
posted by : scott, 13 August 2008

I kind of agree.

I don't really agree with the eyecandy thing (performence should be the priority) but a standard format for programs would be great. It's one of the few things I love about Windows, doubleclick the .exe, install, and you're done.
posted by : Nick Withrow, 13 August 2008

Agreed.

As for eye-candy, if compiz and compiz-fusion could be better integrated in the popular Linux distros, it's OpenGL-fuled 3-D magic would easily cause as much "Wow" as Mojave.

Package management is easy. Whether you are using RPMs or Apt. Most distros have a simple "updater" in their standard desktops that does all the back-end stuff without bothering you about the details.

You'll even get little pop-ups letting you know an update is available.

If someone wants to get fancy with packages and software, they probably won't mind getting their hands dirty.
From a "just work" stand-point, the default packages are quite good.

My biggest complaint about Linux is gaming. Many popular games are written for DirectX with no OpenGL option. This is a deal-breaker for me since my home PC is my gaming system. But FOSS can't fix that.
posted by : Jason, 13 August 2008

The success of Linux.

The distro's and varieties that can be found, in alarming amounts need to be replaced, and reduced to a maximum of three.

Make it look pretty as you say. Infact pendrive linux is very good for this.

There needs to be some kind of gaming standard. Alot of people still game on pc's and linux has no proper standard for this.

Give it a flashy logo and some marketing as well to make it look friendly as well.

setup a central support forum for linux, and build a knowledgebase very fast.
posted by : craig, 13 August 2008

Installation Componentisation

What ive noticed is the lack of a Industry standard Installation utillity for linux alike MSI and Installshield for windows, i believe out of mostly everything this is what hold linux back the most from the mass market as day to day people dont want to have to remember all the Command prompt slur for installing checkers on their computer they just want a few button press' and whey games a ready to go

also a linux standard directory system would be nice so all version have the same directory structures between distros alike that in windows that are clearly names for what they contain
posted by : Mauller, 13 August 2008

half,mostly right

Linux fanboy here who has been using xp for the last 3 months.

Compiz-fusion has better eye-candy than windows OR mac and apparently can run on intel integrated graphics.

Problems with installing stuff? Try gentoo, I have a laptop with xp that has significantly more trouble installing things correctly than portage. Portage is extremely easy to use (unless you make it one by choosing packages that are in development) installing a program requires nothing more than finding which one you want online, searching for the right name and typing emerge your-app-here, wait for it to compile or simply extract and BOOM, installed free app. Sure there are some things that are missing and for gentoo you have to do some tricks to get compiz running, but honestly it is incredably unified and keeps the ASDF installers from cluttering your desktop/folder whatever.

The other points are correct, and should be more compelling than "gui and installers." Simple things like making MPlayer not suck at sorting musing and movies and such and having a more unified interface would go a VERY VERY long way to improving the linux user experience. Getting people used to the home folder would also be a good idea. Many things need to be improved at high levels for people to be able to appreciate the little parts of linux that make it much more user friendly, things you only notice when you go back and use osx or windows.

Im sure I've forgotten something in here....
posted by : Hyperion2010, 13 August 2008

I'm just too lazy to Linux.

I've repeatedly tried Linux and it is getting better.

Actually, Windows can be maddening to install -- especially on older equipment where driver disks are long gone.

The difference is that I've almost always been there before with Windows problems and however much of a pain it is I know I'll win in the end.

With Linux. it's like parachuting into a foreign country. It's like when I first bought a computer in 1985 and struggled with MSDOS and manually configured printer drivers.

Until Linux is actually easier to install than Windows there's little incentive to move. And then there are the applications and hardware issues.

Everything works with Windows or Apple -- with Linux almost everything doesn't.

I'm sure that the future for Linux is to consolidate into a few brands that have a product which really works -- and have the muscle to persuade computer builders to offer it pre-installed and to get applications and drivers written for it.

posted by : fihart, 13 August 2008

Linux?

Over the years I have used many iterations of Linux (mostly Debian, SuSE and Ubuntu)- and it is definitely improving as the years go on - but I also find I have less time to play with the OS than i used to, and have the income to happily pay for an OS if it will save me some time. Windows XP is STILL the best OS for me, as it is stable (at least mine is), runs everything I want it to and I can play games on it if I want, straight out of the box.



posted by : Matt, 13 August 2008

Rev. n

Here we go again.

I trust all the supporters of the various OSs are keeping copies of what they post 'cause here's another opportunity to say it all over again.
posted by : Doug Glass, 13 August 2008

All quite true too

Yes, it's all true. There are just too many areas with issues or awkwardness, or elitism even, for Linux to be truly ready for installation on the desktop.

Linux pre-installed on the hardware is here now, of course. Splashtop, EeePC, etc, all work great.

Linux is also getting the necessary underlying technology for looking snazzy. KDE4 will help here a lot as well.

Application install needs to be as simple as Mac OS X - drag the file and drop, and click to run, from whereever it is. Application installation should be via an interface that is more like a desktop version of the iPhone's App Store than a tree list of dry text listing mostly irrelevant applications. We need ratings, more categories, better search, previews, and so on.

That all said:

When everything goes well, Linux installs are extremely professional and clean. The software is all pre-packaged and installed nicely with the system. The auto-updates also work for applications. Linux doesn't slow down over time like XP. It's a nicer power environment.

And at some point you have to release, and learn, and improve, with real user feedback.
posted by : JeeBee, 13 August 2008

Support the Move

I am very much a supporter of a lot of things Microsoft, but I love healthy competition (that isn't Apple). Another issue that is of the more tech nature is the fact that application development for a Linux operating system is nothing less than a 500lb gorilla when compared to developing for Windows. Microsoft makes hands down the best development IDE currently available, Visual Studio, this is not only a personal preference or bias, individuals in the field that have atleast a beginners level of experience with Visual Studio will all agree that the power of the IDE is unmatched.

For Linux, the closest alternative is Eclipse. It has come a long way, but using it can sometimes leave your fingers and eyes bleeding from the frustrations you run into. Many developers do not wish to develop for Linux because it is tedious compared to developing for Windows. Not to mention the terrible documentation and support available for Linux OS's.
posted by : deis, 13 August 2008

+1 bigtime!

"Many linux fans would consider changing these managers blasphemy."

OK, what do you want? Do you want purity or do you want market share and to give Vista the tub-thumping in the marketplace that it deserves?

Great commentary, thanks!
posted by : Mike N, 13 August 2008

Agreed...my mom can't use linux.

Until my technophobe mom, can use linux... it will never be more than the fun niche product it is.

Save your flames tux fans. its a fact. My dear almost windows literate mother cannot plug her Fuji camera, or her damned Dell printer into a nix install and "just use it".

if you can get linux to that point... and clean up that ulgy ass menu system.... she may use it. And so may a lot of others.


posted by : Beecker, 13 August 2008

New Linux User

I consider myself a "normal" user as the author likes to put it (the only programing I've ever done was on an Apple II back in 1987) and I have recently acted on my curiosity by installing Ubuntu Linux on the second hard drive on my 6 year old Sony Vaio about a month ago.

Guess what?? I'm actually very impressed by it!

The interface is wonderful, I can run practically any document or media file, and it cost me nothing. I also find that the GNOME GUI is fairly intuitive in it's design, and is capable of doing almost any regular function that can be done in Windows.

I do admit there are some things that I'm not wild about, such as these two:

1. The fact that you may need to type in commands in the Terminal box from time to time to change settings, which is a pain if you have been a strictly DOS user (as far as command lines go). Today windows has pretty much eliminated the need to use the DOS prompt.

2. Sometimes the programs you can get aren't that great of quality. The Linux driver for my webcam doesn't create as good quality of a picture as it does in Windows. If there is a driver, it's usually a pain to install because of problems presented in #1.

Really these are minor problems that can be remedied; depending on your standards for a computing experience, can be considered trivial in comparison with the problems riddled with Windows. Any "normal" user knows these problems well: feature and resource overload, viruses and malware and most importantly, cost...

If a machine can go online, do word processing, run a variety of software programs, play video and music, then what else does a non-enthusiast person really need? (Look pretty too!)


And I don't want to sell Linux short, it runs a lot of stuff very well (which is why enthusiasts use it) and is constantly evolving; if something won't work on it or doesn't run well, you can almost bet that it will be improved.

So in conclusion, if Linux is not ready for a mainstream audience, then what makes me so special?



posted by : TonyT, 13 August 2008

And yet more reasons...

Ubuntu is certainly the "go-to" answer for Linux fans who refuse to believe that it's not ready to step up to the plate yet.

The last "stable" release of Ubuntu saw fit to introduce a new "install from windows" system that hadn't had the benefit of a full trial, new KDE interface, Beta versions of Firefox, and sundry other improvements that, while noble and interesting, rather defeated the purpose of a "long term support, STABLE" release.

An LTS release should be hammered til the bugs stop flowing and then released. Instead, we get an experimental mishmash with the typical Linux attitude of

"Yeah, that doesn't work but we stuck it in anyway. It'll be fixed when the next one gets released in 6 months. Eeeehhhhh, fugheddaboudit."

I think the day Linux gets subjected to the level of hacker attention that Windows gets, is a day when a lot of Tux fans will be very red faced indeed.
posted by : Some Bloke, 13 August 2008

lets not replace dictator with another one

I'm using linux and honestly I don't want everyone to use it. I avoid ranting about it and let people do what they want. Linux is a operating system from a geek to geek and I think it should stay as it. It would be nice if it had larger hardware support but as long companies like Intel supports I will survive (centrino ftw).

What I really hope is that software would turn more operating system independent so that you could use same software and choose OS of your preference. More open standards would make you less depend from any software.
posted by : obi, 13 August 2008

googleOS

C'mon Google, where are you???
posted by : Jagdeep Rai, 13 August 2008

Difference of security!

The human race is divided in different ways, linux too which offers some extra protection because of it. Like some medicine we take cannot be taken by the other sex/races this tells me it secures boundaries that have to be surmounted by the nasties out there. That's a good thing.

I agree its hard to find a computer to match a linux distro at a 100%. I think a good compromise on security would be HP Toshiba Dell etc.. [looks like it's going this way] would adopt a distribution of their own for the wanting public even for there old recycled machines not on the regular market any longer.

I'm waiting another year to re-take linux to see if this happens.
posted by : Phil, 13 August 2008

About app install

Well, i'm a linux user im my job, and i agree with your arguments.
But, the install aplications lixe windows (next, next, finish) ins't the best method in my opnion.
I like of mac os x method, drag and drop to applications and it work! This is easy to come to linux.

Linux need more integration! I use xfce+awn to make the mac os x look to linux, but is a poor administration of shortcuts this need awn-manager to add shortcuts!! In mac os x drag and drop and voila!

The linux programers need more of the KISS concept... Keep It Simple, stupids!
posted by : Ozzy, 13 August 2008

the power of...

linux is not more dificult to use. its just that the world is use to windows.

PERIOD

tell me why cobling through a windows update or even installing windows drivers is so easy to everyone? because theyve been doing it forever. when in most linux distros its set up right during the installer. or not more then a click or 2 away.
posted by : average person, 13 August 2008

Linux is for...

... people who know what the hell they're doing. Everyone else will be happier if they stay away.

Linux is strong because much of it's built with a 'no crap, get the job done' mentality. Ugly, efficient, effective.

Loading it with ancillary junk is unnecessary: Vista is already available.

posted by : Scott Jordan, 13 August 2008

Linux is ready for the masses

Just so long as the masses don't want to do anything out of the ordinary with it, and tbh most of the masses don't. People generally want a system that will get them on the internet, get their email, display the latest Paris Hilton porno, do some quick WP or a spreadsheet, remove some redeye on yer pics and play the occasional game. Most Linux distros will do this and once installed initially will remain unchanged and working a lot longer than an equivalent Windows (whatever flavour) installation.

The but and its a huge, Aretha Franklin sized, but is that the back catalogue of Windows specific software is huge, and if the user needs it for something and it wont work under wine then dual boot beckons and we all know if you have a dual boot you spend 99% of your time in one OS and 1% in the other.
posted by : Efros, 13 August 2008

I totally agree with this article

I have tried Linux numerous times over the years but have never really been able to just use it intuitively without rtfm.

I tried Ubuntu8.04 a couple of weeks ago to see how linux has progressed since I last tried it. I must say it has come quite far. Most of my hardware worked ok, even my xonar soundcard.

But it is just so damn annoying trying to understand what I needed to do to get my wireless card and graphics card to work. I found a button that said something about installing my wireless card drivers so I clicked it and it asked me for a firmware binary or something. WTF is a firmware binary? The average user wouldnt have a damn clue either.

Yes it's fine saying oh you need to do this, this, that, then open console, and type some sudo ninja stuff, but most people will be scared off by such simple things.

The average joe just wants to click a few buttons, maybe download drivers, click some more and expect it to be done.

Then there is the rpm and apt packages. What is the difference? Why can't all Linux distros just use a single universal one?

Oh and here is the biggy... Have any of the Linux geeks looked outside into the real world lately? You should have noticed average joe and jane are influenced by celebrities and shiny things.

You are not going to get people using Linux when a lot of Linux websites look like this:
http://rpmforge.net/user/packages/yum/
posted by : agreed, 13 August 2008

Cos of the "Smug Bastards"

I once commented in a newsgroup a few years ago that program/application instillation should be simplified to encourage take up (I was struggling to understand why suse wouldn't install a nvidia driver, despite instructions), it was suggested I was an idiot and virus writers dream. Yay Linux. He even invoked a fruity OS in his retort. After my rather calm rebuttal he descended into childish name calling and nit picking about reading headers and other boring anus licking stuff.
Stopped me trying linux for a while that did. Even recently I tried ubuntu and got bored of having to edit xorg so I could use my monitors resolution and other tedious sudo root bash -h -s rubbish I gave up again. Life's too short and I am a gamer so had to keep switching back to XP. I am now using the 64bit broken OS without any problem.
posted by : Les Steel, 13 August 2008

create the need


If your tech savvy and only need a basic internet box, Linux is cool, I certainly won't argue with you, and it's a little better each time I check it out.

Windows is dominant for the following reasons:

1 ease of installation
2 availability of hardware drivers
3 wide application selection
4 standard 3d gaming interface
5 wide third-party support and development

Consider this. I have seen gaming to be a huge incentive to upgrade Windows versions when the newly-purchased game requires XP or newer, and the user has been running some older version of Windows. If they need it, they buy it, simple as that.

The question to ask is, how do you create a *need* to use Linux? The possible answer is, you provide the 5 things listed above, and then you provide something totally cool that only runs on Linux. :-)
posted by : bz2klag, 13 August 2008

Yes and no

With Ubuntu Linux has become very easy to install as long as you have standard hardware. Where it looses out is if you want to change resolution or add hardware that is not in the kernel. At that point it sucks big time!
But it has some a long way and the price makes up for a lot of the short comings. That and Vista is so blotted it makes going to Linux more attractive.
posted by : Andrew, 13 August 2008

5 things to improve Linux

I think we just need to realize what average user need in OS and try to deliver:
1. easy install (x) but which distro? (-)
2. eye candy (x) but not intuitive usage (-)
3. drivers - almost done but still in progress(broadcom), - dif. distros dif pakage
4. wine and games should work well not rubbish
5. more consolidated support not 2million forums and threads
I really think it should be two distros at least, for average Joe and for power users. Then we could solve these problems much quicker. And maybe then hardware producers and serious companies like adobe would think about linux more..
posted by : Alix, 13 August 2008

Same old myths

How easy it is installing Linux is irrelevant, how many people install Windows? More than 95% of users never install anything, they come pre-installed, that is why people are using Vista no matter how bad it is.
When PC's come installed with Linux, people will use Linux. Asus have realised this, sadly this article hasn't!
posted by : Fred, 13 August 2008

Thanks for the laugh!

I mean really!

To the author of the piece --

* Want eye candy? Go load compviz. Add a little google gadgets and let it be done. Nor is transparent windows an issue either.

* I find it interesting that you complain about the differences of Linux having multiple repositories systems when Windows has NONE. Yes Win has a security update system but that's it. If I want a piece of software I have to cruise websites looking for it, do the download then do the install. Nor are all Win installs created equal. Using either Adept/Yum/Synaptic repository software I rarely experience a problem with installation.

* Hardware support. Yes the bane of Linux for sure. But my dear friend, it is NOT linux's fault. Go take your gripe to the OEM's themselves. If an OEM is not going to either provide a driver or at least release the specs then what's a poor linux developer to do? You are addressing the wrong venue.

* The VIAO? Sorry. Again it should be addressed by the OEM. Or you could have bought preinstalled on a Dell, HP, or Lenovo system. 5m in sales of Linux based eePC's can't all be wrong.

* Cheap professional support. First its an oxymoron on its face. But I tell you what, go try Microsoft's per minute dial up 'support' and see if you are satisfied. Then take two nitro pills when you get your phone bill at the end of the month.

* User testing? MS Vista. Its looks like a camel. And if it had user testing then explain DRM? Nobody wants it so why is it there?

I could go on and on with the comparisons and knocks. Is there a lot wrong with Linux? Yes but its not what this author intoned. A better system than QEMU for managing virtalization. Better implementation of wireless connectivity. ACL control for most distributions is nonexistent. Would love to see the entire structure of /etc .conf files moved bodily to a XML like format; the xinetd style stinks.

But I'll close with this thought. My wife and daughter are techno illiterates either Windows or Linux. I set them up on Linux with --

Firefox
Thunderbird
Open Office
Skype

That's all they use. They're happy, I'm happy. All they have to do is point and click just like windows. Its all 90% of what most computer users do. I don't face the ecosystem of trojans/worms/viri. I don't wonder if WGA is going to hose my system and the system update I have croned to trigger every saturday night while I am asleep works flawlessly.

The question I have to ask -- What's your excuse?
posted by : JohnMc, 13 August 2008

Is friendly, but only to its friends

Linux is not easy to use, not even Ubuntu. Uber-geeks use linux and they think, "oh, how easy it is to mount this RAID array, you only has to write 15 lines of code!". Well, I´ve been using windows since 3.1, never had problem setting up my video card. Recently I´ve tried to change the resolution of video in Ubuntu for a few days, then I just quit. Uber-geeks will say that I´m stupid, maybe I am, but It´s me who assist a lot of friends when they need help with their computers. So, if it was impossible to me, they wouldn´t even try then.
To linux developers, I suggest they to talk to those with really low knowledge, and make things more intuitive for someone without PhD in computer science.
posted by : Curious, 13 August 2008

I like Ubuntu but Ubuntu doesn't like me

I tried to switch to Linux. Hard. I forced myself into Linux for several weeks. But I couldn't make myself forget that everything is easier and more readily available in my old pal XP. Soon I found myself wiping my Ubuntu partition to make more space to my torrents.
Torrents... how can I live without uTorrent and ImgBurn? I couldn't. By the way, It's nonsense to switch to Linux if I'll have to rely in a Windows emulator (and it IS AN EMULATOR!).

Then they released another big Ubuntu iteration. I wanted to like it, but it crashed in the very booting of the freaking live CD! My PC is fine, there's nothing wrong or exceptional about it. Then I gave up. I won't contact support, I just won't give another try.

I know that someone worked hard and for free to make it work as good as possible, it is so full of love and good intentions. But that was just inexcusable, sorry.

posted by : mycelo, 13 August 2008

Whats the point?

I understand the article and all the points he is making. In fact I have read the exact same thing many, many, many times before, several times on this very site. All that ever comes of these articles is a flame war of linux lovers vs haters. Nothing else ever happens. Isn't the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results? What I find really ironic is that the same type of journalists keep writing this same story about how linux developers need to stop doing things the way they are doing them to get different results. Maybe they should take their own advice and stop writing the same type of articles? Hmmmm...
posted by : PCLOS user, 13 August 2008

Excellent Article

Each year I try at least one install of Linux to see if it has caught up with Windows.

This year I tried the very latest Ubuntu installation on an NForce II motherboard with an ATI Radeon 9800 video card - you cannot get more "mainstream" than that combination.

Tried running a 4-year old game that runs under Linux (EVE), it failed due to video issues. Tried to load the ATI Proprietary Linux drivers - it quickly devolved into hacking as the loader would not load no way no how.

Oh, and it still wouldn't run the 4 year old game.

I've managed teams of up to 50 developers in enterprise software deployments involving dozens of systems - and could always find someone who "knew the answer." The same is not true of Linux, and until it is it will remain a "wanna-be."

Sorry, not ready yet.
posted by : Bill, 13 August 2008

re: Orlando

The X monitor configuration has been pretty automatic for quite some time. You ought to give it another chance.

Certainly I understand your feelings about unix text config files.

The great ting about them, though, is that mostly they're all under /etc and they're text files.

Have you ever tried to find the file in Windows where you set the XY resolution of your monitor?
posted by : hoohoo, 13 August 2008

HUH?

My parents used Fedora for 6 months and liked how their favorites menu didn't have a stupid "hover-over" scroll. That's all they said about it.
posted by : wuh, 13 August 2008

It's not the swish...

It's the consistency -- and Apple's reputation for consistency, deserved or not.

Drag'n'drop install on the Mac is a bit of a farce: Many users today *cannot* drag and drop, and *cannot* understand the desktop metaphor. ("I see a lot of little boxes...") For the subset who do, d'n'd is certainly an epiphany, but "click here and have it" is even more important. Linux does not do too badly here, these days, but Synaptic needs a little more polish. (The GNOME app installer, while useless and hidden, is really well-designed in concept for accomodating users who just want something and don't want to know how it gets there.*)

This is something you can learn from the Dock, which is something Apple (to everyone's surprise) sort of got right. These same people don't know or don't care if a program is running -- thus removing the need for that knowledge is a big boon to them. Want to read your mail? Click the mail.app icon, always in the same place. Learn that the little indicator means that mail.app is still running? Close it and your computer gets faster -- but you could still work in the meantime.

(Apple's butt really got saved on this: Many interfaces realized the same thing, and tried it prior, but OS X came on the scene just as memory got cheap enough to contemplate this kind of workflow. In the era when you'd have to swap for 20 minutes to page any two popular applications in and out, this just wouldn't have worked -- and if you remember, OS X launched in the last two or three years of that era. These days, it's inexcusable to run a desktop that has to swap during a basic 'letters and web-browsing' workflow.)

Contrast that to a recent adventure with GNOME, where I realized I did have to explain to a user -- "First, look to see if it's running, then check the three other desktops, then if it is running click in the task switcher, and if it's not running click the shortcut I threw into the panel on top." In the (stale) version of GNOME I'm using, there's no obvious way to set the behavior of the launcher -- it relies on the application to do the right thing when you start another instance, but the application (vmplayer) wasn't written to do the right thing.

The bling does not hurt, and many people who don't know better mistake the bling as the magic factor. In reality, as bad as some of Apple's recent interfaces are, they still employ a high percentage of people trained to try to be smart about the underlying use cases.

*Ideally, we could try something like magnet links, where package://canonical_name_UUID URIs could be handled by package managers. A project could tuck the code and binary packages away, and put the link on its homepage, so basic users could click and quickly install the software as packaged by their distributor. Authors would have to trust the distributors (and tell people to whine to them if a particular one has a problem...), but it'd really handle the clueless use case.
posted by : A. Peon, 13 August 2008

To me, it's all in how you look at it..

Whether or not Linux is ready for the desktop is an issue that's dictated by what a user requires.

For some people, for whatever reason, Windows can be better.

My needs may be different though, and I've found that Linux suits them well. For me, Linux is certainly ready for the desktop and is the better choice.

lp
posted by : lame_penguin, 13 August 2008

Newbie, intermediate, pro

I think the linux distros ive tried would work great for the newbies and pros. But when you come from windows and think you can do whatever you like there and then try linux and think you should be able to do anything you'd like there aswell - you'll most likely get in a pile of trouble. Many times so deep its impossible to get out. Thats what I think. I'm glad theres alot of howtos out there but when you have to search for a howto for any and all issues - there's something wrong.
posted by : Guy, 13 August 2008

Right...

"Of the two, On is the best feature. It is a clone of the Asus Instant-On stuff, and likely works in the same way, but no details were given at the launch. On is a flash-based barebones Linux install that gets you up and running, on the Net, and with much of what you need to run the computer in instantly."
posted by : Jim, 13 August 2008

I agree too!

...totally. I have installed Lunix (mostly different releases of Ubuntu) many many times. Mostly everything works great, actually. No hardware issues, apart from screen resolution for some strange reason (sometimes, sometimes not).

Don't get me wrong, but the biggest problem I have is that I really want to use Linux, but I want it to work flawlessly, and "feel" stable and intuitive. And every time I end up unistalling it. Windows has it's faults too, but it just seems more... mature. Just like you described.

God I hope someone is listening to this, 'cause I've got a pair of computers perfect for Lunix and they just sit there waiting for when the right time comes!
posted by : epatnor, 13 August 2008

Been trying Linux periodically since 1996

My first encounter with Linux was after I actually bought boxed(!) version in a shop in Helsinky when I was there on a business trip in 1996. Since then, I try every year and I have to say that it's getting better.

But the author is right. The last I tried was with the latest Ubuntu and Fedora.

None of them installed on my main computer. Hours and hours later it turned out that I have "stupid" vga card from Matrox and was told, as the author said, to do text install and then edit some files somewhere. No, I already wasted two days (forget 15 minutes install).

Then I installed both on my laptop and as I said they are getting better. Skype installed as on Windows (double-click on the installation file), but looked horribly half-finished. Lotus Notes install was all editing, copying something somewhere and generally hacking.

No, I do wish the OSS wins, and I wouldn't be trying Linux for 12 years if I didn't with to ditch Win. But it's just not there yet. And the article is 100%. Please Linux supporters, bite the bullet, accept the facts laid out in the article, even if they are against your deepest-held conviction, and get it done. The SW world will be all yours.
posted by : Vasek, 13 August 2008

Been trying Linux periodically since 1996

My first encounter with Linux was after I actually bought boxed(!) version in a shop in Helsinky when I was there on a business trip in 1996. Since then, I try every year and I have to say that it's getting better.

But the author is right. The last I tried was with the latest Ubuntu and Fedora.

None of them installed on my main computer. Hours and hours later it turned out that I have "stupid" vga card from Matrox and was told, as the author said, to do text install and then edit some files somewhere. No, I already wasted two days (forget 15 minutes install).

Then I installed both on my laptop and as I said they are getting better. Skype installed as on Windows (double-click on the installation file), but looked horribly half-finished. Lotus Notes install was all editing, copying something somewhere and generally hacking.

No, I do wish the OSS wins, and I wouldn't be trying Linux for 12 years if I didn't with to ditch Win. But it's just not there yet. And the article is 100%. Please Linux supporters, bite the bullet, accept the facts laid out in the article, even if they are against your deepest-held conviction, and get it done. The SW world will be all yours.
posted by : Vasek, 13 August 2008

OS X is UNIX

Here's why Linux should be like Apple's OS X. OSX is UNIX. Do you have to know how to code UNIX to use an Apple Mac? NO. You just buy it, it works, you can install Office or Photoshop. Do you have to know command line crap? NO. It just works.

When LINUX becomes mature enough like UNIX OSX, then it will be accepted by the masses.
posted by : Chazz, 13 August 2008

Linux is garbage!

There no software for Linux. Anyone who disagrees with me is stupid!
posted by : linux expert, 14 August 2008

screw the rest of you, it works fine for me

It's running fine on my 5 machines at home, I guess you people just aren't as clever as me.

/flame on
posted by : fnord, 14 August 2008

As usual.... an obvious point is missed....

I've had a bunch of friends try and talk me into trying Linux. I always stop them with one word. Software. Adobe speceficly, but also my animation softwares including Lightwave, Zbrush, Modo and Maya. I don't give a damn how stable or amazing Linux is. Until the programs I use run NATIVELY on it, it won't do me any good. I think if Adobe made the plunge to Linux it'd give all the Microsoft haters a great alternative to high priced Apple products... and then all the companies that made graphics type apps would have to follow suit. Could be an apple killer actually. But, hasn't happened and probably won't.
posted by : Gabe, 14 August 2008

my experience with linux

I thought I'll try Ubuntu, and got a CD. The install went well. I logged in and found that my ethernet isn't working and I can't surf the net. Also I couldn't enable desktop effects because I'd first have to install nvidia drivers. After 2 hours of looking for ethernet drivers, I found a source code for them. But how the heck do I install? I googled again, and found many websites telling different methods to compile them. I tried all, and NONE of them worked. I joined ubuntu forums, and found that a person has compiled them already, I just have to copy-paste. No, that didn't work either. I asked for help, nobody replied except a person who kept telling me a long list of text commands to run and files to edit manually. I tried it all, no luck. Why can't I have a nice wizard like in windows in which I just have to click on "next", and everything is handled by the wizard? Why don't I get proper error messages which make sense to me instead of a jargon of alphanumeric strings ending in the word "failed"?

I thought I'll use windows to surf the net, and that won't be a big problem. So I downloaded nvidia drivers and double-clicked them. It started something, and then told me it didn't have permission to continue. I googled again, and found that I'd have to use command line again. By that time I had learned that "double-click and you're done" isn't the way Linux works. Still, I was eager to try a different OS, so I followed the instructions. And to my excitement.... installation failed. reason:it didn't have i don't know what for my kernel and it couldn't compile it either cause of some missing libraries. I downloaded what it required, googled how to install them, and... it required even more packages to install. downloaded again... and it still won't install. It kept telling me that it wanted more, I kept downloading. Finally, I was able to install the nvidia drivers and turn on desktop effects. But no, that was NOT worth the efforts.



I really don't know what those people who have posted above mean, when they say it's just a 15 minutes install.

Why DO I EVEN NEED TO TOUCH THE COMMAND PROMPT? why can't it be like windows where you just click on buttons which have labels on them telling you exactly what they do, instead of a balck and white screen where you need to type stupid commands?


NO THANKS, I'D RATHER SPEND THE MONEY AND BE ABLE TO USE MY COMPUTER, instead of going for a free OS which I can't use.
posted by : ssj4gogeta, 14 August 2008

It's true.

I tried Ubuntu recently and while it did install easily, seriously no hassles at all, I still couldn't install any of my regular software because it runs on Windows.

Are Linux allowed/able to install software designed to run on Windows?

If Microsoft weren't forcing Vista on us all, and instead were giving us XP+, then Linux would be lower on the OS menu. Vista has been the cause of me trying Ubuntu and finding that Ubuntu is ok but it's not quite ready for general use.

Linux, what's the story with installing printers, video cameras, video editing software, games, etc? I don't see this on the Ubuntu home page. Do I need to have the USB drivers installed BEFORE I plug in the device, or just plug it in and it will be ok?

Windows - who is the clown who thought it would be a good idea to knacker a device if it was plugged in using USB before the driver was installed? If it's plug n play then why does the driver have to be installed first, surely when the device is plugged in it should then "look" for the correct software, or encourage/wait for the install.
posted by : interested_party, 14 August 2008

L

This article is written purely for reader response. The inquirer has stooped to writing articles for no reason, with no content, and shrewd mythical bias.

All of what's written in the article is fud. Linux has eye candy, a windows like DE, and even an osx like DE. Installing software is also unified in linux as well. Debian has deb files with the apt installer. Redhat has rpm files with the rpm installer. For each distribution they have their own app installer that's unified for that distribution. Anyway using linux is easy enough. And for installing packages in ubuntu that could never be easier. There's add/remove app for installing new apps.

The only thing that sucks is that linux from a novice standpoint is quite confusing with how many distros are out there that do things differently. And that's where i think a good deal of people start getting confused and would be lead to the conclusion that linux has no unifiers.

Distributions have their own unifiers. You got to pick the one you like to use, and when you picked the one you liked to use, it's probably going to be different in some areas, like ubuntu compared to mandriva for example. And when you picked the distribution that you wanted to use, well then you're going to have to use it the way that that distributions community made it to be. Which means installing software on one distro is going to be different than installing it on another. Each distribution has different philosophies.

Anyway, we linux users need to go easy on users of other OS's. The best way i know that i introduce people to linux is when i'm fixing they're computer and i show them how i do maintenance with the mepis livecd, or show them how i do other maintenance with faunos from a bootable usb drive. That's where people find linux to be pretty cool.
posted by : Shamil, 14 August 2008

Is it time

for something completely different? When I was a comp sci student oh so many years ago our university computer center had a huge source code listing for Unix Version 5. There was a senior elective which gave full course credit for students to work on bug fixes for it in their own time. It seemed like an interesting option so I took a look at the code. It didn't appear at all professionally done. There were all kinds of insider comments and the overall impression was that the code had been done quickly by summer interns or others passing through. The grand plan was apparently to fix the problems later. To my knowledge, no one opted for that elective. Later, working in industry I had several employers who used PDP-11/70's running later versions of UNIX for engineering support and, frankly, I hated the PDP-11 unless it was running RSTS/E and have always avoided UNIX and the plethora of nickel and dime utilities like an infectious disease. It's just not a modern O/S but an artifact of computer history. I don't have much confidence that Linux is much better. There's an interesting article out there on the web by the professor for whose class Linus submitted his reworked UNIX kernel as a class project. The criticisms are fairly severe and it's likely that the Linux kernel is yet far from optimal. Maybe it's time for a modern open source O/S. Interestingly, the verification code the Inq site is showing appears at first glance like "hogwork" so it's possible that a machine could have a sense of humor.
posted by : Exigent, 14 August 2008

Linux Elitists just don't get it

Linux Elitists have no comprehension of the value of time.

I've got some Linux geeks here at work who I estimate would earn around 1/4 my annual salary, who had the hide to criticise my latest Apple purchase; the highest specced Mac Pro, a Macbook Air, Macbook Pro, Time Capsule and Ipod touch.

They just don't get it. I just don't care how much it cost, I need to trust the crap to work. All the time.

My time is money. I took a presentation to a client using my new Vista Vaio, and it would not display to their projector. I threw it out when IT support couldn't get it to just work. I don't care whether it's Vista, XP, 2K, Apple, Linux; I just want it to respect my time.

The turning point happened after a girl at work demonstrated her Macbook video I-chatting with several people. It was so easy and quick, and looked polished and professional. I asked her to hook it up to our projector - it just worked. She's a clueless marketing airhead type, if she can make it work then anyone can.

It's 3 months since paying the kid at the Mac Store to set everything up, and it's the best computing experience I've ever had.

These Linux Elitists show me their laptops supposedly working perfectly, and argue I just need to spend a little time to learn their religion. So I gave one my latest Vaio, a list of criteria it had to do before he gave it back. I got it back, and it didn't. The user experience was horrible. My audio was horrible. I tried to install Opera, it didn't work. After spending half a day with poor graphics, sub-sub-par sound, and a confusing godawful interface, I told him he just got a free laptop and to get it out of my sight. If that's the best Linux is capable of, he can spend his cheap time tweaking and coding I'll stick to my 'expensive' Apple thanks.

Linux is for people whose time is cheap.
posted by : So tired of Linux Elitists, 14 August 2008

WTF?

Sir, I been using Linux since 2000, daily at home. And you dare to say to me that my OS is not yet ready? This is absurd. What are you expecting from Linux? To work and feel and look exactly like Windows? C'mon. I DON'T want that Linux becomes like that crap Windows. Is that what you want? Stick with Redmond. Don't bother us with more crap. Linux IS different. Linux WORKS differently. LOOKS and FEEL differently, and IT IS USEFUL for me. Got that?
posted by : Max, 14 August 2008

fish sure

I agree totally but has anyone got a few billion tucked away that would like to help linux progress to the next level? I find the people that use linux love it for what it is, one day it might be mainstream but until then enjoy the ride its a beauty.
posted by : Anwar, 14 August 2008

Commendable

I have to give kudos to the article writer for walking against the stream (esp. here at the Inq) and pointing out that Linux still can't match OSX or Windows in user friendliness, ease of use and so on. Linux (and all it's distros, versions, forms) is still not a standardized desktop user OS, it's a "geek"-OS for specific tasks no matter how much eye candy they slap onto the surface. Until Linux has become standardized (with stable installers, a common file system & execution system) it will never take over, and it is in the end it's own worst enemy, not MS.
posted by : Scyphe, 14 August 2008

fish sure

I agree totally but has anyone got a few billion tucked away that would like to help linux progress to the next level? I find the people that use linux love it for what it is, one day it might be mainstream but until then enjoy the ride its a beauty.
posted by : Anwar, 14 August 2008

fish sure

I agree totally but has anyone got a few billion tucked away that would like to help linux progress to the next level? I find the people that use linux love it for what it is, one day it might be mainstream but until then enjoy the ride its a beauty.
posted by : Anwar, 14 August 2008

installs

The install packages can be wonderfully easy. The main problem I see is that when every *nix distro does it differently, every piece of software needs to be re-packaged. This leads to things like Ubuntu offering a version of Eclipse (industry standard for java programming) that was months old. That is unacceptable. So I went to install eclipse by myself only to find that the install was not done with the recomended directory structure that I found on the eclipse web site. WTH? Oh well, back to windows for me, I didn't really want to know why the program executables and the program files were in completely different directorys anyway.
posted by : matt, 14 August 2008

Linux = Mystery, Alaska


Hopes and dreams. Playing on your home pond.
When you finally go head to head with the
pros you stand to lose all your self-esteem, what
little you have. Maybe that's why the old timers
are holding on to the CLI. They know a straight
out battle will lead to their defeat and be
the beginning of the end of their days.

If they are forced to show their hand the
result will be the same:
You played a great game but you still lost. More
experience and bigger players will always win the day.

Maybe a few of the hometown players will be drafted
but when all is said and done, tomorrow you will be
playing on you same old pond by yourself.

You're a good skate, Linux, but your still a
Peppermint Patty.
posted by : Ana Thema, 14 August 2008

BAD article BAD!

That is clearly an article from somebody who has no clue about the topic...

Eye Candy just works out of the box :

I got a fresh install of ubuntu + wireless configuration + all my eyecandy stuff (and God I have a lot of that :D ) .... the total took me less than one hour...ok it took a bit for the updates but oh well ,just run it overnight and that will be it.

I never had problems installing supported software ... NEVER !!! Click Click DONE !

Hardware issues? I have a fairly recent ASUS laptop and everything works out of the box ! STOP finding problems where there is NOT !!


I am not a Linux Fanboy, I might be a ubuntu fanboy :p


PS : I am not really a computer geek and I have been using windows for years. I even laughed at a Linux geek one day... 10 years ago, today I am not laughing at Linux geeks.
posted by : zelrik, 14 August 2008

n/a

Seeing how Linux still requires the terminal to install a range of common applications (e.g. Flash) I am agree.

Linux has a long way to go to be a valid alternative to Windows, at least for the common user.
posted by : AnnoyedDragon, 14 August 2008

Regarding OEMs

It's not that Linux has to support OEMs, it's that OEMs have to
a) Start supporting Linux, or
b) Stop using non-standard (hardware) designs, or
c) Release the documentation on what non-standard things they have done.
Until then, there's no option other than the time-consuming process of reverse engineering the hardware and/or Windows drivers. This requires quite a bit of time, not to mention someone with the ability to actually have said laptop.

Frankly, given the number of wierd or just plain screwed-up designs laptop manufacturers have used, it's amazing that Linux works as well as it does on a laptop.
posted by : Cynic, 14 August 2008

100% accurate

Hi,
This article could not be more accurate, having recently tried Kubuntu (installing it as a Windows application), I have been left wanting. I have a Lenovo ThinkPad T61, which I could have ordered with Linux preinstalled. I figured there would be no driver issues when installing a popular distro that purports to be easy to install and use, well it installed all the drivers ok, but everytime I boot into Kubuntu it pops a window up showing me the Quadro card not enabled. I'm a Windows power user and very competent pc tech, I had trouble using the "proprietary" (I assume the direct from Nvidia driver), it simply wouldn't boot into X with the Nvidia driver. Strike 1!

I had trouble turning off the single click icons on the desktop an din the file manager, this should be off by default and easy to disable like in Windows, it took some help from IRC in the aMSN channel because the guys in the Kubuntu channel were no help. It's a desktop not a f**king webpage. I couldn't disable the touchpad and only have the touchpoint active with the default tools eventhough the driver was installed, I couldn't get the Kubuntu provided package to do this loaded as it was for Gnome and gave a very cryptic error when trying to run it. Strike 2.

90% of the stuff I installed, I had a tough time searching in TWO different GUI interfaces for the same repository program, a lot of the stuff required a sudo apt install command from a terminal. I grew up from the age of 2 (26 now) on DOS and used pretty much every version of Windows, save for NT pre-2K and so no stranger to a CLI, but WHY? I want everything to be in a GUI, like it is in XP? the menu organization sucked, apps didn't automatically add themselves to the menus or to the desktop and I had to wander through the unintuitive file manager to try and find the program's executable, STRIKE 3! Linux, you're gone, see ya later.

The "fit and finish" feel of the KDE GUI seemed like an economy car, not polished like Windows has felt since 3.1, I could live with it without too much trouble but XP was calling my name. I didn't like the look and feel of KDE, the menu organization and the system management tools didnt feel right. I couldnt find an equivalent to the control panel applets like Network Connections, or a full fledged Device Manager, etc. Linux is too CLI centric still, we need very mature management applets with well organized menus to get to them. Maybe I didnt look hard enough but I am sure I looked in the logical places. Microsoft got much of this right.

As for a common installer package and whether to go the click and drag route of OS X or the wizard route of windows, my limited experience with macs tells me the wizard works best as it provides a simple interface along with customization options as well as proper display of information to the user. The click and drag option doesnt seem to add an application icon to the desktop on the Mac and doesnt seem to add it to the doc either forcing you to just like in Linux, search for the executable in the file manager, come on now, oh and why the common menu bar, lack of ability to make a window full screen, and my ultimate mac pet peeve, no container windows on apps like Photoshop to hide the desktop. also whats with the 25 icons stacked one on top of the other on the desktop? talk about clutter on the desktop.
Maybe I will wait till ReactOS is mature and has a silver Luna theme and just be happy with that.
posted by : djs514, 14 August 2008

it's not "lack of eye candy"....

in fact, my multiviewport compiz-fusion desktop has enough flying-re-arrangement of windows tricks lying around to make ANY Vista-desktop user reach for the dramamine; Windows-Vista *is* very primitive in comparison.

THE reason why Linux isn't sold is simply this: You cannot but it at the stores. Walk into Best Buy, or Circuit City, or Office Depot, or *any* USA store: 100% of PC's are either Vista or Macintosh, no other choice is allowed.

It's all the in the monopoly power of Microsoft's "co-marketing" financial power. Although the Modified Final Judgement *says* that Microsoft isn't allowed (anymore) to reward and punish vendors on the basis of price, the agreement appears to have been written very carefully to allow this gaping hole, big enough to drive any truck right through it. No store dares to cross Microsoft with sale and display of any non-windoze PC.


If customers could SEE Mandriva boxes in action, and buy them with standard store return priviledges, they'd buy them. Really. (And frankly, Windows XP would also be selling like hotcakes if stores were still allowed to sell it-- but I haven't seen an "XP" box in a Store since about April 2007, over a year before MS officially "killed it". Do you REALLY think that retailers had any choice about this ??? )


Microsoft behaves as an unreformed and unpunished CRIMINAL monopoly. If you think that Linux can compete by merely "working harder to be better", you're without a clue -- it already IS better, except for gaming titles and lack of Quickbooks.
posted by : rickst29, 14 August 2008

written to please the writers

Biggest problem with Linux is that by and large the programs are written to please the writers, not the end users. Or perhaps a better waying of saying it is that to a large extent the writers are the end users. For these pople command line hacks are the normal things, and gui's are not for real men.

Your article hits the nail right on the head - or perhaps I should say the nails on the heads. The Linux GUI is incomplete - large important bits are completely missing.

And your comments about how bad Linux is for installing software strike a chord with me. The respository system that combines the OS with the applications has to be the worst idea in the history of IT, at least for a real end user perspective. No doubt it suits the developers (the real end users) but on one else.

I had hoped that the corporate boys such as Novell and Red Hat might be able to drag Linux into the GUI present, but they seem to server oriented to care about the desktop. I guess since they make money primarily from service contracts the kind which most home users would not pay, and with the coporate desktop world being in Bill Gates pocket, there is no incentive for them to develop the desktop.

Dont hold your breath waiting for broad adoption of the Linux desktop is my advice.
posted by : stolennomenclature, 14 August 2008

Linux is not Windows

You're pretty much describing what you like about other operating systems. Perhaps you should just use them and not see differences as shortcomings.

http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm

^ worth a look
posted by : David Lo Pan, 14 August 2008

Rubbish!

About 2 years ago I moved my wife's computer from Windows XP to Slackware Linux - supposedly the least "user friendly" distro going!

I should add that she is completely non-tech, and was managing to screw the windows installation up on a weekly basis. The rows resulting from me constantly having to "repair" her machine nearly ended 30+ years of marriage!

Since installing Slackware, all has been sweetness and light! She hasn't managed to crash it or corrupt it once! It "just works"!

She has OpenOffice, FireFox, and KMail, which cover everything she wants to do.

And I haven't had to sort it since the initial install - which incidentally took less than half the time windows took, even with a wireless network connection!

Marital bliss is resumed! And thanks to Slackware, I've saved a fortune in divorce payments..........!

--
Pete
posted by : Pete, 14 August 2008

another problem

"Hi

That computer you gave me with ubuntu on it ? It's great, and I can surf the web no problem. There's a free encyclopedia came with todays newspaper, and it doesn't run - how come ?

Also, I bought a new printer/copier/scanner, how do I install it? The driver CD doesn't appear to work for me ?"

--

These are the barriers that make me think twice before recommending *nix to any "normal" user. They just want a PC to work - they don't want to have to speak to support for any changes and they want to be able to go into the nearest PC superstore and grab (product) in the knowledge it will work when they get it home. And I sure as hell don't want to be on the end of a constant phone-call each time they want to make a change.

Sadly, thats where the majority of the catching up has to come from. You can argue about how easy it is to install ubuntu, how you only had to do a few updates and it was all working. It's what goes on *after* the techie has left that's the problem. And that's what some of you are missing.

We call this the "user" experience.
posted by : lansalot, 14 August 2008

Apple OS X is UNIX

Here's a major point left out. While the article mentions Apple's OS X, it doesn't say why that is such a RELEVANT comparison to the topic at hand....

Since Linux was created to compete with/replace UNIX, and since there are always many comparisons, here's one area where one "flavor" of UNIX beats LINUX: Apple's OS X.

Yes, Apple's OS X is UNIX. Do most Apple Mac owners know it's UNIX, care that it's UNIX, know how to program in UNIX? NO. They don't have to be a UNIX "god" to buy an Apple laptop, install Office and Photoshop and go to work.

Yes, OS X has pretty eye candy, just like he said. But it also has the invisible foundation of UNIX underneath. But no need to know commandline crap to run it. THAT is how Linux should be, like Apple's UNIX.

Do Linux fanboys admit that Apple's programmers are better than them? Then they should go develop a flavor of Linux that matches Apple's UNIX and is as easy to use -- and they will conquer the world.

(by the way, I only own Windows computers, but sometimes I wish Apple would have won. Then you wouldn't have Micrososft botching attempts to copy Apple. We would all just be using Apple.)

But seriously, if Linux is better than UNIX, great -- show me the OS X beater!
posted by : Chazz, 14 August 2008

Fan boys would call it blasphemy

"Many linux fans would consider changing these managers blasphemy."


That's just one of the points: Stop making Linux for fan boys and make it usable for the masses. Stop being afraid of some fan boys crying "blasphemy, blasphemy!".
posted by : Sam, 14 August 2008

a little knowledge leads to a pants article

Installing software is earier on Linux than Windows. The DEB/RPM argument is irrelevant - for example, if you use opensuse you get all the software from their own repositories, you select which app you want and accept and it downloads andinstalls and yolu are ready to go. Now with windows you have to scan numerous websites for an application, then check it out to make sure its not riddled with spyware/malware/trojans etc, then download it, run the download, click numerous times and usually reboot to install.
I was just surprised not see a comments like "you need to use the command like" or "you need to recompile the kernel to use a USB key".
posted by : Ian, 14 August 2008

Spot on

You are spot on. I got a new AMD64 laptop and decided to reformat the hard drive and install Ubuntu. But it is taking weeks of time I do not have to try to get the ATI graphics driver installed, the WiFi working, the DVD player to actually play commercial movies and Firefox to display flash and other multimedia content.

I've got a good way with some of them now, but Vista was pre-loaded and would have worked out of the box.

And now there's the joy of getting Dansguardian running to keep my kids' browsing reasonably safe. Come on guys, let's have a plug'n'play Linux!
posted by : simon b, 14 August 2008

no and yes

Linux installs are good enough.

It is the upgrading that totally borks and bolloxxes itself (I'm looking at you OpenSUSE).
posted by : Børge Nøst, 14 August 2008

Re:Flame away

'lol someone has not tried linux in a while....just more uniformed journalist trying to start a flame war.

Hate to break it to you but Ubuntu is far easier to install than windows. you can use wubu to install it on your windows partition ..etc..etc...Sorry for the sarcasm but come on do some research before you start blathering on...'

.

See ? Thats exactly what the author means...

Okay for YOU it was an easy install no problems...so what ? If it installs okay 9/10 or even 1/20 it still not good enough. There are still certain hardware problems <cough>Wireless<cough> that seem to crop up on the various forums with regularity. Windows generally installs every time on ANY Hardware [Well within reason] and that is what you are fighting against.

And before you accuse yes I have I have had ago at a few distributions a yes I have had problems. Non of them unsurmountable however they shouldn't have been there in the first place

Once its all set up and 'tweaked' yes its fine. I am currently running PClinuxOS and it does compare very favourably to XP in useability however I wouldn't except Joe bloggs to be able to set up from scratch...
posted by : Steve, 14 August 2008

still a fan

Reviving the "certified hardware" concept would help. There are laptops and desktops that are easy and troublefree with Linux but these are not
clearly made known.

posted by : tonto, 14 August 2008

Most simply said...

...given Windows or Linux, and an average day's workload, I'd be in my car and on my way home sooner if I used Windows on my computer, rather than Linux. Linux is easy to install, yes, but that's where the honeymoon ends. After the install, things go rapidly downhill.

I don't speak as a newbie to UNIX and UNIX-like environments: I first played with DEC UNIX in 1994, and ever since, I've had some form of UNIX or Linux running at home. I'm also certified in Solaris 9, 10 and Sun Cluster 3.2 (and now going for IBM AIX certification) - so I'm not new to the command line.

But do I want to fight with my desktop or laptop machine when I want to get something done? No. I use Cygwin if I want an SSH session or X-Window host. There's no reason for me to use Linux, as it doesn't offer me anything I don't already have with Windows + Cygwin.
posted by : Oliver, 14 August 2008

crock of poop

well, at least it said 'rant' in the subtitle. 'cause there isn't one iota of reason in there. the author and many of the following comments display an ignorance of how GPL software development works, why it has worked so far and why it can only continue to work this way.

but mainly, you gotta get it out of your head that you are somehow owed this free, perfect desktop. i know you hate using your windows and mac soooo much (and of course i don't blame you!) but the idea is to create perfect software for the whole world, taking however much time as it takes to do so. the idea is not to write a perfect piece of software for you by 5PM next Tuesday.

oh, and tell my mother and co-workers linux isn't ready for the desktop. and no, i didn't do the installs (well, i did for my mother, but there was no editing of configuration files involved)

and if you find the inconsistency between distros confusing, maybe stop using so many different distros?
posted by : Korla Plankton, 14 August 2008

So windows is for the masses???

Windows Vista is not ready for the masses or anyone else. At least Linux works well. Is more stable and IS multi tasking.
Only thing that lets Lunix down is lack of big software houses not supporting it.
With windows you are only buying a BETA version, as they is no warranty, but at least linux is free.
No spyware in Linux either!!
No corporatation looking what you got on your computer and telling you what you can run or do.
posted by : dale, 14 August 2008

Drew

Agree 100% - although am posting this from a Ubuntu install.

Its other little things - like making my XBOX360 talk to my wireless network using my laptop wifi cards. In windows talks 2 minutes to create a bridge.

With Linux i have yet to succeed. Is windows perfect, hell no far far far far from it. Is Linux hell no far far far from it. If microsoft were to release a *nux distro we'd all be living on cloud nine imo. ;-)
posted by : Drew, 14 August 2008

IT IS SO INCORRECT

I'm not a fanboy.
I guess i'm very lazy person.

This is the reason I use linux in last 5-6 years.
However, the first try was long before switching.
And yes, 7-8 years ago I experienced all described problems.

But:
I have lost NO configuration since i switched. System or application specific. And this happened despite the fact i switched from debian --> ubuntu --> mandrake --> ubuntu --> gentoo --> ubuntu --> ubuntu 64 --> gentoo 64.

Just calculate how much time each of you spent in last 5 years on RECONFIGURING your system after each reinstallation. You'll find it's significant.

Installing system is easy on windows and linux. But once it's installed on linux you don't have to search the disks of you hardware to install NIC or sound card. Neither you have to search drivers for your printer, camera or whatever. In most cases it would work. When installation complete, on windows you can do nothing (try mspaint, notepad). on linux you have system ready for any task. and it takes less space then only Vista.

A for easiness of installation, Synaptic works for both DEB and RPM packages. and if it's not enough, take simple example, load Ubuntu, go to Skype site, click on your package and it would install. not more complicated then windows.
As for maintenance, Linux packaging systems will take care of almost all applications and will offer an update when available. in windows, most unsophisticated users will stay with outdated software.

Ease of use ?
My parents are old people. And i spend almost no time on training them. With XP it was almost daily phone calls with questions.
My non tech friends (that does not gamers) using linux and they happy that they don't have to reinstall, pay for unnecessary anti-virus software etc.

Where is the problem ?
The problem is like always MONEY.
Linux will leave a lot of people without work and money. Simply because they and their services/products will become unnecessary.
This people will do their best to leave you on broken OS. They will do their best to leave you with OS that requires instant hardware upgrades.
Drop gaming, and most of you can happily live with 5-8 years old hardware.
Yes there is people that want to create (whatever) and they need new hardware.
So, basically I'm happy that M$ exists. They require serious multicore gigaram systems to check gmail. So producing a lot of hardware is cheaper.
posted by : Dmitriy, 14 August 2008

Please define "User Friendly"!

There's A LOT of evidence out there that says Linux is much more user-friendly than Windows - stick a computer newbie in front of a pc, and they will be up to speed with Linux far faster (and with less help from friends and relative) than with Windows. There are regular repeated stories about "I gave my elderly aunt/parent/whoever a pc that dual-booted windows and linux. Next time I visited they asked me to delete Windows because they never used it..."

But how many people are there out there who are genuine computer noobs? Not many. For most people, "user friendly" means "similar to what I already know", and that is usually Windows now. By that token, Vista is pretty user-vicious, and that's certainly the impression one gets from the press. But MS has the clout to force a new, unfamiliar system onto the world, unlike Linux.

Another important thing to bear in mind is "people are different". What's user-friendly to one person may not be to someone else. The British Army have a nice flashy self-loading rifle, that is great for right-handers. Only snag is, despite being right-handed myself, I wouldn't be able to use it. I'm forced to shoot left-handed because I can't see what I'm doing right-handed, and it would eject the spent cartridges (with considerable forc