3DMarks on Nvidia and ATI, physics or not
Benchmarketeering: Does it matter at all?
OVER THE PAST MONTH, we've seen a zillion reviews, big and small, of both Nvidia and ATI's new GPU chippery.
The Geforce GTX280 and 260, as well as Radeon HD4870 and 4850, do provide a major performance jump compared to their predecessors for the first time in nearly two years, and also get closer to each other, diminishing the green-vs-red performance delta.
What about that darn physics thing, especially how the Ageia Physx support in the new Nvidia GTX cards affects the CPU portion of the 3DMark Vantage benchmark, letting the marketing droids repeat the "affected" scores to their benefit? And, the ATI fanboys complaining (cough!) how Nvidia rigs all and sundry?
Since, usually, physics calculations depend heavily on the CPU and are well threaded, we built a platform where there's a minimum skew possible due to Nvidia's on-chip Physx support: the eight core, 4GHz Intel Skulltrail, liquid cooled with Asetek LCLC set.
We also pulled out the old Asus Ageia Physx PCI card, and ran all graphics card combinations both with and without it. What were the cards used? Asus GTX280 TOP 1GB, with a GPU running at a very decent 650MHz, was the highest end entry, while Leadtek GTX260 896MB card played the less expensive slower cousin here. Two reference ATI cards, the HD4870 and HD4850, both with 512MB memory and reference clocks, filled in the picture.
While Leadtek's entry is a decent package with Neverwinter Nights 2 game and accessories, Asus' box focuses on raw performance. It is one of the fastest GTX280 entries around, with high factory overclocked settings of around eight per cent average, and it hasn't failed on any single benchmark we ran.
Windows Vista Ultimate 64 was used to run the 3DMark06 and 3DMark Vantage sets, with the newest drivers we could get hold of, including the Nvidia Physx support and the patched ATI one.
3DMark06 was thrown in more as a reference, as you can see how its scaling compares vs its newer brother. All tests were run at default settings, without SLI or Crossfire parallel GPU attempts this time.
Here are the results:
Now with that extra Ageia card:
Looks interesting? As you can see, once the CPU is powerful enough, it makes little difference if the GPU does physics - even in the 3D Vantage CPU 2 benchmark where there's no 3-D graphics to speak of, it's all "physical".
In this case, both Nvidia and ATI cards still benefit from the addition of the good old and rarely-used Ageia Physx card anyway. Even the percentage gain is similar as you can see.
In the ATI case, even the GPU benchmark portions seem to have gone up a bit - keep in mind there's a perception among some that 3DMark Vantage is quite Nvidia friendly, yet this ATI stuff gains just as much.
Yeah, no one would plonk five thousand quid into a Skulltrail and then fit in an HD4850, but you get the idea: the balanced CPU/GPU configuration still matters most, even in highly synthetic benchmarks like this.
The point is that, even if you have "only" a typical quad-core PC, these ATI cards will still be able to depend on the CPU-bound physics for a while. GPU-bound physics has a future nevertheless, and there's nothing wrong with Nvidia's move to offload it via CUDA.
The point stands on what 3D resources would be sacrificed within that GPU for simultaneous physics processing, though. Or maybe, plug in a spare (future) Geforce GTX240 or such into a spare PCI-E slot just for this? µ
Comments
Not
Quite a head turning from Inquirer. First, nvidia cheats on physX and now physX is a wonderful and beautiful thing. Nvidia, we love you and thank you for your £££s!Hybrid SLI
Isn't it fair that the Physx processing skews the benchmarks? After all people will make use of the feature in games if it boosts their fps, I thought that was the purpose of the benchmarks to demonstrate how well a set-up can run games?The question I'm waiting to find out is whether the NVIDIA hybrid SLI motherboards will be able to offload the Physx processing to the on-board graphics card while the discrete motherboard is left going full pelt on graphics processing?
Overlooked
But what everyone has forgoten about is that things usally get more complex, will physics as well? if it does then an 8 core or more system won't cope.physx gpu
Well why would my 2 yo motherboard have 3 pci-express x16 (3rd is actually 8x) slots for.. tri-sli? yeah right, it didn't even exist at that time.what about gaming experience.. and not those scores...
I read a lot that nvidia are cheating at 3dmark scores for the extra points gained due to physx API used in 3dmark vantage. but doesn't that extra score means better performance and visuals on how things looked (the objects physics) when the test ran? i mean.. gaming experience is not only the FPS counter!!!Havoc & 350GTX
Havoc has been announced to be PhysX compatible. So Good convergence. Mutli PhysX is supposed to be same as one or none. seems OverClocked unit gets less bump.Heres new nvidia 350GTX, notice last line:
NVIDIA GTX 350
GT300 core
55nm technology
576mm
512bit
DDR5 2GB memory, doubled GTX280
480SP doubled GTX280
Grating operation units are 64 the same with GTX280
216G bandwidth
Default 830/2075/3360MHZ
Pixel filling 36.3G pixels/s
Texture filling 84.4Gpixels/s
Cannot support D10.1 .10.0/SM4.
Well its over 200 gb/s, so New TOP. Ultie will continue to search for ways to push numbers beyond any mere home calculators Reach. SSD from 980 mb/s to 4?gb/s might be in need of controllers to support such spectecule, yet is in todays writings.
drashek
Eh, GPU physx??
Would it not have been an idea to enable GPU physx instead, to see what the differences are then??Even on my 8800GT, the CPU2 test goes well above 100.
See what scores the nvidia based machines get, then use the CPU for the ATI scores, and see how much more powerful GPU physX is than even skulltrail.