Ebay forces Aussie buyers to use Paypal
Kangaroo caught
USING THE FLIMSY PRETEXT of insecurity, Ebay Australia has announced that as of June, buyers will only be able to pay for their goods via the online commerce website Paypal, which just happens to be owned by the online auction company.
Australians are seething at the decision, which they see as a blatant effort by Ebay to siphon off even more money from user sales, to fill its own fat pockets.
A customer email alert from Ebay to its Australian users warned that as of 21 May, all customers will have to offer Paypal on their listings, in addition to other currently permitted payment methods, but from June 17th, only Paypal or cash on delivery options will be available, meaning that direct deposits, money orders and personal cheques will no longer be accepted.
This will leave a bitter taste in the mouths of Ebay users, as Ebay already takes quite a significant cut on any sale, and Paypal will squeeze a further 1.1 to 2.4 per cent out of them on every sale.
A UK Ebay spokesman, Richard Kanareck, told the INQUIRER that the changes were a way of making transactions more secure, and ensure a safer online marketplace, noting that users who didn’t use Paypal were forgoing the site’s protection and leaving themselves open to being cheated. He denied the fact that it was actually Ebay doing the cheating, by forcing the costly Paypal service onto its customers.
Kanareck insisted Paypal was as competitive as other payment methods and that "most buyers on the Internet expect a certain level of insurance" which Paypal would be able to provide. He used a bizarre analogy, claiming "people wouldn’t walk into a shop and say they were happy to take the risk of being cheated, so why should Ebay allow it?
“It would be remiss of us not to address this issue," said Kanareck.
According to Ebay, customers are four times less likely to have problems in their Ebay transactions if they pay with Paypal, but Kanareck admits that “some people might not be happy about it”, even though he believes that in the long run it “will increase people’s confidence in buying on Ebay”.
In an attempt by the auction website to in some way validate its claims that all this profiteering is actually for the greater consumer good, Ebay has upped its Paypal Buyer Protection insurance programme, in which buyers who don’t get what they ordered, or get goods that were not in the condition they expected, can lodge a claim to eBay for the amount of money they lost. Buyers used to be able to claim up to $3,000, but ebay has now increased this sum to $20,000.
Kanareck said that Australia was the only country where users would be forced to use Paypal only, and that, as far as he knew, no other country was planning on taking payment choices away from its customers in the near future. In the UK , Kanareck said that Paypal already had a very “high penetration level”, whereas in Australia, this wasn’t the case. He noted that as of May, UK Ebay users would also have to list Paypal as a payment method, but could still choose alternative options if they wanted to. µ

Comments
monopoly?
I wonder if Australia is the only country where direct bank transfer has taken a significant portion of the payment processing for eBay sales?They will lose my business and any future interest in selling as opposed to buying....
ebay is finished
say good bye ebay to profits ,a nd even your buisness, you pis##d of too many ppl with your outragous fees change, and now you have put the icing on your own cake. all the best ebay. and thanks for the fish.Biased too
Paypal is also very biased towards buyers, and not sellers, which makes this scheme even less attractive for auctioneers. They're also cracking down on pushing the costs into the shipping instead of the product so the seller doesn't have to pay so much eBay tax.Riiiggghhhhttttt
Well this seller had a buyer of one of my cameras scratch the lens so bad that it couldn't take clear photos. He promptly sent it back to me and claimed that the "item was not as described." When I provided paypal with the following evidence,http://web.ics.purdue.edu/%7Enino/Ebay/dispute/Fuji.html
they sided with the buyer.
Why you ask?
Because, if they didn't then he'd be able to call his CC company and get the $$ that way. So you see, Paypal will have "some" sort of protection, so long as it doesn't cost them _anything_.
I thought this was a cut-and-dried case of buyer fraud and I'd get to keep my $$ but I received nothing but grief from Paypal.
Each rebuttal of theirs was met with facts
Paypal: But this is clearly a case of he said, she said.
Me: No, I've provided the photos as evidence
Paypal: we have no proof that he took these photos
Me: Each photo has a time/date/camera stamp on it that shows they occurred in his possession
Paypal: Sir, we're an internet company - we don't get involved in arbitrations. We don't know about how to look into the validity of photos
Me: That's funny, I believe you run an arbitration service.
Paypal: Sir, we will not refund your money - and you cannot appeal this any further.
I just pray that Ebay/Paypal gets a competitor. As of now, there is nothing available. I wish them a slow and painful demise (as a company).
UK sellers MUST also offer PayPal
http://web.ebay.co.uk/businesshub/index.php?page=safe_payments"IMPORTANT: Upcoming eBay Payment Requirements
Starting in late April, eBay will ask all sellers to offer PayPal on all listings. This will allow buyers to have the option of purchase protection on every item that they purchase on eBay."
Already sent my complaint...
This is such an obvious move by ebay to get more "pentration" into Australia. I got the email the other day and immediately told them what I though of it. I'm yet to hear a response...If they do that in the US...
then I'll never buy anything on Ebay ever again! I don't sell on Ebay and only buy one or two items a year so I guess I'm too small time for Ebay to care about me, but there are probably millions like me. I refuse to even bid on an auction where paypal is the only payment method. See www.paypalsucks.com if you want to know why, it isn't just sellers who get screwed by them!ebay = ebuise
if i am right (correct if i am wrong) paypal is own by ebay right?recently i sold few items on ebay (yes i live in stone age, i never sold anything on ebay, had bought few items before).
1) listing fee (its fine, that is normal)
2) hidden fee ( pictures, all other crap) *note: they don't let you post a link to another site, so that you can skip their charges for more pictures. abusive.
3) paypal charge you transaction fee (hello, its own by you ebay) abusive.
4) final value fee (WOW JEBUS! HOLY MOLLY) i just lost the totaly profit from 1 of the item i sold, since i sold few of them, but the total worth of the profit now goes directly to ebay.
EBAY you suck, i rather pay to amazon, why? because they do a more honest business, they abuse too, but not as bad, EBAY sucks.
after that, i will never buy anything nor sell anything ever again on ebuise(ebay). i rather donate my goods to local salvationarmy, so that other people that can't afford things can have what i once loved. so fuxxk u ebay, i mean ebuise.
Read the contract before you surrender your bank account to PayPal!!!
http://www.nopaypal.com/'nuff said!
Another boost for Amazon
So many people I know have switched from selling on e-bay because e-bay is slow and horrible to deal with. Amazon(though they have recently introduced insecurity changes which make them less user friendly) have received most ofe-bay's lost business.
Illegal?
It's completely ridiculous and a dead giveaway that this policy is being introduced only in Australia.This change will hit hardest those people who make a small margin on items sold for a low price.
I strongly suspect that this move has anti-competitive elements. If you really want to stop it, don't both complaining to Ebay. Call the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission on 1300 302 502 or fill in the online complaint form at:
http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/54217
Recent experiences have shown that they are prepared to get tough with anti-competitive behaviour.
pwnt
LOL! Seriously, you ebay sellers are just a bunch of whingers - if you don't like the system, stop selling. Personally I applaud this move by ebay - it has been long overdue. There are many more corrupt sellers out there than buyers. Ebay needs to make even more efforts to protect the buyer at the expense of the seller.If you don't like it, cut your hair, shave and get a real job you bunch of dole bludgers.
Screw Ebay
Check out www.oztion.com.austill offers pay pal, but doesn't control you like ebay is trying to.
bye bye ebay....
I've used eBay for years......... I'm afraid I just cannot afford the delay/expense with paypal, and NEVER had a problem paying direct deposit (That's what Seller Ratings are for)CYA eBay, you've lost a regular user.
a job for the ACCC?
If this is the case then I suspect the ACCC (an Australian watch dog on competition) should be informed. To only allow PayPal is a restriction of trade and may well be illegal.Ebay is dying
It is already very difficult for sellers to make a profit on many of Ebays items....one of the few ways to keep profit up was to ensure buyers paid by direct deposit, therebye adding no additional seller fees... this is just a further kick in the teeth for already struggling sellers.Anyway, it won't worry me. Been selling on Ebay for 2 years but made the decision a few weeks ago to no longer use Ebay.....
Too many sellers, not enough buyers, slim margins, high marketing costs, all add up to, FINISHED.
Sad
I am a web master and own http://www.omlinebendigo.com/Can I do this or woulld assic hunt me down. it is rubbish i am sick of these manopalys
E bay Pay Pal
Google Pay Pal the negative postings are endless they just lost me.Bye Bye ebay
Dear ebay,Thanks for stiffing the Australian public, but we are used to hidden controling monopolys here. The banks, the telcos, the local councils, the water boards, the AFC, etc.
Bye Bye ebay, ebay goodbye....
I think there is a song in that somewhere...
Austraila?
Got this from a PayPal email (received 10-Apr)..> Starting in late April, eBay will now ask all sellers to offer
> PayPal on their listings. This means that even more items on
> eBay will offer buyer protection.
.. and I'm fairly sure they know I live in the UK.
Can we complain to ACCC?
This has got to be some sort of restrictive trade, especially given that paypal is owned by ebay.I am going to make an ACCC complaint and see where that goes.
So What
Thats life, thats business, Ebay would have done there research before making this decission and figured that most people wouldn't mind and those that did mind would get used to it. Ebay has been helping people access specialised goods from all over the world and offers a pretty good service to do this, so big deal if they want to increase their profits and channel what would normally be the banks tips, into there business. If you don't like it go back to holding garage sales.Dissent being crushed?
eBay's forum's have been flooded with complaints from their members. Some have started petitions, some have linked to the ACCC complaints department. I followed the ACCC link and lodged a complaint this morning (11/04/2008). Then at 10:00am, the forums closed down. As at 10:30am, they are still not back up. Will the complaints and dissent still be there when the forum returns? Let's see.THERE IS AN ALTERNATIVE TO EBAY - www.oztion.com.au
LET'S SHOW EBAY HOW UPSET WE ARE AND TAKE AWAY THEIR PROFITS AND GIVE THEM TO THEIR COMPETITION.LET'S MAKE OZTION.COM.AU AUSTRALIA'S BIGGEST ONLINE BUYING AND SELLING SITE!! LISTING SOMETHING TO SELL ON OZTION IS FREE!!! AND THERE'S NO FORCING YOU TO USE PAYPAL.
http://www.oztion.com.au
I am appalled and disgusted by ebay's decision to force paypal on everyone!!
I'm a seller as well as an avid buyer on ebay and do not own a credit card. I'm finding that by doing the wise thing for myself by not living in credit means that I'm constantly pushed out from taking part in so many things! Now with this new ebay law if I wanted to pay without using credit... I will have to wait at least 5 days for my payments to clear through paypal before the buyer can send me the goods, compared to through banks that takes usually 1-3 days - maximum 5!!
Another very valid point I've heard is - what do paypal do with all our money sitting in their accounts?? We should be earning interest on the money of ours that paypal holds! Also, they're not a large bank... whose to say they won't go under and take all our money with them??
It drives me crazy that it takes 5 working days for "MY" money to come out of my paypal account into my own bank account!!! And paypal charges me yet again if I withdraw less that $150 at a time!!!!
It all just seems so unfair!! We just can't let them get away with it!!!
How do they police it
If they still allow COD, how can they police buyers and sellers bypassing the paying process and doing a direct deposit anyway.All you'd need to do is contact the buyer or seller directly after the auction closes and ask them if they'd prefer DD. The only risk would be if that other party dobbed you in to ebay I guess.
TAX on internet sales?
First of all this is against monopoly laws. But I think Ebay might be pushed by government to do so as I expect the next step to be tax on internet sales which is much easier to enforce if cash or direct money transfer is not allowed. I think governments will take the next big step raising revenue on the internet sales.Good Article
Good article. I have already sent an email (wow, that'll scare 'em) to state my disgust.I am really HOPING that ALL Australians who use eBay will stand up and tell them that this will not be tolerated. This is Australia, not the rest of the world, we do business in an open honest manner and will not have our freedom to choose compromised by some racketeers (maybe we should take the management board out the back of the pub and "explain things").
Come on Aussies lets stick it right up eBay (they don't like Holdens [or Fords], follow badminton and they think beer is disgusting)
C'mon Aussies C'mon
Ouch!
I for one feel like I've been penetrated by PayPal. Maybe that is what they really mean when they talk penetration. All the rest of us Aussies, assume the position! PayPal is coming in the back door whether you like it or not!its about time they all had paypal
Its good to see Ebay making everybody have paypal it makes it fair for all sellers.It makes ebay more protective towards sellers and buyers with these changes.
If people don't like it then leave.
Rather have a quick, friendly more efficient way of buying.
None of this crap about peoples bank account details when buying without paypal and putting it into their account.
Its more above board and less hassle.
Super, great and fair.
Ebay breaking the LAW?
I don't think it was legal to subvert the use of our actual, as in crinkly, foldable plastic paper currency, for transactions within Australia. Maybe the ebay directors should stockpile a few jars of vaseline to be on the safe side.Paypal are theives
http://www.nopaypal.com/ well worth the read.People need to send a strong msg to this kind of abusers
BOYCOTT EBAY!!!!
BOYCOTT PAYPAL!!!
Congratulations Simon Smith, it's about time.
I think this is great news.I've often been disappointed when an item goes up for sale and Paypal is not offered as a payment option as that, along with cash-on-pickup, is the only method I'll use for reasons of security, privacy and buyer protection.
If you don't like this new policy and, as a seller, don't wish to offer Paypal to your customers because of fees then you're free to set up shop elsewhere or go back to advertising in the local newspaper -- just don't expect me to buy your goods.
Well done Simon for taking a stand. This will ultimately prove to be a huge success for both Ebay and Paypal, despite the moaning and whinging of a minority.
Lost Business
I would far rather pay by Bank Transfer.I think Ebay will lose a lot of business if they go ahead with this.
The reason given, that it is all about security is a smoke screen, its really about Paypal commissions.
A Buyer's Perspective
It's not just sellers that will suffer. I've used ebay/paypal as a buyer, and I hate paypal.Already, my wife avoids bidding on items that require paypal as a payment option. The website is slow, links go to the wrong page, and yada yada yada. When we moved to Australia, we couldn't change the country of our account. Paypal's "solution"?
"Close your existing account, and open a new one."
"But won't I lose the money in my account if I close it?"
"Yes."
"Can I create the new account first, then transfer the money across?"
"Yes, but this will attract fees."
Doesn't ebay know that the way to make scads of money is to provide good service? Not to irritate everybody?
Once bitten...
PayPal misrerepreented themselves to me several years ago, unethical and unsympatneitc about their lies. I would not trust ebay or paypal with my money or informationBye Bye eBay - Hello Oztion
It will be interesting to see if eBay/Paypal gets away with this or if the ACCC steps in and shuts their new payment rules down. Oztion.com.au is another online auction site in Australia. Although it hasn't been as prolific as eBay in the past, I think this Paypal blunder will see all that change. Let's start a revolution and take our business to Oztion instead. How do you like them apples eBay?????Illegal
In Australia, it is illegal to use market dominance to create a monopoly in another market.Ebay's near monolpoly on online auctions CAN NOT be used to create a monopoly in payment gateways.
I smell a big fat lawsuit coming on.
Bye bye Ebay
well i HATE paypal.so....bye bye Ebay
Support the aussie Bay
Everyone should just start using Eswap 4 the contempt ebay is showing to usersIts same with me..
Neither do i like ebay anymore..I stopped using it for about year now..
We can leave without ebay.
i used it to search for rare and yet cheap items..
I wish there is a competitior soon.
Hello Google are you listening.
about paypal
GPay and Amazons payment processing are possible alternatives
Paypal is a ripoff
Paypal has personally cost me a lot of money on a few occasions. They grab multiple slices from the pie, and god help you if a dispute arises. Cause thats more money for them, as they tie it all up gaining interest and extra costs like postage etc, are all lost.Steer clear of Paypal is my advice !
..more of the same here in Aus...
...My wife and I began selling on E-bay last year - yes, we were ignorant of their 'rip-off' culture and were amazed @their sheer cheek with their BS charges, then PP charges, the lies etc..they lost our business totally and will soon have competitors that won't do same, within 5 years E-bay will be a debt...as others have said F@#$ you E-bay!!!TPA Anyone...??
This will be interesting to watch.Australia has a strong Trade Practices Act with very specific clauses governing what is known as Third Line Forcing... which is essentially saying that in order to buy product X from A, you must buy/use product Y from B.
Limiting use of EBay to PayPal only, must fly pretty close, and perhaps the ACCC might be interested in looking into this with Ebay.
Can't happen in the US
Well, at least US users won't ever have to worry about something like this happening here. There are Federal and Constitutional restraints here that would prevent them from restricting payment through a single non-cash method. Not only would it violate US anti-trust/anti-competition and banking laws but also the Constitutional requirement that all currency minted by the US Government MUST be accepted for all debts public and private in the US. (Also printed on our paper currency should the folks at eBay need a reminder.)The folks in UK and Australia apparently need to get their governments to better protect it's citizens from heavy-handed and greedy enterprises like eBay.
no more
get rid of ebay and their rip offs join oztion instead ebay is only a reject yank company anywayNoOOOoooo
I am an ebayoholic and every purchase i have made soo far has been through direct deposit :(i dun wanna use paypal... sighz..
stinks
my last e-bay purchase was tonight, about an hour before reading this.I don't mind using paypal, but i damn well wont be forced to.
3rd Degree Enforcement just around the corner
Just let them take away the cash on delivery and boom! the ACCC will be all over them for 3rd degree enforcement.beat the system
This is what I do: I email the seller and offer them a deal, outside of ebay. Do it all the time and most sellers don't mind at all, savesthem the percentage to ebay / paypal.PAYPAIN
I have made a complaint to the ACCC. THat is outrageous. I pay for them to advertise and auction my item, not for them to tell me how to get paid.I'm off to Oztion.com.au
Thin edge of the wedge
If Ebay/Paypal manage to get away with this in Australia then expect to see the same restrictive paypal only scheme extended into other countries.Australia is a small enough market that they can test the water before introducing it in larger markets like the US and Europe.
So... even if you aren't in Australia and you think this is a bad idea then let ebay know now, don't wait until it's too late to do anything.
Bidsell
Well i no longer use ebay because www.bidsell.com.au charges only 3% on final sale no listing fees no fees at all not even to have a estore the best part their AUSTRALIAN.Paypal is unacceptable
The only time I've been scammed is by Paypal when they helped themselves to my money without direct authority. I immediately realized what I was dealing with, cancelled my credit card, and fled. Paypal isn't a protection against scammers, it is a scammer, and Ebay is suspect by association. I've already sent in my instructions to close my Ebay account - I don't care if they reverse the decision or the ACCC or the Privacy Commissioner force them to, I'm out of there.OBVIOUS
Isn't it OBVIOUS that some of the comments posted on here are from ebays spin doctors. Telling us no-hopers what a wonderful idea this is, just like the other monopolys in this country. Like the banks charging us to use our money!Australians are well know for being apathetic and lazy,(if you don't beleive me, why is the price of petrol so high? When we produce 90% of our own needs) that is why once again we get the shaft.
Stand up and tell these people where to go and vote with your actions.
End of rant for the time being...
Forget eBay - There are alternatives
there are alternatives to eBay in Australia!although none of them compare to the audience of eBay however if we dont start using them how are eBay going to get competition. check out DOLA at www.dola.com.au - they are small but dont charge anything for selling or listing your items. Create competition for eBay and then watch them change their ways!
www.oztion.com.au
Since I received ebays notification of their new policy changes i have.1. Canceled my paypal account
2. Stopped buying on Ebay.
3. Am waiting for my last lot of items to get shipped to me then canceling my ebay account.
4. Joined up at www.oztion.com.au
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6L2vvevKeO8
If you'nt read your users agreement with paypal I suggest you do that now.
Ebay.au is a dying fish - kinda smells too.
Paypal fees are insidiously large
The Paypal fee is actually worse than many people think. The fee is 2.4% + $0.30. For a typical $10.00 item, that gives $0.24 + $0.30 =$0.54. The fee is then 5.4% on the $10.00 sale price.Also the seller has to receive the postage into his/her Paypal account too. Say the postage is also $10.00, then the seller has to receive $20.00. The fee on this is $0.48+ $0.30 = $0.78. The fee is now actually 7.8% of the item's sale price.
No wonder sellers are up in arms about this when they could receive the payment into their bank account with zero extra fee!!!!
It makes the entire transaction more expensive and both buyers and sellers eventually lose out.
It's about time
I hope that Ebay and Paypal put the thumbs screws right into the sellers, Ebay must lift there charges and sellers must enjoy the increase with a smile!!The only people crying about Ebay are the one's who drop ship chinese crap or S/H junk, try doing a business course and opening a proper retail outlet. Oh I have long looked foward to this day, so very soon tonnes of rubbish will no longer be sold online
I love Ebay
democracy
Democracy eBay style. "We think it's good for you so you WILL like Paypal, whether you like it or not" Well, I won't Pay, pal.