Thu 04 Dec 2008

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Cops intensify kiddie DNA sweep

5,000 a day keeps the terrors at bay

THE BRITISH PLOD have been adding 5,000 children to the DNA database every day, according to figures released by the Home Office.

A quarter of DNA swabs collected by police between October and January 2008 were from kids, according to data the government placed in the House of Commons Library early last month (but did not place in Hansard, its official record).

Jenny Willcott, the Justice spokeswoman for the Liberal Democrats, who asked for the data, said it represented nothing less than the "mass criminalisation of our children".

"Hauling thousands into police stations to keep their DNA on record for life is a grotesque overreaction to the problems caused by a very small minority of young people," she said.

The figures showed that police collected the details of over 200,000 children in the three months to January.

Helen Wallace, a campaigner at Genewatch, said that arrest targets were forcing the police to pick up kids for minor offences. The Police Federation has said this is also the reason why there is a disproportionate number of black men on the DNA database.

Wallace estimated that there were 100,000 children on the DNA database who had never been convicted or even cautioned for any crime.

The Libdems called for people who have not been convicted to be removed from the DNA database.

But Tony Lake, chief constable of Lincolnshire Police and the outgoing national DNA chief, insisted people should be kept on the database once they were there. Both the Ipswich murderer and the murderer of Sally-Anne Bowman were both found and convicted using DNA evidence gathered for minor offences, he said.

The trouble with the kids on the DNA database, he said, was that they were not so "young and innocent" as people made them out to be.

"There's a fairly hefty chunk of people who get arrested in their early teens. Many of those are repeat offenders. A person's criminal career starts at a young age," he said.

He said more criminological research needed to be done to understand the reasons why some children grow into criminals.

Dr. Priscilla Anderson, professor of childhood studies at the University of London, said the reasons were largely linked to poverty. Most people associated with crime came from deprived backgrounds.

And most of the kids put on the DNA database without a conviction were merely poor kids without anywhere else to go but the streets.

"If you are going to have a police database, at least have it record only convicted criminals," she said.

"Wouldn't it be better to be more supportive of young people who get into trouble instead of treating them like criminals," she said.

Chief Constable Lake said last year children could be stigmatised by having their details added to the DNA database.

But the police database is under heavier attack, with a case in the European Court of Human Rights challenging the right of the police to keep the records of people who commit minor offences for long periods.

The UK's Equality and Human Rights Commission said it was watching the case closely as well. It is deciding whether to sue the government over its storing the details of a disproportionate number of black men on the DNA database. µ

Comments

Why don't you.

It makes me physically ill to hear such, and I'm not even british.
posted by : W.-, 07 April 2008

I smell Eugenics...

Why else have a DNA database?
posted by : FAR, 07 April 2008

Have to be charged

Having recently been arrested myself for alleged computer crime - disproven I might add. I was advised by my legal team that you actually have to be charged for the police to take a DNA sample. Despite the police trying their very best to convince me otherwise. Needlessly to say they didn't get my DNA as I wasn't charged, and they didn't fancy the scrap that I promised would ensue if they tried.

I am surprised the police have got time to chase criminals of any age, what with all the doughnut eating and the rounding up of thousands of motorists for doing 33.5 mph in a 30 limit. That latter is, after all, full time job worthy of all our police resources, well that's what Gordan keeps saying so it must be true right....oh yes he's the one that can't drive...so maybe not then...better just add some more tax to petrol...and hope no one notices.
posted by : Pete, 08 April 2008

I think it is grand

Why the fuss over DNA records for children.
It makes good sense on many different levels, least of which being worried about catching potential criminals in the future.

The police are doing your children a service. Having a DNA record is a much better way to keep track of people than an arbitrarily assigned government number. Regardless, one way or another the government should keep track of it's people.

I think identification by DNA is a fine way to proceed, especially if you've got nothing to hide.

All the fuss and muss for nothing, some people just love to be in a constant state of indignance.

They used to take your fingerprints, you know?

Now it is DNA and I ask you...

SO WHAT?
posted by : curious, 08 April 2008

Mass criminalization

Jenny Willcott, the Justice spokeswoman for the Liberal Democrats, who asked for the data, said it represented nothing less than the "mass criminalisation of our children".

Works for me, today's kids are a massive bunch of criminals.

It's not like anyone who gets convicted these days get any kind of serious punishment. Just an ASBO, and maybe 3 months in a government run hotel with Sky in your cell.
posted by : Gordon, 08 April 2008

...

1984 was not supposed to be an instruction manual.
posted by : Frank, 08 April 2008

DNA database

I think people are missing the point...after all attempts to create a national ID database failed...what's happening? a national ID database!

I mean, people *might* commit crimes, wouldn't it be better for the police to have their DNA data BEFORE they commit it?
The government seems to think this is in order.

This is for our protection, to protect us, from ourselves. After all there are many good reasons to keep a DNA database, for medical reasons, law enforcement, keeping tabs on criminals...

When a company makes a good product, that does not sell very well, it sometimes simply re-labels it. more often than not, sales increase.

So it's not a nation wide biometric ID card, it's a DNA database to protect us.

*blinks*

P.S.

It is my humble belief that an ID scheme would prove to have more positives than negatives, but that remains to be seen.
posted by : Someone Special, 08 April 2008

On record by proxy

Kids obviously inherit DNA from their parents. So does any know whether, if your Kid's DNA is on record, are you effectively on the record too? At least in the sense that they could narrowing down a list of suspects to the point they could demand DNA samples directly?
posted by : Etienne, 08 April 2008

@Etienne

That is a very good point.
posted by : LeeE, 08 April 2008

Let's pretend...

Quote from curious: "Why the fuss over DNA records for children."

I'll tell you why- It has all the marks of putting the innocent on the stand.

The "for instance" scenerios are numerous and are total forks from 1984:

You or a blood relative stay in a hotel that in some near term date has a drug deal, murder or rape, take place.

The authorites do a sweep for DNA evidence and do a trace against their database.

Suddenly you are (knowingly or not) part of an investigation you have had nothing to do with having to explain the existence of trace evidence belonging to you being at the scene of a crime.
---
As someone who would be innocent-
How exactly would you feel to have to do that explaining?

If the police car parked in your driveway, or the authorities came to your workplace, how would you like to explain that to friends and family?

Simply put you'd most likely be embarrased...and all because your DNA or that of a close relative matched a sample taken when you or they were a minor.

And now you're part of that new criminal record as well - cleared or not!
posted by : AKomie, 08 April 2008

hmmm...

"You or a blood relative stay in a hotel that in some near term date has a drug deal, murder or rape, take place."

Does the Inq recruit paranoid schizophrenics?
Or, are they just naturally drawn to the subject matter?

Although leaving your DNA in a hotel room a few days before a murder happens in that same hotel room happens quite often (?) - I think that the authorities would put some weight on the fact that DNA taken from a hotel room is FROM A HOTEL ROOM!

geesh.

Please go back to staring out your window and counting the number of times your neighbors come in and out of their homes. You are doing very important work there.
posted by : Ihave, 09 April 2008

DNA Database rocks!

oh god, I wondered how long before some screeming liberal started quoting 1984. The DNA database helps capture criminals, enough said. Everyone should be put on it then no one could bleat on about discrimination.
posted by : Stephen, 11 January 2008

yes

Well with cameras everywhere, a tracable mobile phone in everyones pocket this is really the next step.
posted by : PEE, 09 April 2008

Already had my DNA

Here is an interesting case that Mr Stuart Cundy has not publicised. Arresting an innocent for the murder of Bowman when he already had that person DNA: http://gizmonaut.net/images/kr_dna.jpg

I was unconvicted at the time of my arrest for murdering Sally Bowman but police had retained on file my DNA from an earlier arrest (drunk and disorderly). They also had my fingerprints showing up on the Livescan system, which links, to earlier arrest records. Despite this they kept me in custody for this awful crime for almost 36 hours and didn’t even bother to check!

Some more details of my case including my DNA and fingerprint records can be found here:
http://gizmonaut.net/blog/uk/dna_retention_of_unconvicted_people.html

Also a recent blog by my local MP Lynne Featherstone
http://www.lynnefeatherstone.org/2008/04/its-not-only-guilty-who-get-arrested.htm

Thanks all for taking the time to read

K Reynolds

posted by : Kevin Reynolds, 14 April 2008
IThound
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