Oh right....

So how many PS3s have been sold in Europe in the same period that have had a Blu-Ray film with it as I'll bet these discs are included in these figures, just another Sony fudge to make it seem their dodgy DRM infected format is popular.

Still won't bet on them...

What happens when people want to buy anything from Paramount, who are huge - and HD-DVD only?

Content is king, and it's early days yet.

Oliver.

And so...

...the propaganda war marches on...

By the time the war is over silver discs will be a thing of the past - we'll all be streaming our HD content on demand over the web for a fixed fee per month.

P.S. @The Suppliers - it'll only work on a fixed fee per month - you just try charging per view and see what happens! Remember the DiVX fiasco at the same time as DVD was taking off?

Stats All Folks

I can't be the only HD-DVD owner to buy discs from the US due to the lack of region coding and early availability, not to mention price.
I assume my sales show up as US sales.

Ironically...

... There are films available on HDDVD in Europe that aren't in the US because of studio exclusivity. For example, _Terminator 2_ is distributed by Fox and is not available on HDDVD in the US, but its European release can be imported and played.

Oh, did I mention there is no region coding in HDDVD? There is in Bluray.. But I'm sure nobody in Europe is interested in buying US HDDVDs and saving bank thanks to the crashing dollar.. Naw never happen...

Hmm.

Anyone notice that when Sony include all Blu-ray disc sales in it's totals, everyone cries FOUL..

Yet when Toshiba selectivley include/exclude PS3 from any press releases, that's perfectly OK.

For example, Toshiba decided to exclude PS3, when it wanted to talk about standalone player sales. But then when they wanted to talk about attach rates. BANG, PS3 gets included again.

Anyone that can't see that HD DVD is getting slaughtered in a very big way here, is bind, or being brainwashed by Microsoft/Toshiba.

Whilst it's a pain that Paramount have decided to not release on Blu-ray for 18 months, by then, HD DVD will be a long distant bad memory, much like Laserdisc and Betamax, and Paramount will be chomping at the bit to get onboard.

Infact Paramount must be secretly dying inside, wondering how many copies of Transformers they could have sold, had they resisted the $50,000,000 backhander and stayed neutral.

Don't be silly, people want Blu-Ray, face it.

@SNooPY: What are you talking about? Are you a Microsoft employee, perhaps ? Many people already figured out Bill Gates masterplan that was designed to make both BD and HD-DVD fail and then push online downloads of low quality DRM steal-from-your-wallet, gimme-your-creditcard "tricks". No one wants DRM already, and no one surely wants to keep paying to keep using what they bought. Ripping customers off is the worst practice ever and it's not capitalism. After BD and HD-DVD there will be Holographic discs 500GB/1TB are the next media format that will probably be introduced along with UHDV and H.265 in the 2012-2015 time frame.
@Brian: You might not like it but it's a simple fact that people prefer Blu-Ray discs, mainly because they provide higher video bitrates and then higher quality already. If BD becomes the de facto standard everyone hopes that 200GB 6-layer BD discs will get used for movies at very high bitrates.

Blah Blah Blah

Sounds a little suspect to me... I personally own and support HD-DVD as I have a personal dislike for Sony. And HD-DVD is backed by the pr0n industry and if you look back to Betamax vs VHS, VHS won out primarily from sponsorship from the adult film ndustry. It could happen again....

Wrong statistics

Blu Ray did not outsell HD DVD 2 to 1 in the US. I'm not sure where you are getting this crazy statistic.

Ye right

Brian,
Free PS3 with bigscreen sony tv's is the more likely reason why Blu-Ray is selling more discs

Aslong as bluray wins,

Everyone is talking about propaganda here, and I'm sure both sides are using it, but for once I think it's a good thing. The argument for bluray is the movie business atm, but from my point of view if i want a new storage medium with more space and, partially dependant on the specific make, more protection vs scratches, and more potential for future improvement I would say bluray hands down. Screw movie sales, I'm not interested, but if propaganda can cause it to become more popular, taking the price down for its use as storage media, then i'm glad.

Also why do people knock the ps3 as a bluray player? It's the best - the slower drive speed.

Blu-Ray Numbers Are Artificial

Of course the Blu-Ray numbers are higher : every PS3 customer MUST buy a Blu-Ray DVD if he wants the game on it . The true comparison should be the one in the Multimedia Content only . How many movies on Blu-Ray have been sold and compare that number with the HD-DVD numbers . Even there, there is an unbalanced advantage on the Blu-ray side as a PS3 owner would certainly be more inclined to buy a Blu-Ray movie when he wants to experience a High-Def film instead of buying a HD-DVD player next to the PS3 just to see that movie on HD-DVD .

So the comparison should be between how many movies on Blu-Ray and how many movies on HD-DVD have been sold there with Blu-Ray still having the "PS3 advantage" .

Also , there seems to be a "more politically correct" advantage on the HD-DVD side as there are quite some movies that have been published in the DVD/HD-DVD flip-side disks . A guy that already has 10 or 20 movies on these DVD/HD-DVD flipside disks will be more inclined to buy a HD-DVD player or a Blu-Ray player ? Many customers have opted to buy movies in this flip-side format and have postponed buying a player for later , when the prices come down . When these people will buy their own High-Def player , all the anal-ists will tear their hair out about being so wrong about the Blu-Ray victory .

Have a nice day !

Maybe I'm reading the article wrong...

... but is it saying they're only selling 1 million Blu-Ray films, but that jumps to 21 million if you include PS3 game sales? Isn't it cheating to try and claim your hi-def movie format is winning by including game sales? That's like including PS2 and Wii game sales with normal DVD movie figures.

Perhaps this is the latest attempt by the Blu-Ray camp to try and claim victory when the current situation is murky at best what with all the free discs being given away with each player sold.

Case in point, a friend just bought two HDTVs from a Sony Centre, that model happened to come with a free PS3 so he got 2 free consoles and 8 free Blu-Ray films (4 for each machine). I'd like to know how much promotions like that are skewing the figures.

Yeah!

Blu ray... yeah! GO GO!


Fits more data, sony manual says they are region free (really? that would be cool), menus that work while the film is playing (not sure if HD-DVD has the same? probably?)

To the poster talking about DRM:
I seriously doubt that there will be any difference in ripping HD-dvds or Blu rays, if you are inclined to do so.
There surely won't be any 'free copyable' format out there, and surely hackers will hack anything once it's common use...

get your heads out the Sand box

I cant believe people think HD DVD is even winning , sure they have sold more standalones. Blu Ray in the North american market has out sold HD DVD for the last 42 weeks when it comes to software and has pulled back some of the standalone market share HD DVD had, the USA it stands at 2:1 in favour of blu ray. The UK is more like 4:1 in favour of blu ray. some places in europe are up to about 7:1 in favour of blu ray. Then theres Japan, where HD DVD just hasnt got going at all.

Heck even tranformers could not turn the tide for HD DVD for one week.
So how exsactly is blu ray not dominating HD DVD?

Pull your heads out the sand, HD DVD is going the way of the dodo, its not even winning its strongest market, ie north America. Thats not say blu ray will succeed in capturing mass adoption either, but its doing alot better than HD DVD globaly.

Many more Blu-Rays

This Blu-Ray vs HD DVD stuff is so boring. No one ever weighs in on the fact that there are many more Blu-Ray titles. Of course more of them will sell...there's more choice. HD DVD supporters really need to get their asses in gear and get more titles out. It's not a fair battle without equal availability.

What happens when the war is over

I've been mainly staying away from the new formats due mainly to the cost of the discs. If everything I'm reading about everyone's comments is true then Sony will want to recoup all the cost of those 'free' BDs. Once they win, then I will lose at my local Circuit City with $30 movies and $24.99 movie Tuesday instead of $14.99 as it is now with DVDs.

I Don't Care.....

I don't care who wins really. I prefer the Blu-Ray format, but I just want one format. I'm not going to invest hundreds of dollars for one of them to go "oops....guess I lost".

And if you think streaming or IP high def will take over you're wrong. It'll become a profitable market, but not remove buying a movie from a store for a while. How you suppose to stream high def content to people with dial-up or 128k internet? You can't buy a 20Mb connection anywhere in the U.S. for sure.

Not the same war

@Rick, Porn did deside the VHS vs Beta war, that is true. But I doubt that will be the desiding factor here and now. Thanks to the internet being the number one source of pron these days.

@Jeremy, you may want to look up the statistics before making such claims. Blu-ray did sell 2 to 1 vs HD-Dvd between Jan07 and Sept07 per Home Media Research.

I for one would like to see Blu-ray win. It is overall a better format that has head room to grow. HD-DVD cannot do as many layers do to the limits of its diode. Blu-ray 6 layer 200GB vs HD-DVD 3 layer 51gb.

Layer for layer, Blu-ray is simply a better spec.

Check the financial news

Blue laser diodes are still in limited supply and everyone in the biz keeps track of how many there are.

Sony claims they sold more PS3s than they bought the parts to make.

In other words, they're lying. Again.

I don't like SONY..

It must be the most stupid reason to not like/support Blu Ray.

Because if you don't use SONY products, supported products and/or (partly) invented products your live will be quite more difficult because you would not use CD's, DVD's or Video8's to name just a few items that SONY supports and/or (partly) invented.

Let's face it: Blu Ray is 'winning the war' because they have the Playstation 3 and because they have the superior support from both the movie industry and the audio/video industry.

The only reason they haven't won yet is because the confusion of the specifications of the format, the high price of the players and because Paramount switched to HD DVD (after a pay off).

However, I do hope that HD DVD will be around long enough to make Region Free discs the standard.

And before you start: I do own a HD DVD player and some 30 movies...

blithering fools

who told you betmax is out, it's back and i'm buying one...listen to you lot..who gives a damn whether Bluray or HDDVD win when you've got uTorrent.......Stick ur DRM where the sun dont shine................. and fe ya information both BluRay and HDDVD support DRM they just aint swithched it on in HDDVD yet..Sony are just stupid and never learn and have it on from the word go the HD camp are just lying in wait for another Day!

Stick it to 'em vote with your feet.

Ye..Ha

No adds for HD-DVD

Sony is pushing their FULL-ON HD campaign to the limit in Australia. All major televised events are sponsored by SONY and advertising is rife with Blu-Ray and PS3. Major music outlets also stock a massive range of Blu-Ray titles. I am yet to see an add for HD-DVD or a title in any stockpile unless from an exclusive boutique audio store. If Toshi wants to win they need to stick their necks out a little...majority of people in Australia (although a small market) have not even heard of HD-DVD.

Ummm guys?

How are BlueRay game disks part of the format war? Thats like saying we sold 2 million cars and not mentioning 1 million were actually motorcycles. They both drive on the highway but are completely different.

HD's here but where's the content?

Yes I can find numerous HD DVD's in both formats here in Canada. Lets face it though, Bollywood is pumping out almost 100% crap with less than 1% being a decent movie. I can't see spending $500+ to get a player to see the same B.S. that I can see on DVD.

content is king

content is king and blu has it, not HD-DVD

Warner does both

HD-DVD has paramount group

Blu-Ray has Sony, Fox, Disney, MGM well its faster just to say everone thats not Paramount, Universal, Dreamworks
so you get a coice of 2 movie companies or all but one, not a hard choice
BLU-Ray is content king

Ironically...

Ironically... you may be right, but the oppisite is true i get paramount movies imported to me in the US, so that comment is pointless

Wrong statistics

Hey Wrong statistics are you looney

here you are

Week Ending Blu-Ray HD-DVD

11/18 66% 34%
11/11 65% 35%
11/04 71% 29%
10/28 55% 45%
10/21 51% 49%
10/14 71% 29%
10/07 68% 32%
09/30 54% 46%
09/23 63% 37%
09/16 61% 39%
09/09 60% 40%
09/02 56% 44%
08/26 68% 32%
08/19 71% 29%
08/12 66% 34%
08/05 62% 38%
07/29 66% 34%
07/22 74% 26%
07/15 61% 39%
07/08 66% 34%
07/01 65% 35%
06/24 70% 30%
06/17 64% 36%
06/10 66% 34%
06/03 61% 39%
05/27 69% 31%
05/20 58% 42%
05/13 62% 38%
05/06 60% 40%
04/29 71% 29%
04/22 52% 48%
04/15 61% 39%
04/08 62.4% 37.6%

And the real story is... NEITHER is SELLING !!

Oh, Ah a million discs, Big Frickin' deal !!

Did anyone else notice that BR games outstripped movies 26 to 1 ?

And Yipdee frickin' doo, 1 million to HD-DVD's 300-500K, wow, how many DVDs on a SINGLE release are sold.

The main news is NEITHER is selling well because they created uncertainty in the system.

I buy both because I'm savy enough to know that all my current disks will be rip-able by the time a winner is chosen and then I can burn them to the winning format.

But I agree with Snoopy, the longer this war drags on the less likely anyone is to adopt either of these optical disk standards versus downloadable or streaming content (including cable/satellite TV). I'm finding myself watching more HD content on satellite than either format, and as more movie channels and secialty channels arrive that's only bound to get worse.

jeremy...

the 2:1 figure from blu-ray vs HD-DVD is from Nielson (heard of them??)

totally independant and repsonsible for the tv ratings etc etc...

have a look at this for the ltatest weekly, year to date, adn overall figures, from an independant source.

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadgethd.com/media/2007/11/nielsen111807.png

i tell you the truth

sony is actually buying majority of their own blue ray movie titles and bundling them with its players/ps3 that is why it seem to be sell more but the actual fact sony is like a politition buying votes just before the election

What??

Many executives in the porn industry have already announced their support of blu-ray... I think HD-DVD supporters are just in denial... My recommendation is to sell those HD-DVD players on eBay before its not too late

the only thing that really matters

Technical benefit..
Here BD is better due to larger capacity

Region free:
people of either side claim "their" favorite format is region free.
I wonder what the real in-depth tech info on that is.
All I know is that the PS3 manual states that both games and BD films are not region locked, only old stuff like PS2 games and DVDs.

Its not important

Technical merits are not going to sell one format or another. Users just don't care one way or the other -- so long as the system works, that's all that matters. That's why the seriously inferior VHS was able to win over Betamax.

The basic problem with BluRay is that it doesn't fit the usage model of a typical household. BluRay players are also seriously overpriced. If Toshiba and their fellow conspirators can exploit this -- and the signs suggest they are -- then they will establish their format as the dominant one. Its got nothing to do with which system washes whiter, that's for geeks and enthusiasts, its what works in a typical household.

Wow...

BD outsells HD-DVD, and people say it is because of free PS3's and stuff.

What about the deeply-discounted, below cost, HD-DVD players?

Others say "Porn supports HD-DVD, and like VHS, will win". Uh, NO. Porn is widely available, often free, online. Purchases can be made much cheaper on regular DVD. HD Porn will help, but NOWHERE near what it did for VHS.

No matter how much BD outsells HD-DVD, the HD-DVD "fanboys" make up reasons why it is temporary or fake. Wake up, the market is speaking ALREADY.

Betamax?

It's funny to see it stated that HD-DVD will go the way of the Betamax. Wasn't that another failed Sony product? I bought a Betamax player with the 15ft corded remote. I wait until one of the technologies ceases production in this "Quote the stats in your favor" campaign.

BD & HDDVD

I have both and no reason to use one over the other. But I prefer blu-ray. I like to movie choices and the video (to me anyway) looks better. If I had to pick 1, I would stick with BD !

Pr0n is good

@Rick if you didnt know ViViD are supporting Blu-ray with releases such as ddebie does dallas, and the sequel to it, and othe pr0n companies are jumping on board

Broadband too narrow for streaming HD

We'll all be streaming HD content over the web? I'm not sure where you live, but I'm having a hard time getting more than 400KB/s from my 8mbps cable, often have trouble even getting enough bandwidth to stream Google Video, and can only move up to 15mbps. The nationwide standard for RoadRunner Turbo is 10mbps, and there are a lot of rural places that can't get anything other than slow satellite.

Eight years ago, I was getting ~250KB/s from 3/5mbps RoadRunner. At this rate, it'll be about 5 years before I can spend $80-$100/month on RoadRunner HD to get enough bandwidth, and probably another 20 before it's widely available (at which point people from Krakozhia will be disappointed by our internet access).

In 20 years (when proper broadband is in place), we'll be pushing for 4096x2160 or 4520x2540 content which will still require 4-5x the available bandwidth.

Of course, I could move to Hong Kong and my $40/month would get me all the bandwidth I need for streaming 4096x2160, and a 200x improvement in upload.

BTW, on a high-motion scene, HDTV looks worse than one of the old hand-held TV's because of their constipated bitrates. (does my rage against time warner show?)

betamax

when anyone tries to compare the Blu-Ray to Betamax, they are stupid. Betamax lost due to the porn industry. Betamax refused to sell porn and ended up paying for it in the end. However, that was back before the internet porn companies dominated. The only way to watch a porn video was by using a vcr. Now if you want to watch a porn, you double click and BAM. Who even owns physical porns anymore?

DVD+/-R/RW

Uhh.. why can't we all just get along guys?? If DVD+R and DVD-R could combine into a non-standard dual-writer??, why not Blu-Ray/HD-DVD?? Hell, LG already has a sub $300USD unit for the PC that plays/records both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD.. I just don't see what the big deal is.. I personally like Toshiba as a company more than Sony, but I'd rather see a dual-player standard than have to sit here for another 2 years while the studios fight over the "either/or" situation..

This is what it's going to come down to in the end.. Sony BluRay "WILL NOT ALLOW PRON TO BE PUT ON IT'S LICENSED DISKS" meaning that the only outlet for HD PRON will be the internet.. Not that there's anything wrong with that for some, but the adult industry won't stand for it and we'll forever be in a standards war...