Cable vendors could face lawsuits for P2P blocking
May be others like Comcast
WE'VE SEEN well informed speculation by industry insiders that Comcast is not the only cable broadband provider engaged in blocking Peer-to-Peer (P2P) uploads as a "network management" tactic to hold down its bandwidth costs and so increase profits.
Other cable broadband vendors are rumoured to also use Sandvine equipment, which is reportedly what Comcast uses to surreptitiously shut down P2P uploads on its network. Those other providers are said to include TimeWarner and Adelphia, and perhaps more.
If so, they might also end up facing possible future class-action lawsuits by customers or an organisation acting in the public interest, which was mentioned as a likely development at a Cnet bog yesterday.
In that account, the Electronic Frontier Foundation and others have tested and confirmed that Comcast is stealthily blocking some P2P uploads. Reportedly it's not only BitTorrent traffic that's affected, but also Gnutella and Lotus Notes, as well as possibly other P2P applications that use similar protocols.
So far, Comcast's PR department is sticking to their story that it doesn't block access to any websites or applications, including P2P services, but merely uses the latest technologies to manage its network. However, a Comcast Internet executive who was interviewed by Cnet was described as evasive and refused to deny that it spoofs P2P session shutdown packets.
A Comcast engineer reportedly told another source that "most users wouldn't even be able to detect the traffic-shaping activities they use without special equipment and training."
Apparently, Comcast -- and maybe other cable ISPs -- think that what their customers don't know, or might suspect but can't prove, won't hurt them... the cable ISPs, that is. They might be proven wrong.
Fred von Lohmann, an Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) attorney, said " based on [our] own testing, as well as what has been reported, it seems clear that Comcast's techniques are bad for its customers and bad for innovation generally."
As to the effectiveness of the practice and the harm it might cause, he said: "It's as though they are throwing a spanner in the works of the Internet, hoping that this will somehow reduce bandwidth usage overall."
There's some thought that such heavy handed network "management" might be unlawful. While the EFF is still studying the matter for now, von Lohmann said it has "already been contacted by attorneys who are considering legal action against Comcast."
Perhaps those lawyers should add TimeWarner and Adelphia, and perhaps other cable broadband providers, to their list of potential class action defendants. µ
L'INQ
Cnet
Comments
TimeWarner
They can definitely add TimeWarner to the list.My internet connection would invariably die within a couple hours of p2p use and a cable modem reset would be required to get it working again. So much for downloading torrents overnight.
However more recently I haven't been disconnected at all using p2p, so maybe they finally got their act together?
I also notice that my download speeds are severely crippled when I am using 100% of my upload bandwidth, but capping my upload speed in bittorrent to 85-90% of the nominal amount gives normal download rates.
Well...consider
...That most ISPs block port 25 relays to cut down on spam.Seems that would fall under the same category as well.
..
Crag: Your first problem sounds like too many connections killing your modem/router. By nature, p2p involves connecting to lots of different clients. This can kill some cheap & not so cheap routers. Most p2p programs have max connection settings, which can help.Secondly, using 100% of ul bandwidth will always kill dl transfers, as a certain amount of ul is needed to acknowledge packet receipt. Without this, you won't get as many packets because you cant tell the sender "Thanks, how about another one?"
Re: time Warner
using 100% of the upload speed will increase the latency of the data sent. this generates periods where no data is sent to reduce the latency again. (short version)Time Warner +1
Yep, I use bit for downloading demos, fan subs, and other such legal purposes. When I have 50+ connections on one torrent, and it's speed varies between only 1 and 50k it kinda makes you wonder... I have a 10Mbps line that tests at 9.5 at speedtest.net, what the hell am I paying for this for if I can't use it???P.S. YES I know how to work port forwarding.
Time Warner/Adelphia
They are one and the same, and I've noticed that it crashes while i'm trying to download the latest ubuntu, and that's where the problems lie. While they might be able to justify blocking pirate traffic they can't distinguish and are shutting down legitimate downloads.Time Warner
I don't seem to have any problems. I torrent for weeks and get tons of stuff off of newsgroups and not a single problem. Perhaps it is just different regional management? I do notice the upload bandwidth though at 50% upload, download speeds are halved by 50% but I don't think that its a huge problem.It happens in Canada too
Rogers does it here. But the law is different, and with the government we are stuck with (since the disloyal opposition was too chicken to vote non-confidence) tends to be pro-business and anti-consumer.A pox upon thy house Stephen Harper.
@Craig
Craig, that is expected behaviour. You need to cap upload speeds, since downloading data also uses upstream, you know, flow checks and CRC stuff.Another way...
If Spamcast acquired some social conscience and bothered to quell the gazillion hijacked bots on their network sending spam and hosting spam sites, they'd have plenty of bandwidth for all.to Craig
If you are using 100% of your upload bandwidth, your downloads will be affected, and that is normal. All tcp traffic (such as downloads) requires small acknowledgements and chatter in the other direction. If that stuff is delayed or lost, your downloads will decrease in speed so as to reduce that delay or loss. QOS enabled routers can be programmed to give priority to this type of thing so you maintain consistent speed by avoiding capacity crunches. ISPs do this too, to varying extents as well to provide decent ping rates.TimeWarner
I'm also a TWC customer. My experience comports with Craig's. Periodically, I've also been forced to shut my cable modem off after using P2P because my transfer rates would slow to a trickle (bps instead of kbps). Recently, however, I haven't had to do this so maybe TWC has refined their traffic shaping.Yesterday, I noticed that I retain the same IP even after the cable mode and router have been unplugged for over four hours. I plan on testing this observation further. Is TWC now assigning static IPs to residential customers in order to help the RIAA and the bush regime?
TimeWarner
I'm on TimeWarner/RoadRunner and have had no trouble using bit torrent via Azureus now or at anytime in the last year.Azureus does report that my upload speed is capped at about 40Kb/s, but I've never had my connection reset or any limit on download speed (I regularly top 200 or 300KB/s).